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Old 03-01-2008, 05:05 AM   #21
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Everyone needs to remember that big object behind your TV is a petroleum product. Fiberglass! There goe's the price of a new 5er.
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:55 AM   #22
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Here in NOrth Texas I paid $3.39 last week. I noticed that several stations are up to 3.59 but several are still 3.39 to 49.
I guess we are better off than most of you.
Still too high for what it costs to refine.

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Old 03-01-2008, 11:40 AM   #23
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Everybody is saying that we have to cut fuel consumption, buy new more efficient cars and trucks, slow down, lower home temperature down, etc. Ok now, I got a brand new truck from Ford a beautiful, shinny new vehicle with a new twin turbo engine, but this new truck is worse then every with fuel economy. How come Ford Company could release this truck when everyone is talking about better fuel economy? Even if I would like to sell my trailer and my brand new truck who will buy it?
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Old 03-01-2008, 12:08 PM   #24
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My personal opinion is that the car manufactures are in cahoots with the petroleum industry in that they could make a fuel efficient vehicle with all the horse power we presently have, but the petroleum industry begs, kickbacks, or whatever to prevent that from happening so their profit margins can be in the billions. Take the automobile. A 1950's, 1960's 1970's V-8 automobile got between 17 and 20 MPG. My '51 ford stick got 17 around town and 20 on the highway unless I ran Amoco Hi-test (White gas) then it got 26 MPG. The same thing can be said about diesels. Look at what the recent post on the Freightliner and how much per gallon it gets. Duh! F-350, F-450, can't even come close.

In 1974 there was a "gas crunch." Remember the rationing that went on?
The public rebelled and started carpooling, 3, 4, or more to a car. I remember driving every other week as my turn to carpool. Fuel consumption hit bottom low, and the prices when down with it and the rationing stopped. (Never was a fuel shortage to begin with. See my post in another thread)

The problem in today's day and age - no one wants to carpool. Everyone wants lower prices but don't want to give up the luxury of independence by driving their own SUV all the time.

We could go on and on about this subject.
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Old 03-01-2008, 12:28 PM   #25
stiles watson
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Exactly, I can't pull my Big Sky with a fuel efficient tricycle. I don't drive fast. When not pulling, I run 60 to 65. To drive slower in high traffic environs would be obstructive. When pulling, 55 to 60 mph. I didn't design the engine. I either have to choose from among high consumption engines that are powerful enough to pull or give up the lifestyle altogether and go back to a stick house and drive a hybrid.

The truth is at my age, this is probably the last truck I will ever buy and this Montana will be my last. Both have a longer expected life span than I do. This is our only vehicle since we full time. So whatever changes may come along, I am stuck with what I have. The only variable in my future is fuel pricing. So philosophizing about how to reshape the world lacks any pragmatic value to me.

Lighter Rv's, more efficient engines, hydrogen fuel cell, etc, etc, etc will never fall under my command and control. Perhaps it will benefit my grandchildren. What I need is lower Diesel prices, NOW.
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:31 PM   #26
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I vote for STILES!!!!!!
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:34 PM   #27
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Just this evening on the national news the news was "demand is down, supplies are good, and the the prices are high."
The expert giving the reason for high prices for fuel was due to the high cost per barrel of oil and the weak U.S. Dollar and the strength of foreign money. The foreign market appears to be ready to buy that $100 plus barrel of oil. If that is the case I think we may have a rough road ahead.
Like Stiles, we also have chosen to RV. That is what we do and we like it. We do have a home to go to when not on the road but we plan on spending more time on the road. I don't like the high prices for fuel either. So, I guess I will just have to suck it up and will have to put more money in the tank of that new truck if I want to RV. I would be willing to bet that most of us with RVs prefer not to stay in motels and we most likely like the idea of knowing who slept in our bed the night before.

Stiles stated it very well and gave a good perspective on the situation. It would help to have lower fuel cost now.

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Old 03-01-2008, 01:38 PM   #28
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A gas station near us is charging $3.99 per gallon for diesel. So the price we have feared is already here! I guess we can only do what we can do. If we all cut back in some way it will have an effect. Stay longer in one place before moving on. We think twice before going anywhere. We do things in a loop and make several stops in one trip. All these things will help. Driving slower is another solution. It is sad that when we finally have the time to do the things we have worked so hard for, we now are finding we may not be able to afford it.
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:19 PM   #29
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Ditto what Stiles said... Finger pointing is pointless.

Arthur Godfrey once said, "Even if you're on the right track, if you don't move, you'll still get run over".

I, like Stiles, would to see someone do something. Sure, I slow down. But, I am frustrated because the policy makers in government - both parties - and the commodity brokers do not seem to be living in the real world - and they are seemingly oblivious to what our fears are, and just slowing down will not give us the immediate, drastic relief we are all going to need.
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:25 PM   #30
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Been doing the loop errands since 1972, and look where that got our economy?? OHHH, you mean, my single attempt at loop errands does not make a hill of means difference in the over all picture of things?? SHUCKS!

OK, the above comments are tongue in cheek, obviously.

But, the fact, is, Al and I have been doing a lot of your suggestions as a matter of the way we live and have done so, seriously, for many years. I suppose if someone else would join in it might help??

Something feels wrong when Al and I spent more $$ for fuel to get from Michigan to RGV and back home again than we will on our housing while down here, and we are not staying in an inexpensive campground, eh??
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:40 PM   #31
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I to vote for stiles. Diesel is 3.50$ here at my place but this is my last rv and truck so it does help me whatever they do in the future I need help NOW. my old truck gets 12mpg at 69 mph that is not bad. I just need one good lottery ticket LOL!!!!. bobby
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:58 PM   #32
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About 6 to 8 yrs ago two refineries 1 in Alberta and 1 from B.C. where disassembled and shipped oversea and nothing to replace them. It is about time the Government in both countries got of their BUTTS and started to get some modern refineries built. The Oil companies and Governments are making massive money and don't put anything back into finishing the product.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:24 PM   #33
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Here is an article on the Independent Truckers, looks like they are also feeling the pinch with higher diesel prices. Looks like the independents can not pass along higher fuel prices via Sur Charges.

Back in the 70's when we had the long lines for fuel, the government lowered the speed limit to 55, most people did not like it, but it sure saves some fuel. What ever happened to the fuel companies that touted shale rock and water injection? Didn't the Germans in WWII make diesel from coal?

Along with better mileage auto's, it seems there are plenty of options, we just need to get the government off its slow moving butt and do several constructive things to help the US Economy.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:25 PM   #34
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how bout this?????

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Old 03-01-2008, 03:43 PM   #35
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That is a good article about independent truckers. That was the whole point of my post. "We the people," can do something about it but it will take a nation wide effort to get the prices down. I know I can't organize it. Someone on the media has to take the rein and run it to the ground. The truckers could really put a stop to it by going on strike. I don't know if that is the answer, but supply and demand would definitely be affected.

I am also in my twilight years and this is my last truck and most likely my last camper of any style unless I hit that lotto before y'all do.

Oh! I have to buy a ticket?
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:13 PM   #36
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If only the prices would drop enough so I could afford a lottery ticket!!!!(LOL)

Louise and I are of the same mind as most of you. This is also our last truck and 5ver. I was been lucky enough to have retired early, over 5 years ago and she will retire in July. Our dreams were not to full time but be able to travel at our leisure. If it means less travel with the Montana and more via "other" means than so be it.

Two years ago I contacted both of our Senators, of which one was Obama, regarding the high cost of fuel, and received, from both, a standard thank you for contacting us message.

I don't believe our elected officials really care about our opinions and needs. Only when it's convenient. I went to Obama's and Clinton's web sites and could not find anything regarding oil conservation or alternative fuels. So much for the Dems retoric.
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:44 AM   #37
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I don't think the cost of diesel or gas is our only problem here. Groceries and necessities have gone up tremendously. If the cost of fuel goes down, do you honestly think our groceries will drop in price! One item in particular that I noticed was something I always pay $2.99 for went up in price to $3.49 in one week. How many items do we purchase that we don't even notice the prices going up, particularly groceries. People have to buy groceries, so you can't escape the rising cost of fuel even if you stay home! Still, we all need to find cost saving measures even if only for our own imediate savings just to survive.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:12 AM   #38
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Question of the month:
Who really controls the price of oil, OPEC or the big oil companies?


Short answer: None of the above.

Big Oil and the Big O can't control the price of oil, even though OPEC really, really wants to. Oil prices are set by supply and demand in a global market.

Many people think OPEC controls oil prices, however, for at least three reasons:

OPEC certainly acts like it sets the price of oil. It holds meetings and issues press releases and sets "quotas" for its members.
Oil prices often go on bumping up and down like OPEC never existed.
It's obvious that the world's biggest oil producers can increase price by curtailing production.
Here's the catch: Any producer big enough to manipulate the market by slashing production can't benefit from the resulting higher price.

And any producer big enough to crash prices by increasing production will suffer from doing so.

If any country could control oil prices, it would be Saudi Arabia. This is why it can't.

People assume that if OPEC didn't exist, all major producers would open the spigot and produce oil at the maximum possible rate, which makes no sense whatever.
Oil producers behave exactly like producers in any other industry. When inventories are low and prices are high, they produce more. When inventories are high and prices are low, they produce less.

Nobody needs OPEC to tell them to do that"

Interesting????? Is it not??? Do we understand that we(the USA) produce only about 40 % of the oil we demand every day. That would mean 60% must come from someplace else. Could we produce more..sure we could..But there is the enviroment to consider.Could it Really have something to do with supply and demand.. Could we conserve....Most RV'es by their post do not care what the price of fuel is."Nothing will stop us"How many vehicles do we own..we own 2..it was three till Helen retired...no one on our block at home has less that 2 vehicles..some have 3,4 5. Could that have something to do with it. If we were able to produce more oil would that help, if we lowered the emmission standards..would that help.How about the ozone levels..how about clean lakes and streams..How about a nuke power plant in your back yard how about windmills on your property. How about solar panels..how many have them in their stick house...how about Hybrid auto's. Do any of us own energy stock, check your 401K's.... Shame on us if we do well you will just dump them tomarrow Right??.....No,No we don't want to do those things.. we can point our collective fingers at 'Big Oil, OPEC, Corporate greed..the politicians, the political parties..anyone , anything therefore we own no responsibility do do anything about it. Not our fault. It is "them"..well "they" have a products that we will buy at any price and since we are not the problem..well what can we do..
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:44 AM   #39
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Wow Richfaa that was some post.

Canada still produces the majority of it's oil from wells. This will be overtaken by production from tar sands in Alberta. This is not environmentally friendly but these sands hold about half the known recoverable oil on the planet.

Yes the rapid rise of the $Can means higher energy costs to our US cousins. At the same time it means many of our manufacturing plants are closing as we are no longer competitive either domestically or in external markets.

A new 300,000 plus barrel refinery is to be built in Newfoundland to supply the eastern US market. It will process sour crude oil from Africa and the Mid-east. It would be virtually impossible for this to be built at any port in the US because of state and local regulations.

NAFTA has created both winners and losers in Canada and the USA but I believe it was absolutely necessary to make NA a free trade zone within itself. Now I would like to see us move to a linked currency policy, place tariffs on goods that come from countries that do not have comparable labour and environmental standards and to further develop hydrogen fuel. This would mean forcing the current gas/diesel distribution network to carry hydrogen. It would use both water and petroleum as a source of the hydrogen. Unfortunately this will not provide a cheaper fuel although current gas prices are getting close.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:15 AM   #40
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IMHO, this is purely an issue of supply and demand. Surely we have all noticed the significant increase in traffic the past number of years, yet we have done nothing as a nation to increase our supply. We no longer have enough refinery capaicty, we are now importing gasoline. In fact, we have made it so difficult, we have forced ourselves to become more dependent on others. The oil companies make about 8 cents a gallon. We allow ourselves to be taxed at 70-80 cents a gallon and then blame big oil rather than those who tax and impede developement. (Roger you are right, we have made it imposssible here in the US)

The problem is as I see it, is supply. We can talk about conservation all we want (and we should) but the bottom line is that we have to produce more, plain and simple. Not to say that we should explore alternatives, we should, but short term we should produce, here in our own back yard, off our own coasts. Instead of prosecuting development we should encourage and support it. The development of energy is partly what made this country develop to what it is today. To hinder that development will only hasten our decline.
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