Is 700 lbs really important? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

CountryGuy · 03-29-2006, 02:04 AM

Right on gals, no problem driving it.

As we all know, this has been discussed a couple of times on MOC, those interested can use that wonderful ole search button.

Don't take it through drive thrus, I always have to go potty anyway, have to go inside.

Park it out, take up two spots, not a problem, park out a ways, need the exercise anyway.

I personally think ole Big Butt is kinda purty.

Numbers talk, and insurance agents and lawyers read forums, maybe they have figured out what numbers should be put together as far as trucks and rigs. I dunno, but think we must have our heads in the sand, if we think they ain't gonna figure this out folks.

We live on a dirt road, it gets bumpy, we just deal with the rough ride over the road cause we like/love where we live. We do the same thing with Big Butt, but Al tells me he might try taking the air pressure down a bit next time we are longtiming here in Mission. Whatever, I can deal with the ride I have, on the xpressway, I think it is pretty good.

Numbers talk, do your math, buy your truck, take your chances. Read your insurance policies. Do your thing.

See ya on the road.

dsprik · 03-29-2006, 06:40 AM

Rich, if the numbers were overloaded, and they wrote the policy anyway, they could not deny a claim. They would be legally stuck.

Now, if they didn't ask for the numbers, and something happened, then they could claim that they did not know before they wrote the policy that you would be over.

If they write the policy with the numbers you give them, you will have to read the fine print to see where their self imposed claim limits were. Sounds like all need to read every last word of their policies... or better yet... have your attorney go through it before you sign. If necessary, have your attorney (and I know we're talking money here - biut weren't we anyway?) draw up a rider that THEY sign with your conditions. If they won't do that, that would concern me.

Dean A Van Peursem · 03-29-2006, 05:06 PM

The key 5th wheel specification for the towing vehicle other than "Towing Capacity" is "Pay Load". I didn't fully understand this until recently. I've only been looking at "Towing Capacity" and that can be very misleading when it comes to towing a 5th wheel with a 3/4 ton truck vs a 1 ton truck with dually's. .

Dean A Van Peursem · 03-29-2006, 05:10 PM

I wonder relative to the insurers responsibility. I contacted GMAC today and all they said they were going to ask for is the VIN numbers of the TV and the 5th wheel RV. Now if they accept that and insure it given those two numbers are they not legally bound no matter what the GVWR's are on the two vehicles? They have a responsibility to know what those two VIN's specs are, don't they? The customer has provided the exact numbers for the vehicles. It is the Insurer's responsibility to do their due diligence. My guess is that logic would stand up legally if a dispute arose.

Montana Sky · 03-29-2006, 06:40 PM

When I added my new Montana to my policy back in 2004, the insurance company asked the following.
1. what was the listed msrp of the vehicle
2. if financed who through and how long of a term
3. what was the GVWR of the coach and what was the UVWR of the coach
4. what truck was I going to tow with, I told them my chevy which was already insured w/ them.
5. did I want personal effects coverage? If so at what value?
6. was I going to "fulltime"? if not where would the coach be garaged?

That was it, within 3 mins I had my coach added to my policy and a new declaration was sent to my home address. I have been with this insurance company for 13 years, they have been very good to me. Hopefully that will contiue and I will not be calling them to use them in the future.

richfaa · 03-30-2006, 12:55 AM

You see my new experience was much the same as Montana Sky's, However Dean's with GMAC was different. One company asked the "weight" question, the other did not. I would be asking questions and not taking anything for granted. Of course Insurance companies love to make money, that's what they are in business for so My guess is that there will be a "RV endorsement" addressing the weight issue, for a price of course, or a waiver on the issue.. One other thing..Your local agent MAY not know all the answers or the correct ones. mine was not aware, it was the "company" that asked for the info. This is a important enough issue to do some extra homework one.

Wrenchtraveller · 03-30-2006, 01:40 AM

It has become very important to stay within your legal GVWR and GCWR.

People pulling big Montanas with 3/4 ton pickups might be legal on their GCWR but they are most likeley over their GVWR. They are gambling with voiding their warranty, having no accident insurance, and being fined in many States and Provinces. Why take the chance?

If you can afford a new Montana, you can afford a vehicle that can legally haul it.

In 05 Ford bumped up the GVWR big time. My 05 F350 SRW has an 11200 GVWR and will be perfectly legal with my 06 2955 RL. In the past I have been as guilty as anyone by being overloaded and back in 95 we had a brand new F250 with a Slide in Camper. The truck was 8800 GVWR and I went on a Cat scale in California and we weighed 11200 pounds. I was 2400 pounds overweight. The truck felt fine but when we got home I sold the Slide in and went back to a fifth wheel to stay legal.

All the Pick up makers will be raising the payloads of their trucks very soon because this whole overweight issue is starting to be enforced in more places so what you might get away with in one State, you may not in another.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL CHOOSING A TV.

dsprik · 03-30-2006, 03:57 AM

I am curious... is there any MOCer's that have actually had a claim denied because of an overweight issue? I'm sure there are plenty of "stories" out there, but I would like personal experiences, as these other stories tend to get diluted. (eg. "My best friend's second cousin's 3rd ex-wife knew this guy (who she ended up running away with) who said he read something in the paper once that said...") While that may be a very reliable source of info, I would like to avoid them if possible.

How does an ins co determine if you were overweight when a claim occurred? Maybe in a serious, fatal accident? Do the police bring out scales and weight all the pieces, occupants, gear, and estimate the fuel/water weights (hundreds of pounds in many cases) in the 5ver/tv?

Otherwise, say for instance that I blew a tire and ripped some of my fiberglass off of my Montana. Does the adjuster coming running out to quickly weigh everything? Hopefully you don't remove anything from the 5ver - or pickup (including wife and kids and gear). Or do the police weigh everything for their police report? Do you just tell the adjuster, "Oh yeah, I was overweight"?

Correct me please if I am wrong (has happened before...), but isn't every Montana dry weight legally able to be pulled by any dry weight 3/4 HD (big three)? The dry weights and the GVWRs of both the tv and the 5ver are the only weights that the ins co has on file - unless you are supposed to call in everytime you leave the house?

How does the ins co get the actual load figure to detemine if they have grounds to deny the claim?

Don't get me wrong - it is a danger to be overweight. It is also dangerous to be on the highway with any vehicle that only has one headlight, no tailights at night, not enough tread on their tires on wet roads, speeding, "too fast for conditions" (even with a GCVW of under the ratings), etc. Are claims denied there, too? Maybe they should be, if they aren't.

Also, is it possible that ins agents collect weight ratings info soley as a way to determine what class of ins you may be in? In other words, your coverage/premiums may have to be different at different weights. Their request for this info may be a very benign attempt to just get you in the proper coverage, and not to see if they can "trap" you into getting a claim denied. Just thoughts running through my mind.

Thanks in advance. I really am curious about this.

It's obvious that different ins cos/agent ask for diffent info. Sounds like you need to be the best protection for you, and make sure you know what reaction your ins co will have in all conceivable possibilites.

Kathi · 03-30-2006, 05:20 AM

With AAA in Cal. they just came out to the house and took a picture of the coach, a picture of the sticker inside the cabinet and a copy of the paperwork. That was it. No questions, no nothing...When we moved up here to Montana we turned in a claim with them for some damage to the roof that had been done back in September (we are with a different co. up here) and they are taking care of it. No questions etc. But we have been with AAA for over 25 years, maybe that is the reason, I don't know...

richfaa · 03-30-2006, 05:21 AM

Dave. Don't know the answers to many of those questions.Also don't know have first hand knowledge of anyone who has ever been weighed while in a RV, Has had insurance denied or has been in any kind of lawsuit concerning being overweight. I am sure the insurance industry will offer a solution to the issue that will increase their profit line and our premiums.I am concerned with our safety.Don't want to kill or injure ourselves and don't want to be involved in a accident that would cause a lawsuit.We do have a good friend who is a Philadelphia Lawyer, that is a lawyer in Philadelphia, and neither he or his law firm has ever had a case that involved a Rv and overweight.RV's yes, operating in a careless and reckless manner resulting in injury or death and says he that description would fit the overweight RV/TV.His free legal advise is to take all measures to prevent being involved in a lawsuit that may concern overweight issues. Each of us will make our own decision..I made mine..I got a big truck and a camper that it will pull within legal limits..to each their own.

sreigle · 03-31-2006, 08:43 AM

700 lbs isn't going to make a noticeable difference. If it does, then you are pushing it either way. Your truck is a strong tower. I certainly wouldn't worry about 700 lbs. We're towing 14,360 behind our F250. (that weight is within the tow and gcwr ratings).

As for dually. All I can offer is my experience. I find absolutely no stability issues with a single rear wheel. None. And we have been in some very strong sidewinds. The only reason I can see to go dually is if you need the payload capacity (pinweight). In the past two weeks we have been on two very scenic 4x4 roads we could not have done with a dually. And there have been places we've been that are signed 'no duallies.' One is in Big Bend National Park at the Hot Springs area. I do not want to deal with the parking issues, drive thrus (I have seen many a dually cannot do), etc. HOWEVER, if I felt I needed more payload capacity or if I were just more comfortable with a dually, then I'd have a dually. At the moment I don't have the need. This is purely my opinion. There are many who disagree with me as you already know.

By the way, my insurance agent says they cannot deny a claim because I overloaded the truck. They could, however, cancel me after paying the claim, for that reason. However, we are within tow and gcwr ratings so it is not an issue for us.

dsprik · 03-31-2006, 02:27 PM

Steve, you're the Wizard. No one disagrees with you...

I still seems to me that it would be difficult for a insurance company to determine with any certainty at all that someone was over loaded. Unless....... remember this guy? (This will be fun for you new members...)

The ins co may have an easy time with this one...

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/wmv/cartrailor.wmv

Wonder what that Festiva's GCVWR is?

*On Edit~ That wasn't a Mountaineer TT, was it??? Nope, sorry about that...

richfaa · 03-31-2006, 02:47 PM

Overweight is overweight,,you pulls your camper..you takes your chances. I'm done.

Sweetfire · 03-31-2006, 02:49 PM

I agree, it would be pretty hard to prove unless you were obviously pulling too much trailer, such as a 45ft 5'er with a 1/2 ton PU. On the other hand those rating figures must have been based on something and I prefer to stay within those numbers.

mallardjusted · 03-31-2006, 03:33 PM

Just as a footnote, when we got our 2004 3255RL we towed it with a F-250HD SC 4x4 PSD. It towed fine, and I was within tow weight limits. But after reading some articles, I realized I was well over PAYLOAD ratings. In otherwords, with pin weight of our FW, 2 or 3 people in the truck, actual hitch weight, dog, misc items in the truck, etc, we were probably 400 to 600 lbs over the rated payload capacity of 2500 lbs. Now we've got a 2005 F-350HD CC 4x4 PSD(Single rear wheels), and we are well within the payload ratings of about 4400 lbs. I certainly feel better about being within the specifications!

dsprik · 03-31-2006, 03:45 PM

I agree. Just trying to figure what any ins co would be looking for in an accident/claim situation... maybe nothing... I do NOT promote being overweight (vehicles - not talking about me, personally). I apologize if people thought I was. I feel have a legitmate question. Maybe I'm not expressing my self well.

Let me try it this way:

If I am involved in some accident for some reason, while towing, what is one of the first things that an adjuster will try to look at to determine if you may be overweight??? I'll bet you ANYTHING that these guys are NOT dumb, and they KNOW there is a moderate percentage of towables on North American highways that are over their weight ratings. Any adjuster that works on RV claims that is worth his salt will have that on his mind before even gets to the site. Period. It is one of the first I would look for, if I was and adjuster trying to do my job, in ANY RV claim.

Question: What would an adjuster look for/ask about to try to determine this fact? He is probably already fully aware the driver will try to lie to him. He has to have some tool(s) in his arnsenal to figure whether there may be a weight problem. Like Steve R said, they may not deny the claim, but they sure might cancel the policy. They would have to make that determination in any case.

Hope I was better this time...

I know they don't just say, "Well, it looks like you could have been overweight. Claim denied." Can they???

mallardjusted · 03-31-2006, 04:04 PM

I guess I was less worried about what an insurance adjuster would do, but more worried about my legal responsibilities (lawsuits!!!!).

dsprik · 03-31-2006, 04:28 PM

That's a danger too, Matt. But now you're looking at an ATTORNEY trying to prove something instead of the adjuster. How does Attorney get his "slam-dunk" case on someone??? I know a Judge will never go for, "I'm pretty sure he was overweight..." He will definitely want hard evidence.

I think what I'm getting here is pretty much, "I'm not sure how an insurance co would figure that for sure, but I'm not taking the chance." Definitely a smart move. But I'm still not getting an answer. "It doesn't matter" doesn't make it. I see a scenario where an ins co/attorney TRIES to make a case on this - even if you were under ALL of your weights. What would they try to fabricate? You will need to defend yourself. You need to know ahead of time to be able to block them from even having a chance of attempting this. Not that any insurance companies, or someone's attorney might try to go over the line, strictly for money...

CountryGuy · 04-01-2006, 01:03 AM

Dave, having never had to deal with such a scenerio, and hope that I never do, and before my coffee this early AM, here are some thoughts.

CAT Scales, we drive over them so we know what we weigh. Well, some of us do.

We weigh our truck with the tanks full, mom and dad and kiddies or pups or what ever, loaded. Then we go hook up Montana and on the way to some wonderful destination, we again stop at the CAT scales, after we fill the fuel tanks, and with mom and dad and kiddies or pups loaded same as when we did our weighing solo. Ya know, they give you a little slip of paper when they weigh ya, what are you gonna do with yours? Save it for future insurance/legal problems?? Maybe????

OKKKK, now, at some time Mr. and Mrs. Camper have a bad accident. Will the agents weigh the unit?? Who knows, but, if the accident is gonna cost them mega bucks, they very well may consider this. SOOOOOOO, are there places to take scrap metal to be weighed?? Me thinks so.

Now, I am gonna go get that coffee, not sure if this post helps, confuses, or maybe is just way off base.

richfaa · 04-01-2006, 01:44 AM

The dated weight scale receipt is a very good Idea.we will do that with our new set up. We never did that with our old Tv and TT because we were always 400 to 700 LBs overweight and that would have been the rope around our neck. We are not thinking anything other than Safety and lawsuits and to do everything we can to prevent accidents and lawsuits.

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