Synthetic oils

[trukdoc]

Mabe this can help. LOL.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

expert
5 entries found for expert.
To select an entry, click on it.
expert[1,adjective]expert[2,noun]expert[3,intransitive verb]efficiency expertexpert system

Main Entry: 1ex·pert
Pronunciation: 'ek-"sp&rt, ik-'
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from
Latin expertus, from past participle of experiri
1 obsolete : EXPERIENCED
2 : having, involving, or displaying special skill or knowledge derived from training or experience

So what is an expert opinion and most of all what do YOU consider an expert.
Lets take experts in weight loss! Do any of know their frontside from their backside. Ice age is comeing....No No No Global warming!
When it comes to selling products the term "Expert" becomes very thin.
So when it comes to what you do to your TV. You are the owner, so it comes down to "Anything You want".
Rick
Quote" a fool and his money are soon Parted"

[Dave e Victoria]

I remember another definition we used to use in industry

expert: has been drip under pressure

Dave

[dsprik]

quote:Originally posted by Dave e Victoria

I remember another definition we used to use in industry

expert: has been drip under pressure

Dave

I believe your quotes were around "has been", right Dave? I like that quote.

[BigAl52]

I have no quarrel with truckdoc. He is entilted to his expert opinion as I am mine. Sreigle I wish you could show me were it says you must change your oil every 5000 miles to keep your warranty in tact. go to the Ford service desk and have them sign a piece of paper that says if you use extende drains it will void your warranty. I will bet they won't sign it. Richfaa i work for a local trucking company here in Colo. It's a family owned business. I have been ther 20 years. I have been driving better than 30 years. We change the oil on all of the trucks that have the new Cummins 600 motor in them every 35000 miles. We get good engine life and have no major problems. I am not an expert on this I only know what has worked for me. I have used Amsoil since 1978 and I like Bear Hunter change all my vehicles toys, and yard equipment over to it when it comes time to change. I use it in extended drains and use there filters. Never had a problem. I am not trying to sell anyone the product. I just know what has worked for me and all of my family. Al

[pud2]

I use rotella-t leaving one quart out and replacing the one quart with one quart of lucas oil additive. Also use syn. bleng in tranny and use lucas fuel additive to fuel. Lucas is a great product.

[steves]

I use the real thing (Rotella T) and change it every 5,000 miles. I have not heard of anybody having an engine failures on any of the big 3 diesels because of engine oil when they have been maintained properly. On transmissions - I have heard of failures and perhaps the synthetics help here? I suspect the transmission that have failed were due more to over heating and lack of maintenance on changing fluid and filters. I have my truck on the following maintenance schedule:

Engine old and Filter - every 5,000 miles
Fuel Filter - every 10,000 miles
Trans Fluid - every 15,000 miles
Trans Filter- every 30,000 miles

I think you can use the real or synthetic and have a long happy life from your TV as long as you do the required maintenance and don't abuse the vehicle. Do what makes you comfortable - its your vehicle and its your money!

[WildBigBill]

Synthetics are good but expensive, if you change your oil and filter regulary there is no need for the extra expense.

[precisiongizmo]

As a Nuebee on this forum I found this interchange so interesting I burned an hour reading all the threads.
Very informative and valuable information.
By the way my old Ford F350 long bed 7.3L diesel with a Banks Turbo has 135,000 miles using Rotilla T on a ~3K mile cycle and it purrrrrs like a kitten. I might change the tranny fluid to synthetic because of heating concerns when towing our 2006 3500RL over mountain passes. Tranny temp. gage can get up to 230 degrees F. Any thoughts??
Thanks again for the informative debate about synthetic VS: dino oils.

Bob & Norse

2006 Monty 3500RL
1990 Ford F350 7.3L Lariat Banks Turbo 4X4 crew cab 8'box

[BigAl52]

Synthetics are more expensive than regular oil. However contrary to what some believe they can be run longer because the heat and contaminents from combustion do not effect synthetics like they do dino that has additives in it to make the dino oil do what it is supposed to do. Synthetics also flow better than dino does so you are able to filter the oil at a finer rate than dino. Todays engines run cleaner than they did years ago when carburators were used. Remember when you changed spark plugs every 15 to 25000 miles? Now they run 120000 without being changed. GM is currently working on extending drain intervals to 20000 and even 30000 miles. They say that this will be acheived by using synthetic oils. This was recently stated by there chemical lab. Pennzoil-Quaker State owns Jiffy Lube, so why wouldn't they want you to change your oil every 3 to 5000 miles. Cummins engine Co. came to the owner of the company that I work for and said change the oil in the new motors ever 35000 miles. So thats what we do. Saves the company alot of money with 50 trucks on the road. A local friend of mine who is a mechanic has a fella who uses the synthetic ATF is his transmission and loves it because it lowers his temp in the tranny by about 50 degress. Al

[sreigle]

Richfaa, does your Ford manual say 3,000 miles for your V10 for oil changes? My '99 F350 V10 manual said 5,000 for severe service such as towing and 7500 otherwise. Yours is newer so maybe they changed it.

BigAl, same as above on my Ford diesel. The manual says 5000 for oil changes in severe usage. The warranty does not directly say it's void if I change the oil later but it does say something to the effect about maintaining warranty requires meeting maintenance requirements. I would consider the chart for oil changes to be one of the things they'd point to. On the other hand, I doubt they'd ask unless they suspected a failure due to dirty oil.

[BigAl52]

Steve and to the gentleman above 135000 miles on a diesel engine is just broke in. Those manuals were also set up on assumption that most people were using petroleum oil. Which I do agree that when using that type of oil it is necessary to change the oil every 5000 miles. The oil itself as was stated by trucdoc does not wear out but the additives that are blended in the oil are dimished from contaminents and combustion. These contaminents that effect dino oil don't effect the synthetic the same way because the additives that are present in the dino oil are not used in syn oil. It's also possible to filter the syn oil finer because of it's consistance compared to dino. Put a can of dino out when its 20 below and a can on syn next to it. Pour point on the syn I use is 40 below. Just some more food for thought AL

[trukdoc]

However the engine still produces the same byproducts from combustion. The question is do you keep his in your engine 5k or 15K. I have a e-mail into Ford and waiting for a reply. I will share the outcome.

[BigAl52]

Rick
With all due respect to you an your opinion we can go back and forth with these claims however you will not find that Ford, Dodge, or Chevy will sign any kind of a statement that will void a warranty for using synthetic at extended drains. I know you know who the API is. They just awarded Amsoil a special award for filter technology. New filter fiber is called nano fiber. Filters are made by Wix. These filters are able to continue to filter for extended drains. Like I have stated in the past the contaminents will stay in suspension longer and do not affect the synthetic oil like they do the dino. You are probably not going to change the way you do things and I know I won't change what I do. I have a Dodge 2003 Cummins. I change the oil once a year. Done that since 1978 on every vehicle, toy or any other piece of equipment that I own. Saved me alot of money on oil and I have never had any problems. I'd rather support an American oil company when I can than give anymore money to the Saudis than I need to. Take Care Al

[dsprik]

quote:Originally posted by BigAl52

I'd rather support an American oil company when I can than give anymore money to the Saudis than I need to. Take Care Al

I think you're going to get a lot of agreement on that statement. Although... I'm not real keen on siding with the American oil companies right now (and I was an oilfield engineer for a long time).

At the very best, they have done a HORRIBLE job on their PR over their jaw-dropping NET profits (not gross income) this past year, while many Americans took a huge hit to their budget, and suffered greatly, due to the pump prices this past year. Congress couldn't even get a satisfactory answer from them.

And the voluntary full page ad in the Wall Street Journal, that several of the Majors got together on - to try and explain these profits, didn't seem to appease very many consumers, either.

[BigAl52]

Dave
My reference to an American oil company should have been better stated. Amsoil is an American Co. that it's primary profit is from synthetic oil and it's sale of that synthetic oil. Company is based in Superior, Wis. They use very little oil imported from the mideast. The only true petroleum that is used at all is the blend of syn. with petro in some of there blended oil. I am not sure how much they even sell of the blend. But a majority of there products are bought right here in the U.S. Al

[RADHAZJOE]

Something I do not understand. My Manual says change engine oil every 300 Hours. At and average 30 mph, that is 9000 miles. Did I miss something?

[kwbosch]

I ran across this link in one of my design publications. It could be of interest to the extended oil change crowd.

The puraDYN® Bypass Oil Filtration System

http://www.puradyn.com/

I'm going to switch to synthetic oil soon in my truck (38,000 miles) but I'll probably stay with the Cummins recommended change interval (7500 miles).

Ken

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by RADHAZJOE

Something I do not understand. My Manual says change engine oil every 300 Hours. At and average 30 mph, that is 9000 miles. Did I miss something?

I don't currently have a GM but I think my comment/question transcends brands. My truck has 46,800 miles on it and 1053 engine hours. If I were to change oil at 300 hours, that would be 3.51 oil changes so far. Dividing that 3.51 into 46,800 miles, I would be doing an oil change at every 13,333.33 miles. That seems a bit excessive to me, on non-synthetic anyhow. Or do you have synthetic in yours?

[trukdoc]

I have been doing my homework. It’s a bit long but informative. The question is does an engine greatly benefit from an expensive oil like Amsoil or is a quality oil like Chevrons Delo 400 15w40 or equivalent Shells Rotella do your engine well. I am not saying Amsoil is a bad product, it is a very good oil. It certainly wont do harm to your engine. My biggest dispute with it is the claim that you can extend your oil drain interval and not void your warranty and not harm your engine. Here is a good site for information, http://www.automotivedigest.com/prin...ticlesID=13603
In this measurements and terms like micron comes up. So you understand what is being said I will try to explain. . A micron is .000039 or thirty nine millionths of an inch. A human hair is approximately 100 microns. A micron in relation to a thousandths of a inch is like driving a matchbox car 1:43 scale down a full scale interstate. Typically a crank to bearing clearance is about .003 or three thousands of an inch. A piece of soot at .03 micron going through a crank oil clearance would be similar to driving that matchbox car.
I e-mailed Ford and they would not respond back with an e-mail. So I had a sit down with my service manager at Greenville Ford and we went through several bulletins and finally said that if there was any engine damage and the oil drain guidelines were not followed “A Warranty claim would be denied” the only extension allowed would be if you use the Motorcraft synthetic oil you could go out to 7500 miles on a oil change. Amsoil claims they will go to legal bat for you…. But how long will your truck sit?
Three of the main web sites I did my research at was the Chevron, Universal Lubricants and of coarse Amsoils web site. Amsoils web site has a very good article on aftermarket additives. I recommend reading it.
The main area I would like to get into is extended drains. As I stated earlier the OEM sets a drain interval with the knowledge of the byproducts of combustion and rate of saturation. Any oil can only hold so much. Clean oil is like starting out in your matchbox car on a lonely country road headed for the city in rush hour being dirty oil. The longer your oil is in your engine the more congestion there is. Remember soot is .03 micron even Amsoil’s 1 micron filter will not take soot out. A quality filter is typically 10 Microns. I was told by a specialists at Universal oil that filtration under 4 Micron is not advised due to stripping off the additive package. I asked if the additives were different for synthetic oil or petro based oil. I was told it is basically the same package. The difference is in the base oil. The purity of the base oil is what makes the difference. In fact some of the petro based oils are as good as synthetic oil. I know that ruffled a few feathers. But that is the truth. And the statement probably does not include Amsoil. But at your local parts house on the oil shelf there are several brands of so called synthetic oil. Because of a decision made by the government a petro based oil can be called synthetic. Buyer beware.
A good oil has all you need, and all use additives like the thickening agent that makes oil a multigrade, dispersant that keeps soot from sticking together, oxidation inhibitor, antiwear, corrosion inhibitor, and defoamer. Even Amsoil uses an additive package that works with their formulation as does Delo and all other oils. I have e-mailed Amsoil twice for technical information and have received no reply. For a oil to label itself in the current API rating of CI4 Plus. It goes through a rigorous testing to prove their oil meets the standard. An engine manufacturer like Cat builds an engine to meet the federal guidelines for emissions and the needs of their customers. The specs are then published and the oil companies go to work to meet the standard.
Amsoil has a filter that claims 1 micron. A particle of soot is about .03 Micron which will pass through a 1 micron filter. But yet we still have the issue with the additives. But a 10 micron filter is more than adequate.
Someone in this thread pointed to a truck fleet that gets over a million miles on their engines. I fail to see what point was made being that all the big truck engines (Class8) will get that if properly maintained.
In Amsoil”s website someone bragged how they changed their oil to their product and went from 15MPG to 20.5 MPG. Think about this for one moment….that is over a 36% increase in mileage. Sorry I do not believe it. I had a work truck with a Ford 460 gasser that got 8 MPG. Needless to say I tried a lot of things. To include synthetics. I went to about 8.5 MPG. I did not get a miraculous increase in mileage!
There is a heat comparison by Amsoil that shows their product against two other oils. OK Amsoil wins. But Amsoil will not tell me what temperature this was done at. My point is long before the Dino oil turned to tar, your heads were cracked, cylinders galled and probably seized up. Pourability in cold weather with Amsoil is –51 deg. F. and Delo –22 deg. F. Not many places on earth this is an issue.
And if all this is not enough. Amsoil’s website indicates on diesel non EGR engines extended drains up to 2 times the OEM recommendation or 1 year.
And Listen up!!! Diesel EGR engines recommend OEM drain intervals or oil analysis. Amsoil DOES NOT recommend extended drains on engines with an EGR valve, which is everything after Oct. 2002.
As I stated before I do recommend Synthetic oil in rear ends, transmissions and wheel hubs. But due to problems with the combustion process I maintain that regular oil changes are better in the engine.
I do not gain anything by my statement, I am not selling anything. Just understand both sides of the issue. Amsoil is a good product, I just feel some of the claims are exaggerated or simply just far more than what is needed.
And one last point, for arguments sake. Say you are able to get 600K out of your engine due to some fantastic product. Will the truck still be able to roll?
Just because someone makes a claim…..does not mean it is true.

http://www.universallubes.com/
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ame.htm
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...prodspecs.shtm
http://www.automotivedigest.com/prin...ticlesID=13603

[Montana Sky]

Rick,
Wow, thanks for the great information. Just makes me stick with my current schedule of changing my oil every 3,000 miles using traditional oil. In my opinion $49 for an oil change is cheap compared to paying for a new diesel motor or having to buy a new truck. But different strokes for different folks, that is what I am going to stick with. Thanks again, Great post.