Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2006, 03:18 PM   #41
bsmeaton
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
Interesting quotes from Trailer Life 2007 Tow guide -

"The GVWR figures are neither guidelines nor estimates; they are limits, and there are numerous valid reasons the manufacturer arrived at the figures given. If you think these figures are "close enough" or have a fudge-factor percentage built in, think again. Your warranty coverage-and your safety-may be at risk"

and from Trailer Life January 07 RV clinic & performance:

Q - "...I put helper springs on the truck (F250) and when I hitch up they are in contact, but are not being bent yet. Can I assume that the helper springs raised my GVWR and I am now not over limit?"

A - "In a word , "NO". GVWR is the maximum amount that the vehicle is rated to safely weigh when fully loaded......This rating is set by the manufacturer based on the the original configuration as it leaves the factory and is therefore NOT changed by adding heavier springs or other components"
 
bsmeaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2006, 06:55 PM   #42
MAMalody
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
Hmmm. My scale said I could not drop the trailer in the yard for a TV reweight. I need to come to your yard or hope they keep letting us lower our front jacks.
MAMalody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 01:57 AM   #43
Wrenchtraveller
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
Well it is interesting to note that because I travel heavy, my 2600 pound pin weight leaves me 120 pounds of wiggle room, no more. I have a gas powered 11200 GVWR SRW F350. I end up at 11080 GVW.

If I did have a 3300 pound pin weight...........another 700 pounds.
If I did have a PSD.............................another 500 pounds.
I do the math and this adds up to 1200 pounds minus my 120 pounds of wiggle rooom equals 1080 pounds.
These are the hard facts , I would be 1080 pounds over my GVWR. If my truck was a SRW F250
with a 10000 pound GVWR , I would be 2,280 pounds overweight.
Well over my comfort range.
Wrenchtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 08:20 AM   #44
Cat320
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,695
M.O.C. #5751
Phill,

Using your numbers your pin weight should be 2480...total weight of the truck with rig compared to total weight of the truck without rig...if I've got the numbers right. 140 lbs of pin weight is on the front axle.

You cannot add the two axle ratings to come up with your GVWR. When combined, the ratings are above the GVWR. This is to give you some flexibility when loading...you can load each axle to it's capacity, but the total should equal no more than the GVWR of your truck (9200).

As for Chevy's web site/brochures and their cargo capacities. It is very misleading and IMHO, deceiving. That cargo capacity of 3342 is for a stripped down 6.0L standard cab, 4 x 2, gasser. For your truck, deduct 700 for the D/A, plus a couple of hundred pounds for the 4 x 4, the long bed, and the extended cab. I think you'll find your cargo capacity around 23 - 2400. Check the sticker on the rear door...the Tire and Loading Sticker...it will have your cargo weight capability for this truck to the nearest one pound.
Cat320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 10:10 AM   #45
DarMar
Montana Master
 
DarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 3,944
M.O.C. #1034
Been there, done that, the Chevy brochure specs and website specs are completely useless. Yes, when I had my chevy d/a short box I too was let down the garden path to believe I had a cargo capacity of some 3300 lbs. In actual fact when scaled and the math done it was only 2420lbs. When I calculated the pin weight of our 03/2955 loaded it was 2652lbs. very similar to the specs of Don & Donna are reporting above.
__________________
Darwin & Maureen DeBackere
Minnedosa, Manitoba, Canada
2011/3500/Silverado/4x4/DRW/Duramax
2017/3721RL/Legacy Pkg./Pressure-Pro
DarMar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 10:22 AM   #46
indy roadrunner
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brownsburg
Posts: 1,186
M.O.C. #5634
Cat I found the tire sticker and it says the combined cargo weight not to exceed 2516. So you say with the 140 lbs transferred to the front axles my cargo is actually 2480. Lets see 2516 - 2480 hmm 36 lbs how much did you say a case of beer weighed?
indy roadrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 11:04 AM   #47
Cat320
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,695
M.O.C. #5751
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by indy roadrunner

Cat I found the tire sticker and it says the combined cargo weight not to exceed 2516. So you say with the 140 lbs transferred to the front axles my cargo is actually 2480. Lets see 2516 - 2480 hmm 36 lbs how much did you say a case of beer weighed?
That's a big case of beer, must be tall boys!

Of course your 'cargo' weight is not just pin weight...you have to add all the other stuff we like to carry in our trucks...like passengers, 5er hitch, real cargo (beer, etc), tools, rhino liner, tonneau cover, etc. If you want more info on Chevys or D/As, PM me...I can tell you more than you ever want to know.
Cat320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 12:33 PM   #48
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Don, I'm over gvwr but not as much as you surmise from your estimates. I've published the weights in this forum for both the 3295/F250 and the 3400/F250.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 11:42 AM   #49
Connorsmom
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Owendale (Bad Axe)
Posts: 380
M.O.C. #6592
Well, after reading all of this information...I've come to two conclusions.

#1. I sure wish I knew about this web site before ordering my TV, I would have just gone with the what I have but a 3500 instead of 2500.
#2. I may just park the trailer up at the campground I'm a member at, and just not do any traveling at all. Of course, I don't know what I'm gonna do in the fall when the campground closes and I have nowhere to live.

I was looking forward to fulltiming and this being the best time of my life...now it's turning into anything but:-( Jan

Connorsmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 01:27 PM   #50
Wrenchtraveller
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
Connorsmom, if you pack light and drive careful, you will probably be safer than most RVs on the road. You have a new truck with good brakes and new tires.
The people that know they are overweight and treat it seriously are not the dangerous ones. The dangerous ones are the people that have no idea they are overweight and keep adding stuff that is fine in a stick house but is much too heavy for RV use. I met a fullimer two years ago that was surprized to find his Fiver was over 18000 pounds.
His 7.3 diesel pulled it just fine but can you imagine going down an 8% grade and losing your trailer brakes with 18000 pounds behind an F250 Ford. That would be scary.
Watching your weight keeps you healthy, body and RV. Take care and enjoy yourself.
Wrenchtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 05:38 AM   #51
rickety
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Caldwell
Posts: 825
M.O.C. #4855
This is the first time I have jumped in on the 3/4ton HD issue and the weights.
I just spent a good amount of time researching the differences in the Chevy 2500HD dura/allison combo and the 3500 dura/allison combo.
The 3/4 HD and the one ton rear axles are the same. the only difference is that the 1 ton has an extra leaf spring to upgrade load capacity. One can accomplish the same upgrade capacity wse by adding he extra leaf spring or airbags and gas over shocks, such as bilsteins.
I am going to do this this coming spring. I love my 04 Duramax, and this little upgrade will make me fully cpable for carrying the 3400, 3500 or the 3675.

on edit: the brakes are the same size also!!! front and rear!!!
rickety is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 06:32 AM   #52
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
This does not take a rocket scientist to figure out guys All you have to do is look at the correct numbers as CAT320 suggest and add them up.. Adding things to the truck does not increase the RATED capacity of the truck.It has been said many times before..do as you wish as long as you are aware of the facts and are willing to take the risk involved what ever they may be ..if any. I pulled a camper for several years with a underrated truck, Air bags, air shocks the whole 9 yards and got away with it. The simple reason was I was stuck with the truck and could not afford a bigger one so made it as safe as I could still knowing that I was under rated. Not this time. The 1 ton dually is a pain in the butt to drive around..folks have pet names for their truck I call ours that @**%$##@)) truck...but it exceeds ALL the numbers for the largest and heavest Montana...
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 08:54 AM   #53
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
As Rickety described for the GM, the same is true on the Fords. The only difference is in the extra leaf on the springs. We compensate with airbags. They do not change the mfr ratings (nothing changes that). It does change the ability of the rear suspension to keep the truck level. If you are not overweight by an unreasonable amount then you'll probably be fine. Just be aware you are over. There are many, many of us in the same boat as you and when was the last time you heard of an accident because of being overweight a little? No doubt somewhere there has been an accident but with many thousands of rv'ers in that same boat you'd think if it's much of a problem we'd be hearing about it. I prefer being within the ratings but I'm not going to buy a medium duty truck to do it. I'm doing it with a 3/4 ton that has higher ratings than most of the one ton single rear wheel trucks on the road. Just be aware and don't let it keep you from enjoying yourself. We've done downhills (and uphill) to 14%, 2 miles long, and it's not a problem. But, then, we've never lost the trailer brakes. If we did it would be very hairy whether your tow vehicle is 3/4 ton or 1 ton. A medium duty truck might handle it but a MDT doesn't fit the rest of our lifestyle.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 09:20 AM   #54
wswebster
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Three Rivers
Posts: 266
M.O.C. #1249
Rickety, you are absolutely right. They axles and brakes are the same, I know because I make these axles. As you can see from my signiture we tow our 3400 with and 8.1 with Allison trans. Still glad I have a gas engine paid $1.84 for fuel today. We've towed from MI to Glacier Natl. park and had no problems pulled like a dream, can't wait till spring gets here and we can go camping. Stacy
wswebster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 10:53 AM   #55
William H. Collier
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Machesney Park
Posts: 534
M.O.C. #798
I have ordered a 08 Ford F250,6.4, super cab, SRW,long bed, and we are seriously looking at a new Big Sky. I could have ordered any truck I wanted to however I prefer to have a truck that rides a little better empty and still do the job. According to the 07 specs the 250 is rated at 2800lbs load capacity, the 350 is 4100lbs. The only difference, as Steve said, is the addition of a extra leaf spring in the rear, which makes it ride a lot worse when empty. I use Timbrens on my current 250, my extra spring, and they only come in to play when hooked up to the Monty and I plan on using them on my new 250. There is absolutely NO sacrifice in saftey as everything else is the same, running gear, brakes ect. As I said the only difference is a better ride when empty.
Bill
William H. Collier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 01:14 PM   #56
Chip
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Friendship, Maine
Posts: 483
M.O.C. #6338
I have been struggling with this issue since we bought our Montana.
What is the axle weight ratings for a Chev 3500? Gross weight rating is 9900 I think.

__________________

2012 Big Sky 3400, now an SOB 5th wheel
2007 Montana 3075 previously
2015 GMC 3500 Dually
Chip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 01:40 PM   #57
Wrenchtraveller
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
Please remember that the F350 SRW come with 18" tires that have a higher weight rating than the F250 17" wheels so if you really want your F250 to have the same ability as the F350 make sure you get the 18" tires.

And if up in Canada and our friendly Queen's Cowboys known as the RCMP pull you over for being overweight, they go by the sticker in the door. Nothing else. Tell them that your F250 is really an F350. They will smile and think you are a trying to be funny.

IMHO the 3400 should really be pulled by a dually and I am glad so many MOCers agree with me on that.
Wrenchtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 01:55 PM   #58
Montana Sky
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
Chip,
You are right, the 3500 SRW GVWR is 9,900 lbs.

I am going to bite on this one. The 3400RL CAN be towed with a 2500HD and be within all weight ratings of the truck. I have been on the CAT scales 3 different times so I know it can be done. You will have to pay attention to what you load into the coach and where you load it, but it can be done.
Montana Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 02:20 PM   #59
William H. Collier
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Machesney Park
Posts: 534
M.O.C. #798
Don, here in the states law enforcement have no reason to look at that door sticker as those numbers mean nothing to them. There are no laws that use those numbers for any kind of enforcement. They are manufactures information numbers only.
Bill
William H. Collier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2007, 02:28 PM   #60
Cat320
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,695
M.O.C. #5751
GVWR cannot be changed by springs, shocks or any other gizmos. You can say what you want about axles, brakes, tires, drive trains and anything else, but the label on the rear door pillar is the only one that matters. Talk to your insurance guy and attorney, ask them what the ramifications are if you are in an 'at fault' accident and are knowingly over weight. This is all very simple, you guys are making it hard...check that sticker it will tell you what you can carry...that's all there is to it. My sticker says 4257.

Cat320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new tow vehicle jimkottke Tow Vehicles & Towing 10 08-31-2012 08:27 AM
New Tow Vehicle billc1949 Tow Vehicles & Towing 24 07-25-2012 07:35 AM
New Tow Vehicle! Bill-N-Donna Tow Vehicles & Towing 17 10-17-2008 11:29 AM
Tow Vehicle for 3400RL otto0813 Tow Vehicles & Towing 24 05-26-2008 01:30 PM
Tow Vehicle for a 2008 3400RL muddflapp Tow Vehicles & Towing 21 08-26-2007 05:05 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.