Frame Flex Again - Montana Owners Club

Montana3800RE · 05-25-2013, 06:28 PM

Received our trailer back from the dealer at the end of January this year after the Keystone Frame Flex Field Repair was done. We have about 2500 miles on it since we got it back. Went out in the shop where trailer is stored to do some routine maintance and was looking at the front wardrobe cabinets and they are comming apart again like before. I backed the Freightliner under the hitch, used a bottle jack to lift the trailer and there is 1 1/2" upward movement on the pin box before the landing gear raised up off the floor. So here we go again, 4 months in the shop before and now what are we going to be dealing with this time. There is alot of movement inside the closet as the staples are pulling out, moldings moving etc. what a pain this new trailer has been....

Desert RVer · 05-25-2013, 07:08 PM

I'm really sorry you are having to go through this again. We too had to go through two repair cycles to get ours repaired. I'm not sure it would have ever been repaired properly if we hadn't gotten Marcus Lemomis involved at Camping World the second time. The Camping World repair in Burlington, WA was a complete sham that was paid for by Montana. The second go around was paid for by Camping World as far as we know. We saw what Camping World in Mesa had to do to fix ours. Montana ought to be ashamed of building something that fragile.

Irlpguy · 05-26-2013, 05:12 AM

Ron I feel your pain....again.... As you and I have discussed a time or two, the so called repair was a joke and anyone who thinks otherwise has their head stuck in the sand. This is a prime example of a known problem where instead of doing whatever it takes to make this problem nonexistent, Keystone does their "field repair".

I bought my Montana as a means of enjoying my retirement, in my one year of ownership it has become a very expensive make work project for myself, not including the time, cost and frustration of having to deal with the local dealer and a manufacturer a couple of thousand miles away who's desk I cannot pound upon to demand some satisfaction.

Just as an offer to help ease your suffering I think I will bring you down a very big bottle of CC, perhaps that will give us both a different perspective.

1retired06 · 05-26-2013, 05:26 AM

Not good news. Almost sounds like a cosmetic repair was done on the interior without properly resolving the flex issue.

**DQDick** · 05-26-2013, 07:56 AM

Sorry to hear about your repeated issues. I don't understand how this two step process is so common. One would think they would be fixing it right the first time for their own sakes if nothing else.

Tom S. · 05-26-2013, 08:02 AM

I think the mistake here was having the dealer fix it. I know that shouldn't make a difference, but I've seen all kinds of hit and miss work from dealers, including the 'good ones'. Folks have taken their trailers back to the Montana service center and got them fixed in a matter of a couple days, and to my knowledge, never had another problem. If at all possible, I'd try to get it to them to fix.

HOOK · 05-26-2013, 08:58 AM

If you think you could survive until Sept, come to National Rally and have Keystone look at it.

Irlpguy · 05-26-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

quote:
Hook wrote:

If you think you could survive until Sept, come to National Rally and have Keystone look at it.

Larry: I know you are only trying to be helpful with that suggestion however I don't know where some of you folks live that you continually suggest bringing these major problems to the manufacturer from across the country. For me it would be a 5000 mile round trip at my cost, for Ron I would guess a 4000 mile trip.

I have a lot better suggestion, have Keystone send one of their wiz kids out to the nearest dealer to Ron with arrangements made for the unit to be there, have the genius inspect it and determine if the dealer can repair the unit as prescribed by said wiz kid. If not let Keystone haul it back to Indiana right after they have provided Ron with a brand new unit free of this problem.

These representatives can always make it out to the big sales events and someone from Keystone is always present here at our big RV shows, try and talk to one of them about a problem and see where that gets you.

Does anyone think those of us with these major problems want to spend our precious holiday time sitting at the Keystone repair depot or listening to the garbage that would be fed to you by the spokesman from Keystone. This is not why we bought a Montana and not how we want to spend our retirement.

If it were not for the fact the post would read like a book I would post here the many problems I have encountered and am still waiting to get resolved, there seems to be no end to the "fun" I am having.

For the moment I am finished this rant, but I have said only a small part of what I would be saying if I were standing on the opposite side of the desk of a big wig at Keystone.

Tom S. · 05-26-2013, 10:36 AM

I thought Keystone had a factory on the left coast?

Irlpguy · 05-26-2013, 10:59 AM

They do have a facility in Oregon, but I understand they do not do repairs on Montana's there. I would think if they were set up to perform the repairs there, then it would make sense for Ron to have been instructed to take his unit there in the first place. Even I could live with going to Oregon if I was ensured the problem would not reappear.

For us Tom this is the "right" coast it is only left if you live in the lower 48... however it is the "wet" coast no matter what area you are referencing from... Just to set the record straight. LOL

DHenry · 05-26-2013, 11:33 AM

They repaired my Montana there and recently repaired Carl Youngrens Big Sky in the Cougar factory at Pendleton, OR

Montana3800RE · 05-26-2013, 12:26 PM

When I had the first Frame Flex issue, I drove to Pendleton OR. to speak with a service rep as per advice from a repair facility in Pendleton that does work for Keystone, they did not want to talk with me and referred me to a dealership, what's up with that. When I took the trailer to a dealer, I requested to see the goose neck structure when they had the underside pulled apart, yes one small cracked weld, and way to light of material used as we all well know. Also as far as the Frame Flex, they re-glued the siding that came loose as per Keystone Field Repair, and installed screws every 6" down the side at the bottom edge of the siding where the molding would cover it up, as mentioned before, a patch job that some condemned me over saying, but look where I'm at now, a trailer in my opinion that is not safe to tow down the road, again

So here we go,I will call Keystone again on Tuesday to see what the next step is as it looks like I will be without the trailer for another 2-4 months, what a bunch of bull. I thought I was buying the cream of the crop, but I guess not, also as we all know Keystone dropped about 5 models they were building and one was mine, is this due to Keystones engineering screw up and all the warranty issues they are having?

Sorry for the rant but this has been a very frustrading experience for us as I do not have the time to be dealing with something that should not be happening in the first place, I got better things to do.......

1retired06 · 05-26-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Quote:

quote:
Hook wrote:

If you think you could survive until Sept, come to National Rally and have Keystone look at it.

Larry: I know you are only trying to be helpful with that suggestion however I don't know where some of you folks live that you continually suggest bringing these major problems to the manufacturer from across the country. For me it would be a 5000 mile round trip at my cost, for Ron I would guess a 4000 mile trip.

I have a lot better suggestion, have Keystone send one of their wiz kids out to the nearest dealer to Ron with arrangements made for the unit to be there, have the genius inspect it and determine if the dealer can repair the unit as prescribed by said wiz kid. If not let Keystone haul it back to Indiana right after they have provided Ron with a brand new unit free of this problem.

These representatives can always make it out to the big sales events and someone from Keystone is always present here at our big RV shows, try and talk to one of them about a problem and see where that gets you.

Does anyone think those of us with these major problems want to spend our precious holiday time sitting at the Keystone repair depot or listening to the garbage that would be fed to you by the spokesman from Keystone. This is not why we bought a Montana and not how we want to spend our retirement.

If it were not for the fact the post would read like a book I would post here the many problems I have encountered and am still waiting to get resolved, there seems to be no end to the "fun" I am having.

For the moment I am finished this rant, but I have said only a small part of what I would be saying if I were standing on the opposite side of the desk of a big wig at Keystone.

Pretty well says it all!

HOOK · 05-26-2013, 02:41 PM

Forgive my poor suggestion. I truly hope you find someone to help. It is about 20 hours from my home in NC to Goshen. We should arrive there in our new Big Sky. It's a great rally with lots of friends we have made across this great country. The larger portion from this great forum. Well worth the effort.
When my closet wall started popping staples and bowing, one of our techs suggested that we cut 1/4 inch off the bottom by laying a 1/4 inch thick piece of wood on the closet floor and using a vibrating saw. Worked like a champ, no more troubles.
Not saying that you don't have more trouble, than I did. Ours is a 2010, 3455sa.

Chip · 05-26-2013, 03:34 PM

Our Montana had the Keystone Field Repair done last fall at a camping world. They had it for 3 months.

But here we are again sitting at the Service Center "Camp Keystone", on Memorial Weekend, waiting for our appointment on Tuesday mourning at 7:AM to repair this frame flex. Again.

In all fairness the Field Repair did stop the forward movement but did nothing to fix the movement by the landing gear.

Irlpguy · 05-26-2013, 03:49 PM

Larry it was not a poor suggestion at all if you live at least somewhere close to Indiana. It seems some are able to have their problems dealt with at the Pendleton Oregon plant and yet Ron was told to take his problem to a dealer. Like Ron I question why that happens. Warranty repairs should not cost the owner an arm and a leg to be performed and should be done with the least inconvenience to the owner as possible.

Your help and suggestions are most welcome and helpful Larry, in this instance it just is not a realistic option.

The flex "field repair" performed on Ron's Monty and mine were cosmetic at best, they in no way addressed the issue of frame flex and only masked what was happening. Re-gluing the outer siding to the aluminum frame does not address the fact the front part of the frame has considerable flex and the frame is weak and poorly engineered. It is not the sidewall that is flexing it is the frame forward of the bulkhead and it's minimal support.

The dealer applied field repair caused other problems with my bedroom slide that I will "never" take back to the dealer to have repaired. I will fix some of these things myself with the knowledge it will be done properly and not happen again.

As I said before I could live with having to take my unit to Oregon if it meant I would not have any more issues, I would bet my last dollar there would be no such guarantee.

Irlpguy · 05-26-2013, 04:31 PM

Drew I tried to send you a PM but it was returned. If you PM me I can respond with what I had sent originally. Thanks.

**Carl n Susan** · 05-26-2013, 05:00 PM

The dealer is Montana's eyes and ears. That is why they want you to take the rig to them. IMHO that is why a *GOOD* dealer is essential. They should also be your advocate.

I took my rig to the dealer. Once Montana saw the pictures, they told the dealer to not repair anything (I had a list of 14 warranty repairs in addition to the frame flex) they would fix it all at Pendleton. Montana built a completely new left wall and put it on a semi to Pendleton. They then dispatched a transporter who picked up the rig at the dealer and towed it to Pendleton to meet up with the new wall. Four months later the rig was returned to me.

Having things fixed at Pendleton is no panacea. It is a Cougar plant so Montana models are foreign to them. They were supposed to fix all my warranty issues but didn't. What they did do was subpar. Replacement sink leaked, bedroom door wouldn't close due to header incorrectly re-attached, broken closet was was not corrected, and the paint (whole left side had to be painted) job had 15 major flaws. They even applied the wrong Big Sky decal after painting the rig (there are two different colored decals depending on the paint scheme). It took two more trip to the dealer (another 6 weeks on non-use) to get it all fixed.

I have just over 2K miles on it since the repair and there is just a hint of flex at the stress relief. Just enough to crack the caulk. The head of service in Goshen says some movement is normal. There was no movement initially after I purchased it or after it was repaired. But once movement starts it doesn't stop (at least it didn't last time).

Should I have another frame flex problem, I expect Montana to fix it. And I will insist it be done at Goshen after they tow it there and back. My dealer fixed all of my warranty issues eventually. They also have done 5 of the "Field Repairs" to other customer's rigs. I really need to check with them and see how they are holding up. The dealer is pretty good but I am sure frame flex is better addressed by the factory guys.

Unfortunately we love the floor plan or else we would have dumped this POS and moved on by now. There is nothing else in the Montana line (since the killed off all of out favorite models) that we like so the next rig won't be a Montana.

Desert RVer · 05-26-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

I think the mistake here was having the dealer fix it. I know that shouldn't make a difference, but I've seen all kinds of hit and miss work from dealers, including the 'good ones'. Folks have taken their trailers back to the Montana service center and got them fixed in a matter of a couple days, and to my knowledge, never had another problem. If at all possible, I'd try to get it to them to fix.

Since the factory is over a 4,000 mile round trip for us your advice doesn't hit the mark very well.

Irlpguy · 05-26-2013, 06:37 PM

Thank you for posting Carl, I know you had posted before as I remember the replacement of the whole one side, however I did not know of all the other issues. I have changed my mind about having anything done at the Pendleton plant.

A couple of weeks ago I identified an issue with one of my axles to my dealer, he did absolutely nothing and I did not even hear back from him, even after sending in pictures. After a couple of weeks of hearing nothing I took it upon myself to contact Dexter as my Keystone one year warranty was over in February. They have been great so far and have authorized the replacement of the rear axle, I since have found the front axle suffers the same problem and should also be replaced. I am awaiting word from Dexter on that regard. I will "NOT" have the dealer replace the axles, my rig will go to an independent repair facility and I will monitor the work performed. I won't even mention the issues with the wet bolts and grease nipples on my number one Montana, that I have personally dealt with and documented with pictures.

After the dealer did the "field repair" we went on a trip to Arizona, the slides were put in and out a total of 10 times to and from Yuma, upon return when getting ready to clean up after the trip I put the slides out and to my amazement the bedroom slide went out but the bed did not. The bed frame had pulled completely away from the slide wall, the rollers were both loose and had turned partially to one side. I documented all of this with pictures and rather than take it to the dealer who had caused the problem in the first place, (notwithstanding the crappy design and work done at the factory). I basically rebuilt the bed frame and fastened it to the wall in a different and more secure manner. I also beefed up the area of the rollers and they will now never swivel again. Keystone should be paying me for all I have done.

Keystone has refused to replace my microwave/convection oven because I did not advise them of the problem prior to the expiration of the one year warranty, even though this happened while still under warranty but we were in Arizona at the time. I am told by the dealer to try and get replacement from the microwave manufacturer or if I am real nice he might contact someone at Keystone and see what he can do. Still waiting to hear from the dealer on that issue.

I had to replace two of my dump valve pulls. Oh no they were not covered under warranty but were considered a maintenance issue by the dealer.

I am so fed up and tired of this ongoing battle, it has completely spoiled what we anticipated our venture into retirement would be in our new Montana.

I am very fortunate that I am able to do most repairs myself and that I have woodworking tools and mechanical tools and a wire feed welder to assist me, however I am 71 years old and cannot do what I once could do, nor do I want to.

I am well aware of problems with other manufacturers, but go ahead ask me if I would buy another Montana. The Montana is lovely on the inside and out, but underneath the glitz it is garbage. They could not give me another one for free because I do not want to go through this all over again.

Two rants on the same thread, things are bad... think I will write a book, let's see: what to call my book - "Take me back to Indiana" Aw heck that sounds too much like a country western song, will have to think about that. Wait though, a song and a book, heck I might make a fortune and be able to buy a truly number one RV.

Gotta inject some humor into my misfortune folks or I would truly be a wreck.

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