Diesel Fuel Conditioner - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

Montana Sky · 11-10-2006, 12:29 PM

Got a call back from GM today. The gal I have been talking with is a Customer Service rep, has no specific knowledge on the Duramax. She called today to let me know she is awaiting an answer from the "Duramax experts" at GM. At the moment she recommended I continue to use the additive until she has a defenite answer. Hoping to have a call on Monday or Tuesday with an updated answer.

JimF · 11-10-2006, 03:06 PM

Did a little research last night and came up with the following, this is a quote for a government website.

"On June 1st, 2006, U.S. refiners were required to produce 80% of their annual output as ULSD (15-ppm), and petroleum marketers and retailers were required to label diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and kerosone pumps with EPA-authorized language disclosing fuel type and sulfur content. Other requirements effective June 1st, 2006, including EPA-authorized language on Product Transfer Documents and sulfur-content testing standards, are designed to prevent misfueling, contamination by higher-sulfur fuels and liability issues. The EPA deadline for industry compliance to a 15 ppm sulfur content was originally set for July 15, 2006 for distribution terminals, and by September 1, 2006 for retail. But on November 8, 2005, was extended by 45 days to September 1, 2006 for terminals and October 15, 2006 for retail. In California, the extension was not granted and will be following the original schedule.

Sulfur is not a lubricant, however the process used to reduce the Sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005. [3]

There may also be a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%. This decrease in energy content may result in reduced fuel economy. To achieve the sulfur requirements for the new fuel standards, diesel manufacturers include an additive to keep the fuel flowing smoothly, and to prevent engine damage. A relatively cheap lubricious additive is biodiesel.

ULSD will run in any engine designed for the ASTM D-975 diesel fuels."

A little more research reveals that the GM, Ford and Dodge should run a premium diesel fuel at 45 centane, most pump fuel is 40, the new fuel is in the high 30's. To get some performance and fuel economy back you need to run a centane booster.

Now, after all that the Chevron site is advertising that they have the new additives "available", doesn't really sound like it's already in there per government directive

Sorry about the length of this..

Montana Sky · 11-10-2006, 03:33 PM

Jim,
There is some great information here, thank you for posting. I guess I will be going back to the dealership and stocking up on more fuel conditioner. I guess the additional cost of the additive will just be coughed up as part of the diesel ownership.

Charlie · 11-11-2006, 01:40 AM

JimF-

Thanks for posting this article with this quote:

"Sulfur is not a lubricant, however the process used to reduce the Sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear."

This is one of the greatest misconceptions that most diesel owners have about the operation of their vehicle. In another post a couple weeks back I made the same statement that there is no lubricity in sulfur and the lubricity of engine parts is achieved by the oiling properties in the diesel itself.

Sulphur removal from diesel is generally achieved by processing the diesel through a hydrotreater reactor at elevated temperatures. There is no change to the property of the diesel hydrocarbon molecule, only a partial recovery of vapors that will be converted to kerosene. This where the cetane number is reduced.

A preferred cetane number should be in the range of 43-45. If the cetane number is important to users (which it should be), an additive would be the solution. I do not know the chemicals that are used in the additives, but I suspect it something such as toluene which has an octane rating of somewhere near 200. Octane is the quickest way to get a cetane boost.

richfaa · 11-11-2006, 02:13 AM

So all this seems to be adding up to..Increased fuel cost , Decreased performance and MPG and the increased cost of additives to maybe regain the losses not to mention the increased cost, at this time unknown, to the cost of the diesel motor itself.None of this sounds consumer friendly.

JimF · 11-11-2006, 04:43 AM

Lord man, if it was consumer friendly we would be in another country... One thing in Centane boost, I have lost almost 3 MPH with the new fuel. A centain boost cost about $5 a tank full. But you figure 3 mpg over a fillup (3x30) = 90miles. 90 miles at 10mpg is 9 gallons @ 2.50 gallon equals $22.50 a savings of 17.50. Makes sense to me to add boost. Of course your calculation on your TV will depend on your mph, cost, etc.

indy roadrunner · 11-11-2006, 06:13 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

So all this seems to be adding up to..Increased fuel cost , Decreased performance and MPG and the increased cost of additives to maybe regain the losses not to mention the increased cost, at this time unknown, to the cost of the diesel motor itself.None of this sounds consumer friendly.

Hey Rich - it may not be consumer friendly but according to the Govnt you are breathing better. Hardy Har har har - cough cough man I need some more second hand smoke.

richfaa · 11-11-2006, 08:43 AM

Oh yea..My big ole bus smalls better and does not belch out all that nasty black smoke..well not as much anyhow.If you can regain
the lost MPG that is a good thing ..But...we are using that stuff and and we see no change in MPg..Oh well lets just wait till some good data is in..time will tell.Our decision to buy or not to buy a diesel is still at least a year off.

JimF · 11-11-2006, 10:57 AM

I just found Power Service Centane boot with lubricants for 7.50 (including tax), enough to treat 100 gallons, or .075 cents per gallon. Expensive sure, but it gives me 4 centane points and IF I get my fuel milage back it will pay for itself. So now fuel is 7 1/2 cents higher, not enough to make me quit driving or change to a gasser.

Depending on what it does for my mpg it actually might make the fuel cheaper.

BigAl52 · 11-11-2006, 04:22 PM

For those who are interested Amsoil has a cetane boost that boost the cetane 7 points when you use an ounce per 5 gallons. The bottle cost 7.20 for 16 ounces. So each bottle treats 80 gallons. They also have a fuel conditioner and a cold flow improver. Seems to work for me haven't noticed a milage drop at all in my Dodge. AL

Tom Gina 06 · 11-12-2006, 01:13 AM

One of the things not mentioned here was brought up at another forum when I brought this up. The information came from a person that went to a Cummins service meeting.

The thing that is becoming a concern is that the type of rubber/plastic fittings on the engines built prior to this gov. mandate were drying out causing failure. It was mentioned that some of the fuel delivery lines may break down with time. My question is to the manufaturers. Why haven't they come out with a conversion kit to make the nessesary changes before they become a problem? Maybe some pressure to our government officials could force some protection to those of us that cannot make the change to the new designed engine. I am all for cleaner air to breath and willing to pay the price to convert if it truely needs it. Just do not let me sit on the side of the road with a failure being a major safety issue which could lead the arguement with our government officials. So far I haven't had any problems using the new fuel maybe a half a mile less in mileage per gallon. Anyone have anymore feed back on this?

Remember the..............

Broome101 · 11-12-2006, 01:35 AM

Wally World has Diesel Kleen boost that I have used for years no side effects.

dsprik · 11-12-2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Tom Gina 06

One of the things not mentioned here was brought up at another forum when I brought this up. The information came from a person that went to a Cummins service meeting.

The thing that is becoming a concern is that the type of rubber/plastic fittings on the engines built prior to this gov. mandate were drying out causing failure. It was mentioned that some of the fuel delivery lines may break down with time. My question is to the manufaturers. Why haven't they come out with a conversion kit to make the nessesary changes before they become a problem? Maybe some pressure to our government officials could force some protection to those of us that cannot make the change to the new designed engine. I am all for cleaner air to breath and willing to pay the price to convert if it truely needs it. Just do not let me sit on the side of the road with a failure being a major safety issue which could lead the arguement with our government officials. So far I haven't had any problems using the new fuel maybe a half a mile less in mileage per gallon. Anyone have anymore feed back on this?

Remember the..............

Can you say "CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT"???

But... who do all these starving attorneys go after??? The Federal Government for mandating fuel that destroys some fuel components in most existing vehicles, causing massive consumer expense? OR... the manufactures for not outfitting fuel systems with materials to handle what the Feds would consider to be the possibilty of future nominal changes in fuel formulations and additives that could be mandated by law?

And then while consumers are bringing this massive legal action against one or the other (or both) of these parties, these two parties could go after EACH OTHER, claiming incompetence and lack of foresight.

Sometimes I wish I was an attorney...

rickfox · 11-12-2006, 01:56 PM

Well guys,

I have read the entire thread and am still not sure what to do.

I think it was recommended that one should use a fuel conditioner to improve the lubrication properties of the fuel when the ULS diesel is used. I think it has also been recommended that one should use an additive to increase the centane.

Is this correct?
Is this one additive product, or two?
Is there one combo product? and what is it called?

Help.

Montana Sky · 11-12-2006, 03:08 PM

Rick,
Go to your GM dealership and pick up some of the GM fuel conditioner, it does both. I bought a case and got a $2 per bottle discount. Might ask about that as well.

BirdingRVer · 11-13-2006, 06:55 AM

"got a $2 per bottle discount"

Off of what starting price? What size is the bottle and how many gallons does each bottle treat?

Montana Sky · 11-13-2006, 08:00 AM

Grant,

Starting price was $8 a bottle, down to $6 per bottle with case purchase. Bottle is 11 ounces and treats up to 30 gallons. Not the most cost efficient, but still cheaper than buying a new motor at 125,000 miles. I am still waiting for a follow up call again from GM. I want to know if there is any other products they recommend, and one that will keep the warranty in effect. Standyne has been mentioned, but waiting for official word. Until then, I am going to continue to use the GM fuel conditioner.

I figure $6 a tank is cheap compared to $49,895.00 for a new truck. Just my 2 cents worth...

JimF · 11-13-2006, 01:06 PM

The stuff I bought is both, centane boost and fuel conditioner, treats 100 gallons for 7.50. Another reader found an amsoil product that was a boost and conditioner for a little lower cost.

look on the shelf in walter market or your local truck stop.

rickfox · 11-13-2006, 01:53 PM

Well All,

I bought some Power Service Diesel Kleene at Walmart today. Cost was $15.20 for a 96 oz. jug. It provides additional lubrication and also provides a 3 to 6 point of CETANE boost - don't know if there is a difference between CETANE and/or CENTANE. At the 3 point boost level, the jug treats 300 gal, or 5.1 cents/gal.

All other places I looked were more expensive.

Countryfolks · 11-13-2006, 02:30 PM

Rick; check the farm stores.

Skip

You may also like: