Don't chip engine in CA - Montana Owners Club

nailbender · 04-09-2009, 09:07 AM

If you live in California, beginning next year we will have another reason to not chip diesel engines. Starting January 1, 2010 a smog check will be required on diesel pickups with a GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Most smog machines can't measure diesel smoke, so the smog check will be mostly visual with a shop computer scan to make sure the computer hasn't been modified with chips or programs.

Article also stated that some people may try to fool smog shops by temporarily converting their trucks back to factory specifications before going in for a smog check, but the truck's computer may communicate such tampering to smog checking machine.

Isn't California great!

HamRad · 04-09-2009, 10:24 AM

Don,
I don't see how anyone who lives in a town called "Paradise" can complain about anything!

But seriously I like clean air. And I know about dirty air. I live in the number one dirty air place in the country! Good old Kern County. For a short time after they had implemented the clean air act some years back our air actually got much better. Then as they chipped away at it and we got so much more traffic it has gradually gotten worse. There are only a few days each year that we can even see the mountains. And they are only 10 to 20 miles away!

Thankfully I'm happy with the performance of my tow vehicle and see no need to chip it.

Thanks for the information.

Dennis

daneboy · 04-09-2009, 11:09 AM

I followed a Dodge Cummins today, every time shifted to the next gear it let out a huge cloud of black smoke. I had to back off and let him get way ahead to get clean air. If that's what chips do to get more powerm, I'll stick to the stock engine. They make so much power, why even bother. With the 100,000 mile guarantee on new trucks, why take the chance of loosing it? Just my opinion.
Jerry

HughM · 04-09-2009, 11:40 AM

There is no way I would lose my 5yr/100,000 mile warranty for 50 hp that I don't need. The stock is good enough for me.
Hugh

nailbender · 04-09-2009, 11:53 AM

I also would never consider chipping either my trucks, I am very happy with them and they have plenty of stock power. I just wanted to let anybody in CA who might be considering chipping that they could have a problem. One part of the new law I don't understand is it only applies to 1998 and newer trucks, it is the older trucks that probably cause the most pollution.

02pullin · 04-09-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by nailbender

I also would never consider chipping either my trucks, I am very happy with them and they have plenty of stock power. I just wanted to let anybody in CA who might be considering chipping that they could have a problem. One part of the new law I don't understand is it only applies to 1998 and newer trucks, it is the older trucks that probably cause the most pollution.

Hi Don,

What I see so far going on with testing 1/1/2010 is
AB 1488
"This bill would, starting January 1, 2010, include diesel-powered vehicles manufactured after the 1997 model-year that have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 8,501 pounds in the biennial smog check program, as provided."
I know my Dodge is 8800#
The section above is from the 1/2009 workshop
and there's suppose to be another workshop to capture our trucks.
By the way I've chipped my truck. Of course I waited until the warranty was up before doing it. The thing to remember is there are all kinds of chips/Programmers out there and if you do it make sure you research for your needs. If it's just raw wasteful power your looking for then you'll most likely never find enough. I found mind to give me the help I need getting out of the valley here without the down shifting and since my settings are for timing only I gain 2~3 MPG for the normal.

nailbender · 04-09-2009, 03:49 PM

Dave, I am sure all of us eventually will be required to be inspected.

I see you have a Edge chip. I had 2003 Dodge several years ago, and at that time our local Dodge dealer had a large banner in the service area promoting the Edge chips. If your truck has the same HP as mine did, I can understand why you need a chip. I really liked the truck, but it didn't have much power.

Trailer Trash 2 · 04-09-2009, 07:23 PM

OH darn it! I just sold my 96 and it had all the Banks equiptment and it would have been exempt. But I knew that a year and a half ago about this new smog check for diesels in California. I also did hear that the new computers has a tattle tail feature, and will tell the manufacture if the vehicle has been chipped and void your warrintee.

I dont need to chip my new Red Ram, it has plenty of power to pull my Monty, and it burns much cleaner than the 96. the only thing I dont like is having to go to the smog station, it's sorta a no brainer job.

Where lucky we dont have to have a safty check like some other states do, there would be a lot of trucks getting repairs.

kmh3212 · 04-14-2009, 05:30 PM

The first year for much of any smog control equipment on diesel was not required until 2003 it every state but California. The problem that the Pollution control equipment on 2008 model year and up trucks is that it requires dumping raw fuel in the exhaust stroke of the engine producing zero power. This cost as much as 3 mpg in wasted energy. I like clean air myself but we lose wasting precious fossil fuels and send addiional money to the middle east as well as causing the price on almost everthing we buy to go up. When diesel prices rise back to where they were last summer the price of consumer goods will rise as well.

mtheo · 04-17-2009, 06:26 PM

I have an older Duramax and can imagine not having the extra power, If I had a new truck with an extra 30-40 hp I might not chip mine either. But mine was out of warrenty and needed the help.

richfaa · 04-18-2009, 03:23 AM

We can verify that when our 08 Ford regenerates we do see a loss of at least 3 to 4 MPG during the 20 min or so regen cycle. We note no loss of power or any other effect and we can see things like RPM on our after market Gage. Having been born in Pittsburgh , PA and having lived during the pre EPA days we do not want to go back to those polluting ways. I will take clean air instead of choking every day.

nailbender · 04-18-2009, 08:51 AM

Rich, How often does your truck go through the regeneration process. I have 4,500 mi on my truck (still new) and haven't noticed it regenerating.

richfaa · 04-18-2009, 02:40 PM

The truck should generate a "cleaning the filter " msg on the msg display if you have all the latest flashes or it is a later 08 build. Otherwise it can be difficult to notice it is in regen. I can see it because we have a after market gage and the EGT temps increase by 300/400 degrees during regen. We have never seen a high speed regen or one while towing (high speed). If you can keep the EGT high enough it will seldom go into regen. We do not see many regen solo because we do not do much low speed driving..under 35MPH, under 600 degrees EGT. At 4,500 miles you should have had more than one regen and you probably have but not noticed it. Check your tail pipe for very black residue. If it is black you have a problem that can effect regen??? Sounds like your truck is new enough to display the cleaning filter MSG and you should have seen some by now....

**Carl n Susan** · 04-18-2009, 06:30 PM

Don and Rich: Do you both have the latest customer satisfaction programs installed (one flashes the TCM to introduce the new "Cleaning Exhaust Filter" message and the other adds a "T" to the radiator overflow)?? The flash came out in November but uncovered a TCM problem and was put on hold awaiting a solution. It was released again around the first of the year. Owners will get a letter from Ford in the mail and have until the end of the year to get it installed.

I suspect not as my (and others on the Ford forums) experience is "passive regen" is non-existent. We recently completed a 7300 mile trip after having the flash installed. We regen around every 150 miles when towing and around every 300 miles when not. These are all "Active" regens with the new message prominently displayed. The more you haul and the harder the pull (Techapai Pass in Southern CA), the more frequent the regen (110 miles in that case).

The new message usurps what ever display you may have had on the message center, so you can't miss it. I suspect Rich is watching the Edge monitor, but, unless he has the "blank" display selected on the message center, he should see it in the 20 minutes it takes to complete the process.

richfaa · 04-19-2009, 03:24 AM

Yes we do have all then latest updates and my msg center now displays the "cleaning exhaust filter" msg. We do not have the edge monitor just a gage that monitors the pre turbo EGT and the PC outputs. We do not see the regens you do Carl and never have. Documentation indicates that the higher you keep the EGT the fewer active regens you should have. We do now see the MSG on the MSG center but we always noted the higher EGT temps via the gage. Driving low speed solo here in FLorida we have only seen the msg 2 times in over two months. One right after the flashes and one about 500 miles later. The higher EGT temps were also indicated on the gage. We just have never seen a active regen at high speed, high EGT temps while towing and we can't miss the higer EGT readings as the gage is right in my field of view.

nailbender · 04-19-2009, 09:20 AM

I took my truck in last month for a recall which included the update on the message center but haven't noticed any difference. We are taking a short next weekend and I will keep a eye on the message center.

**Carl n Susan** · 04-19-2009, 01:40 PM

Thanks for the update Rich! I will be interested to hear the frequency (or infrequency) of regens when you haul the boat anchor north again.

I don't have a gauge so I have no insight into my exhaust temps. Maybe I should make the investment. Our recent trip was through Southern CA (and the only place with real hills), AZ, NM, and TX. Mostly level type terrain. I think the frequency of regen is excessive, but according to the FTE and Diesel Place forums, not so much.

There are vey few 2008 Fords in the MOC crowd here in the west when we made our trip. And I was the only one with the latest flash (it was still on hold at the time). Now that it is generally available, I should be able to compare with others. Nailbender and I will have the Siskiyou and Cascade mountain ranges to cross on our way to the Spring Rally. Those two have a couple of long 7% grades. We will definitely compare notes! I could well have an overly agressive sensor that results in frequent regens?

Bruce Lenhardt · 04-19-2009, 02:36 PM

My 2008 F350 has the latest computer updates and is behaving much like Carl N Susan stated. On a trip to the RGV this winter I was getting a regen about every 150 to 200 miles while pulling the Monty.

Trailer Trash 2 · 04-19-2009, 04:25 PM

I have 2k on the new Dodge and have not had a regen. Why not?

richfaa · 04-20-2009, 03:26 AM

Hummm. I will keep a eye on the regen's on the trip home. We do get regens and we do see them on the gage and now on the MSG center but we certainly do not get them every 150/200 miles solo or towing and never did. Our tail pipes are clean, we get acceptable MPG and the truck runs fine. According to what we are reading if you keep the EGT's up 600/650 the particulates wll burn off and active regen's will be reduced.

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