Airbags needed??

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by Hblick48

I just learned that GVWR does not include pin weight of the 5er per Etrailer.com:

"The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers."

I was including the pin weight in GVWR calculation. That means that I am not overloaded, just tilted. Whew, I feel better.

this is a 3 popcorn posting

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by jeffba

this is a 3 popcorn posting

At least three.



That was directly out of a Wikioedia definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_..._weight_rating). Be really careful on how that definition is used as that pin weight is for sure GVWR pounds. On a TT, that Wiki definition could most likely apply



rTrailer may sell parts at reasonable prices, but their advice sent out by inexperienced 21 year old phone bank CS folks is not always correct - to wit, $140 bucks worth of leaf springs sitting, waiting for a scrap yard trip

[Waricha]

I bought Helwig load leveling helper springs. They don't increase the capacity of my truck, merely, keep it level when hooked up. I love them. They don't affect the unloaded ride quality either and were pretty economical.

[Hblick48]

According to the official Ford towing guide, my 2005 F250 6.0 maximum 5th wheel towing weight is 15,400. Assuming a pin weight of 20%, it would be a 3,080 pounds. According to the sticker, the maximum I can carry is 2,285. If I I include the pin weight in the GVWR, I am already over weight without someone to drive it...pretty good trick if you could do it. This leads me to conclude that Trailer weight can't be included in the GVWR calculation. BTW, my rig weighs in at under 13,000 loaded with a pin weight of 2,720, just a tad over 20%

[waynemoore]

Where did you find that?

[jeffba]

Typically a 3/4 truck is rated at 10K lbs. Hook up your camper, hit the scales. Add weight on front wheels and back wheels. Let the scales decide.

No wiki or etrailer quoting wiki needed.

[Hblick48]

Originally Posted by waynemoore

Where did you find that?

2015 Ford towing guide https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/..._SuperDuty.pdf

[richfaa]

We did not purchase the compressor with our Firestone airbags. We do have a compressor on board the RV.It does take some experimentation to determine the correct PSI for the bag.We have found over the years that the bags once set do hold the PSI lever for a very long time. Checking the airbag PSI is part of our regular pre trip and we rarely adjust. The compressor is however a good add on.

[Montana Man]

Originally Posted by Hblick48

According to the official Ford towing guide, my 2005 F250 6.0 maximum 5th wheel towing weight is 15,400. Assuming a pin weight of 20%, it would be a 3,080 pounds. According to the sticker, the maximum I can carry is 2,285. If I I include the pin weight in the GVWR, I am already over weight without someone to drive it...pretty good trick if you could do it. This leads me to conclude that Trailer weight can't be included in the GVWR calculation. BTW, my rig weighs in at under 13,000 loaded with a pin weight of 2,720, just a tad over 20%

Pin weight (not trailer weight) is included in GVWR. You probably are overloaded. A weight of the whole loaded rig will give GCVWR. You may be over that as well. People do it all the time. Just don't get in a wreck as being overloaded adds to liability.

[Hblick48]

Please refer to the attached 2005 Ford Towing Guide. The maximum 5th wheel is 15,400 LBS. GCWR is 23,000 LBS. The Notes indicate that "the king pin weight should be 15-25% of total loaded trailer." 25% of 15,400 is 3,850 LBS, well above the carrying capacity of the truck, therefore I conclude that the trailer weight is not included in the GVWR. When towing a 5th wheel, I believe the critical factor are trailer weight and GCWR.

In my case, Montana weighs 13,500 (maximum) and loaded truck weighs 9,000 (maximum) for a total of 22,500, just shy of Ford's 23,000 GCWR.

Others, please chime in..I think I'm interpreting this correctly?

[jeffba]

So are you saying the weight the 5th exerts downward into the bed of the truck does not matter as long as you do not exceed the GCWR?

[Montana Man]

Sounds good on the GCVWR. Overloaded on the GVWR.

[Hblick48]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Sticker on door post says maximum weight is 2285 lbs. A 10,000 pound 5er would have a pin weight of 2,000 lbs (20%). That means that you are left with 285 pounds for your stuff, the 5er hitch, you and DW. They say I can tow 14,500. Excluding the pin weight, 2,285 pounds would cover my stuff, me, and DW.

[waynemoore]

You know you can go over this all day. Do an axel weight and you will see just what is what. Your 20% is theoretical. The spec is 15 to 25%. There is no sense in guessing? Take the intire rig (truck and trailer) to the scales and weight it.

[waynemoore]

How mush you can tow has nothing to do with how much you can carry in your truck.

[jeffba]

Okay a big point of dicussion is Towing capacity vs Carrying capacity. When towing a 5er, carrying capacity is most often the limiting factor.

My unloaded pin weight was 2560.
My hitch added about 250lbs with adaptor plate.
My 1 ton SRW had a GVWR of 11500.
it had a carrying capacity of 3260.

When I hit the scales with what I call storage weight ( no food water or anything like that) the front wheels were at 4980 the rear wheels were at 6420.

So the truck weighs in at 11400 (4980+6420) with the 5er pushing down on the bed of the truck.
I was withing 100 lbs of the GVWR without wife dogs.

This was before we added the W/D. (another 200lbs)

I then went to a dually. I am now safely below the GVWR.

There are exhaustive threads on this. This one may turn into that.

[waynemoore]

Jeffba, yep that is how it is done.

[Montana Man]

I don't get it. Accurate weights taken while loaded is the only way to determine if anything is overloaded.

That being said, I can say with confidence the truck has exceeded the GVWR. By specs your empty trailer pin weight exceeds 2200 lbs. This may come as a surprise but 3/4 ton trucks (and some one tons) just don't cut it with big fivers.

[beeje]

Montana Man, I said exactly that many posts ago. People just don't get it. They think there 3/4 ton trucks can tow anything/any where/anytime.

Ill say it again ( IF YOU ARE TOWING A VERY HEAVY FIFTH WHEEL, OF ANY BRAND WITH A 3/4 TON TRUCK, YOU ARE MORE THAN LIKLY OVERLOADING YOUR TRUCK...….)

Any one that thinks that trailer pin weight is not part of the trucks GVWR is very wrong...…

To those of you reading this, I do fully understand that you may not be able to, or want to, upgrade to a truck that is legally/safely capable of towing the trailer that you have. These reasons are not just financial. Some have to use their trucks as daily commuters. Some have to park them in a garage etc. I get it, but it still does not make it right.

What do think would happen if over the road truckers were not required to be within weight, and be checked for over weight conditions. ? I would bet my life that every single truck on the road would be over their weight limit simply because they could get away with it and make more money with each load.

[mlh]

Let me ask the weight police. What bad things have YOU seen happen when someone overloaded their truck a small %. I personally haven’t seen anything bad happened to anyone. Maybe you have.
Lynwood