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Old 05-24-2023, 07:16 AM   #1
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Lippert hydraulic slides pause - BCM ERROR

We have owned our 2016 Montana 3611 RL Legacy for just over a year.

The hydraulic level system works great.

The large hydraulic slides work, but they pause several times going in an out.

We have the InCommand version 1.
While engaging the screen to operate the slides, it has to reconnect to BCM several times which causes the slides to pause.

We have tried operating the slides one at a time, using the knobs on the exterior control panel. No help.

I have upgraded the breaker for the hydraulics to 80amp. No help.

I have a Victron Battery Monitor and have been watching the amps in real time while my wife operates the InCommand screen. When the BCM connection error occurs, the DC amps have jumped above 80 amps.

We have been considering replacing the InCommand to the latest version, with a wire from the DC to the BCM if that is what will cure the problem.

If the limit for the hydraulics is 80 amps, then the InCommand upgrade may not help.

Anyone cure this issue?
 
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Old 05-24-2023, 11:16 AM   #2
rohrmann
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M.O.C. #12947
How old are your batteries? If they are getting weak, possibly lower voltage when under high load is causing the higher amperage you are seeing. If the voltage was staying closer to 12 volts while under load, your amps may not get as high. You also need to make sure all the connections are clean and tight so there is less resistance, because that will also cause lower voltage.
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Old 05-24-2023, 12:40 PM   #3
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
How old are your batteries? If they are getting weak, possibly lower voltage when under high load is causing the higher amperage you are seeing. If the voltage was staying closer to 12 volts while under load, your amps may not get as high. You also need to make sure all the connections are clean and tight so there is less resistance, because that will also cause lower voltage.
Thanks for the ideas

Brand new Lithium batteries (1200ah). Ground and positive wires to breaker and battery have been reseated.
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:36 AM   #4
ChuckS
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M.O.C. #20949
Since your battery is new and you have the 80 amp resettable breaker in line from battery to dual polarity solenoid and are seeing high amp draw even with just running one hyd slide I would..
.. Check the ground connection from the frame to the dual polarity solenoid.. remove the frame ground terminal end and clean surface to bare metal and reconnect
.. Check both cable runs from solenoid to both poles on the motor for corrosion or looseness
.. Re-check the connection from the 80 amp resettable breaker to the battery and to the solenoid terminal post
.. Remove the frame ground terminal cable end from battery negative terminal to frame and clean the surface till you have shiny metal and reconnect

.. If you are still seeing 80 plus amp draw when hyd pump motor runs then I would be looking at the motor itself considering your RV is a 2016

.. Mine is a 2014 and my normal amp draw is around 45 to 72 when operating the slides ( all 3 of my slides are hydraulic )
.. I see same with the 6 point hyd level up operation

A new upgraded BCM will DO NOTHING to fix this issue since it is only sending "Signal voltage" to either the extend or retract sides of the dual polarity solenoid and NOT the actual LOAD SUPPLY ( the 80 amp breaker is doing that job )

** The BCM IS GOING TOI GLITCH EVERYTIME that amp draw on that hyd pump motor peaks at 80 amps or more because the resettable breaker is causing the 12 volt source to BCM and Display tablet to glitch and BCM reconnect occurs

** I would also check the ground from the BCM itself to frame by removing the terminal end and verifying frame surface is shiny metal

EDIT -- if you used an oscilloscope you would see the peak is most likley higher than 80 amps for a few milliseconds
** The Victron display is not fast enough to see this NOR would any multimeter be able to show this.. but a scope will
** And YES - I have put my O scope on my RV and during cold weather operation the pump Peaks past 80 amps at ( 10 degrees outside temp )
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:00 AM   #5
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Since your battery is new and you have the 80 amp resettable breaker in line from battery to dual polarity solenoid and are seeing high amp draw even with just running one hyd slide I would..
.. Check the ground connection from the frame to the dual polarity solenoid.. remove the frame ground terminal end and clean surface to bare metal and reconnect
.. Check both cable runs from solenoid to both poles on the motor for corrosion or looseness
.. Re-check the connection from the 80 amp resettable breaker to the battery and to the solenoid terminal post
.. Remove the frame ground terminal cable end from battery negative terminal to frame and clean the surface till you have shiny metal and reconnect

.. If you are still seeing 80 plus amp draw when hyd pump motor runs then I would be looking at the motor itself considering your RV is a 2016

.. Mine is a 2014 and my normal amp draw is around 45 to 72 when operating the slides ( all 3 of my slides are hydraulic )
.. I see same with the 6 point hyd level up operation

A new upgraded BCM will DO NOTHING to fix this issue since it is only sending "Signal voltage" to either the extend or retract sides of the dual polarity solenoid and NOT the actual LOAD SUPPLY ( the 80 amp breaker is doing that job )

** The BCM IS GOING TOI GLITCH EVERYTIME that amp draw on that hyd pump motor peaks at 80 amps or more because the resettable breaker is causing the 12 volt source to BCM and Display tablet to glitch and BCM reconnect occurs

** I would also check the ground from the BCM itself to frame by removing the terminal end and verifying frame surface is shiny metal

EDIT -- if you used an oscilloscope you would see the peak is most likley higher than 80 amps for a few milliseconds
** The Victron display is not fast enough to see this NOR would any multimeter be able to show this.. but a scope will
** And YES - I have put my O scope on my RV and during cold weather operation the pump Peaks past 80 amps at ( 10 degrees outside temp )
Thank you. I will double down on connections to see if I can reduce the voltage drops, and lower the amps. I'm hoping it's not the motor, but that is probably cheaper than the new BCM
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Old 05-25-2023, 08:30 AM   #6
Daryles
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M.O.C. #24086
I know you said you replaced the breaker with an 80A breaker.
Maybe instead, leave that breaker alone and put your hydraulic system on its own "separate" 80A breaker.
Also try lubricating the slide gears.
I believe some also spray PTFE (teflon) lubrication on the darco underside of the slide so it runs over the rub bar easier. I'm not sure Lippert approves of that though.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:38 AM   #7
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryles View Post
I know you said you replaced the breaker with an 80A breaker.
Maybe instead, leave that breaker alone and put your hydraulic system on its own "separate" 80A breaker.
Also try lubricating the slide gears.
I believe some also spray PTFE (teflon) lubrication on the darco underside of the slide so it runs over the rub bar easier. I'm not sure Lippert approves of that though.
I do have the 80 amp breaker running straight from the batteries to the pump. I also lube the shafts and the gears
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Old 05-28-2023, 02:09 PM   #8
bcrvman
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M.O.C. #26399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Merritt View Post
Thanks for the ideas

Brand new Lithium batteries (1200ah). Ground and positive wires to breaker and battery have been reseated.
WOW, you have 12 batteries (assuming each is 100AH). I have only 6, and just yesterday ran my jacks up and down a bunch of times to seat the rubber feet on them, then ran the slides in and out and then levelled, and then tilted the trailer so my head is higher than my feet while sleeping to combat GERD. When I checked the battery health on the Victron panel a few minutes later, it was back to 100% since I am plugged in all this time and the charger is nearly instant with Lithium.
You have some sort of bad connection, or you used less than 4/0 welding wire (the kind that is all copper made of many very fine strands so it is super bendy).
BTW, did you buy marine grade connectors, marine grade 80A breaker?

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Old 05-28-2023, 02:36 PM   #9
scottz
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M.O.C. #19755
Just a thought, but it sounds like you are losing connectivity between the interior control panel and the relay center.

It has been awhile, but I think I remember something about the first version of InCommand having connectivity issues. The first version control panel might have had a problematic wireless connection which they later changed to cable.

Have you contacted ASA for help?
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Old 05-29-2023, 05:46 AM   #10
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottz View Post
Just a thought, but it sounds like you are losing connectivity between the interior control panel and the relay center.

It has been awhile, but I think I remember something about the first version of InCommand having connectivity issues. The first version control panel might have had a problematic wireless connection which they later changed to cable.

Have you contacted ASA for help?
Yes. I have been in contact with Harold at ASA. We have a full InCommand replacement/upgrade scheduled for September. I am triple checking the issue in hopes of reducing the expense.
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Old 05-29-2023, 05:52 AM   #11
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrvman View Post
WOW, you have 12 batteries (assuming each is 100AH). I have only 6, and just yesterday ran my jacks up and down a bunch of times to seat the rubber feet on them, then ran the slides in and out and then levelled, and then tilted the trailer so my head is higher than my feet while sleeping to combat GERD. When I checked the battery health on the Victron panel a few minutes later, it was back to 100% since I am plugged in all this time and the charger is nearly instant with Lithium.
You have some sort of bad connection, or you used less than 4/0 welding wire (the kind that is all copper made of many very fine strands so it is super bendy).
BTW, did you buy marine grade connectors, marine grade 80A breaker?

Actually four 300 ah batteries. 4/0 copper wire.Bussmann CB185-80 Waterproof High Amp Flush Mount Type III (3) Circuit Breaker (80 Amp)

The system had the problem BEFORE the upgrades.
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Old 06-07-2023, 12:08 PM   #12
Jay Merritt
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M.O.C. #30834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Since your battery is new and you have the 80 amp resettable breaker in line from battery to dual polarity solenoid and are seeing high amp draw even with just running one hyd slide I would..
.. Check the ground connection from the frame to the dual polarity solenoid.. remove the frame ground terminal end and clean surface to bare metal and reconnect
.. Check both cable runs from solenoid to both poles on the motor for corrosion or looseness
.. Re-check the connection from the 80 amp resettable breaker to the battery and to the solenoid terminal post
.. Remove the frame ground terminal cable end from battery negative terminal to frame and clean the surface till you have shiny metal and reconnect

.. If you are still seeing 80 plus amp draw when hyd pump motor runs then I would be looking at the motor itself considering your RV is a 2016

.. Mine is a 2014 and my normal amp draw is around 45 to 72 when operating the slides ( all 3 of my slides are hydraulic )
.. I see same with the 6 point hyd level up operation

A new upgraded BCM will DO NOTHING to fix this issue since it is only sending "Signal voltage" to either the extend or retract sides of the dual polarity solenoid and NOT the actual LOAD SUPPLY ( the 80 amp breaker is doing that job )

** The BCM IS GOING TOI GLITCH EVERYTIME that amp draw on that hyd pump motor peaks at 80 amps or more because the resettable breaker is causing the 12 volt source to BCM and Display tablet to glitch and BCM reconnect occurs

** I would also check the ground from the BCM itself to frame by removing the terminal end and verifying frame surface is shiny metal

EDIT -- if you used an oscilloscope you would see the peak is most likley higher than 80 amps for a few milliseconds
** The Victron display is not fast enough to see this NOR would any multimeter be able to show this.. but a scope will
** And YES - I have put my O scope on my RV and during cold weather operation the pump Peaks past 80 amps at ( 10 degrees outside temp )
I put a DC AMP CLAMP on the positive wire at the motor and verified it is spiking at 80-100 amps. The voltage is not dropping below 12.5. I communicated this with Lippert and they are sending a new motor. It looks like it's a DIY replacement.
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