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09-27-2012, 12:06 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: merced
Posts: 983
M.O.C. #6171
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Frame flex
I know there has been lots of talk about frameflex in the past, but I wanted to know if I might have a problem coming or is this with in normal range.
I noticed on the last trip it seemed that the pin box move up more than I remember it moving in the past. There are no cracks or seperartions that I can find in the trailer, but when weight is put on the pin box it moves up about 1/4 inch. and probaly moves 3/8 to 1/2 when traveling.
This might have always moved and I just didn't notice it.
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09-27-2012, 12:44 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Benson
Posts: 3,121
M.O.C. #1658
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Your pin box is going to flex some when you put a load on it and I have been told by Monatana that this is within the normal range of flex
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09-27-2012, 04:01 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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Darrel told me, at the Rally, to look for separation at the seals on the front cap or damage in the closet area in the cap. If the seals are tight and nothings coming apart inside, he said it should be alright. So much talk of frame flex going around I got nervous also.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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09-27-2012, 04:08 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pahrump
Posts: 2,523
M.O.C. #1081
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My pin box does the same thing. Almost seems like it is moving about an 1 inch or so up and down. I have also noticed that some of the staples are coming out in the closet on the right side of the wall between the closet and the cabinet. Is this what you meant by damage?
Scott
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09-28-2012, 12:32 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mesa az
Posts: 2,988
M.O.C. #5651
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Packerfan - MIght be bad news for you. My Monty started flexing and the wall inside the closet was bowing and cracking. Then it completely cracked thru. Also noticed at this time that the pin box would move at least an inch up and down when towing. So I checked it out in the closet, raised the trailer off the hitch and watched the bow disappear (or appear - i forget which was okay and which bad).
Most welds were broken. Cost about $1800 to fix and another $100 to patch up the closet.
By the way, the dealer mentioned that air bags could cause this to get bad or occur in the first place. The bags raise the truck up but sort of solidify it so there is not as much bounce. Which makes the pin box go thud thud instead of bounce bounce. For what it's worth.
Good luck.
__________________
Tom and Gail
2013 Mountaineer 362
2012 Silverado 2500
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09-28-2012, 03:33 AM
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#6
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hanover
Posts: 335
M.O.C. #9710
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I had the exact same thing happen as twindman but Keystone covered the repair as it was less that a year old and well within warranty. No air bags on our F350 so the I suppose they can add to the problem but in my opinion the frame is under built. On average I would guess we're at least 1000 lbs lighter than gross carrying capacity. They welded in some additional gussets and welded the cross beams together where needed.
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09-28-2012, 07:27 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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About 1/4" movement is considered normal. That's according to the repair shop where we had ours repaired a couple years ago.
Orv
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09-28-2012, 08:45 AM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Walla Walla
Posts: 141
M.O.C. #12821
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We have the same thing going on in our closet with the staples comming out and the wood paneling cracking. We have had the problems at the 7th week of ownership on the way home from Az. with frame flex and Keystone says it is within tollerance, I have alway's said yes there is a problem so in October it will be going back in for warranty work near the Keystone plant in Pendleton Or. for the flex issue and other things...........Ron
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09-28-2012, 02:34 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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On the factory tour Montana indicated they are going to a 12 inch frame.maybe that will put the frame flex issue to rest????? However I got a 10 inch frame on my new 2013.
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09-28-2012, 03:08 PM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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That was my thought too. Good idea, but too late for us.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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09-28-2012, 03:34 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pahrump
Posts: 2,523
M.O.C. #1081
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Thanks for the good news. When we head down to Tenessee we may have to take a detour to the factory. Does anyone know if you can just stop in at the factory in Indiana and have them look at it?
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09-29-2012, 03:31 AM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Adirondack
Posts: 367
M.O.C. #10754
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I cant see how the 12" I beam will have any affect on the frame flex issue. The flex is all up in the front end of the unit near the hitch. The I beam is nowhere near it.
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09-29-2012, 06:26 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Osmond
Posts: 673
M.O.C. #3160
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I agree with Lee F. we have a diff. Keystone product, but can't say the name I was told. But we have a 12 inch frame and we also have some flex about 1/4.
__________________
LARRY & LAVONNE HUMMEL
2018 3811MS
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09-29-2012, 08:00 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Lee F.
I cant see how the 12" I beam will have any affect on the frame flex issue. The flex is all up in the front end of the unit near the hitch. The I beam is nowhere near it.
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I would tend to agree, unless the 10 inch frame didn't provide enough support for the front mounted structure and 12 inch does.
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09-29-2012, 11:50 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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The weakest part of the frame in a 5th wheel is from the bedroom forward. That's where our frame flex appeared and where the correction had to be made. When we had it corrected it has held for five years with no sign of flexing. Another MOCer didn't have the same results as we did using the same repair shop and for that I feel really bad. This repair shop is in the business of building trucks like the big Peterbilts and Macks so it isn't that they don't know what they're doing. I still recommend them to anyone who desires frame flex repair.
Orv
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09-30-2012, 02:43 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Davison
Posts: 786
M.O.C. #12331
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I noticed the cracking as well as the staples pulling on the right lower closet panel on our new unit. Also we have noticed a noise when walking into the bedroom that sounds like the sheet metal under the nose is buckling. I have looked at the welds that can be seen-they aren't award winning welds, but not cracked that I can see. Is this a problem that should go back to the factory to be repaired or can the local dealer handle it?
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09-30-2012, 04:47 PM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Walla Walla
Posts: 141
M.O.C. #12821
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When we hooked up today to leave the CG, I went into the front closet while my wife lowered the 5ver on the truck and you would not believe how much the paneling in the closet bows and all the poping going on. I have left messages with a Keystone repair shop in Pendleton Or, to get this thing in. As mentioned before, this all started around the 7th week of ownership down in Az. while heading home and had it in before to the dealear we bought it from for 2 months, yes 2 months nd Keystone said it was within tollerence, (I DON"T THINK SO) not when the front cabinetry is comming appart and the siding is shifting up and down under the bedroom slide.......Ron
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10-01-2012, 02:47 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 4,200
M.O.C. #11401
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Our pin box has about the same movement. We even had a bow in the closet wall. We trimmed about 1/4 inch off the bottom and all is well. They have to flex some. Larry
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10-01-2012, 08:51 AM
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#19
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,482
M.O.C. #4831
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To Montana3800RE: our 3700 is essentially the same as yours. The front closet wall also started bowing and pulling staples after a few months. Keystone says they were (apparently still are) using a thin piece of paneling in order to save weight. As some flex is "normal" (their words not mine) they said they are replacing the vertical wall with a thicker panel and trimming a bit off the bottom. Another member (Papabeav) had the same issue and was told the same thing.
I haven't seen the results yet (they did a lot more than that and I am out of town) so I can't tell you exactly what was done. Don't accept "it is normal". They (Keystone) know there is a problem with the cabinet walls.
I advise you get to your dealer and have them contact Montana. There are two different support groups in Goshen. One works only with customers and the other works exclusively with dealers. A dealer has to have each and every warranty repair preapproved by Montana. Consequently the dealer service group is much more knowledgeable. There also seems to be a turn over problem in the customer service side. I have had four different reps working on my problem(s). In the last three months I talk to a rep and the next time I call I find they have left and a new one is assigned. Fortunately, my dealer is my advocate with the Dealer service part of the organization and they are the ones getting the repairs completed.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB
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10-07-2012, 06:17 AM
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#20
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Walla Walla
Posts: 141
M.O.C. #12821
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Carl n Susan
To Montana3800RE: our 3700 is essentially the same as yours. The front closet wall also started bowing and pulling staples after a few months. Keystone says they were (apparently still are) using a thin piece of paneling in order to save weight. As some flex is "normal" (their words not mine) they said they are replacing the vertical wall with a thicker panel and trimming a bit off the bottom. Another member (Papabeav) had the same issue and was told the same thing.
I haven't seen the results yet (they did a lot more than that and I am out of town) so I can't tell you exactly what was done. Don't accept "it is normal". They (Keystone) know there is a problem with the cabinet walls.
I advise you get to your dealer and have them contact Montana. There are two different support groups in Goshen. One works only with customers and the other works exclusively with dealers. A dealer has to have each and every warranty repair preapproved by Montana. Consequently the dealer service group is much more knowledgeable. There also seems to be a turn over problem in the customer service side. I have had four different reps working on my problem(s). In the last three months I talk to a rep and the next time I call I find they have left and a new one is assigned. Fortunately, my dealer is my advocate with the Dealer service part of the organization and they are the ones getting the repairs completed.
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Thanks for the info, I do intend to stay on top of it as much as possible. The repair shop it is going to is very close to a Keystone and Lippert plant and I have requested a Keystone rep to be there when I take it in. I know folks are not in there trailer when they hook it up to the TV, but I thought what the heck maybe I can tell where all the creaking was coming from and wow alot there is and also movement, that's what I want the rep to look at and he can not tell me that is within tolerance. I do not want this trailer back until it is fixed correctly and able to tow it safely down the road............Ron
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