"GUAGES" HOW IMPORTANT?????

[richfaa]

As a person who has been driving diesel busses of one kind or another for better than six years it sort of sounds to me that there are a lot of folks driving diesels that have little idea of how to care for them or have never taken the time to learn(from other forums of course) . CAT320 says it right. Warm up ..cool down...and these are Super duty/ Heavy duty trucks built to be hard workers. Now if you hang all kind of add- ons to them that increase Hp/Torque, etc that the motors were not designed to handle you may well need the guages to prevent you from scattering the engine/xmittion all over the roadway, anyone should know that Gas/ diesel pulling 10/13K you do not charge up a 8/9/11% grade at full throttle.When we began to drive diesels we had to learn "the care and feeding of a diesel motor" We went to the school yesterday pulled out all the cords and hooked up the busses to block heaters The temp is now averaging 20/25 overnight. Do you keep your Diesel in a warm place or do you have a block heater hooked up..Be nice to your diesel and it will be nice to you.... Of course if you like guages and you have the bucks..your choice..

[ols1932]

We've beaten this dead horse enough. We who have the gauges want them. Those who don't have them don't want them. I'm one who just wants to be safe rather than sorry. I've seen a lot of pickups with 5th wheels behind them along the Interstates with hoods raised, smoke bellowing out and wives crying because the truck broke down. You can be as careful as you want. It only takes once.

Orv

[Glenn and Lorraine]

It's like asking "What is the Best TV, GM, Ford or Dodge?" 99 and 44/100% of the time if you drive a GM your answer will be GM, if you drive a Ford than it'll be a Ford and same goes for Dodge. The same also applies to our trailers. If you have or don't have the reprograming/chip, oversize exhaust, gages etc than you have to recommend what you have. Our egos WILL NOT allow us to say anything different as we would be admiting we made a mistake.

BUT, ego or not in this case you will never hear me admit that I made a mistake by putting my hard earned bucks to much better use.

[sreigle]

John, my Ford comes with boost and tranny temp gauges built into the dash. But it did not come with a pyro/egt gauge, so I added the gauge. I will never have a diesel tow vehicle without the pyro. I use all three gauges religiously, especially when towing. Climbing serious grades while towing, the EGT will climb. When it gets to a level approaching dangerous for the engine, I can back off the throttle about 1 to 2 mph and see the egt settle to a more comfortable level. You can damage the engine by running EGT too high for too long. You also can cook the fuel, leaving a residue in the turbo, if you shut the engine off with too high EGT. Eventually that will damage the turbo.

I like to keep an eye on the transmission temperature, too. The Ford TorqShift runs cool but I want to know if it starts to heat up so I can back off and keep from damaging it. Likewise with engine temperature.

I watch boost on mine. Redline is about 34 or 35 psi but I've never seen it go above 28. I prefer to keep it no higher than 22 so use 22 as my point to back off the throttle a bit.

Climbing a 14 percent two mile long grade on Utah 12 this past year I was watching all gauges very closely. It would have been easy to exceed several of the limits on that grade. With the gauges I was able to keep all numbers in a safe range and still maintain decent speed.

[bsmeaton]

Well I had to learn to tow without any gauges - my factory cluster went on the blink my last trip home..speedo read 0..tach read 3K rpm at idle..and when I accelerated the tach needle got stuck on the boost gauge. Shortly thereafter they all fried. I just used my navigator for speed and the truck computer told me how many miles to empty for fuel. Beyond that I was blind, but the truck did fine.

The cluster was replaced by Ford under warranty, but I figure I'm not going to invest in any additional gauges when I can't even keep the ones I have working.

Brad

[c5racer]

Wonder why all the big rigs have gauges. Somebody needs to tell the spell checker how to spell gauges.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Gage or Gauge
Either spelling is correct

gauge#8194; /ge#618;d#658;/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[geyj] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, gauged, gaug¡Eing, noun

Also, especially in technical use, gage.

¡Vverb (used with object) 1. to determine the exact dimensions, capacity, quantity, or force of; measure.
2. to appraise, estimate, or judge.
3. to make conformable to a standard.
4. to mark or measure off; delineate.
5. to prepare or mix (plaster) with a definite proportion of plaster of Paris and mortar.
6. to chip or rub (bricks or stones) to a uniform size or shape.
¡Vnoun 7. a standard of measure or measurement.
8. a standard dimension, size, or quantity.
9. any device or instrument for measuring, registering measurements, or testing something, esp. for measuring a dimension, quantity, or mechanical accuracy: pressure gauge; marking gauge.
10. a means of estimating or judging; criterion; test.
11. extent; scope; capacity: trying to determine the gauge of his own strength.
12. Ordnance. a unit of measure of the internal diameter of a shotgun barrel, determined by the number of spherical lead bullets of a diameter equal to that of the bore that are required to make one pound: a twelve-gauge shotgun.
13. Railroads. the distance between the inner edges of the heads of the rails in a track, usually 4 ft. 8.5 in. (1.4 m) (standard gauge), but sometimes more (broad gauge) and sometimes less (narrow gauge).
14. the distance between a pair of wheels on an axle.
15. the thickness or diameter of various, usually thin, objects, as the thickness of sheet metal or the diameter of a wire or screw.
16. the fineness of a knitted fabric as expressed in loops per every 1.5 in. (3.8 cm): 15 denier, 60 gauge stockings.
17. Nautical. the position of one vessel as being to the windward (weather gauge) or to the leeward (lee gauge) of another vessel on an approximately parallel course.
18. Building Trades. the portion of the length of a slate, tile, etc., left exposed when laid in place.
19. the amount of plaster of Paris mixed with mortar or common plaster to hasten the set.

[Coro from Maryland]

Last summer my truck appeared to have a bit less power while climbing a hill without towing the trailer. Curious, I looked over at the pyro and watched it shoot up to 1140. Backed way off in time to prevent a meltdown. Turns out an injector had failed, and if I had not noticed the pyro, there would have been major engine damage. So I'll keep my BD X-monitor.

[sreigle]

Glenn, the first time you're towing up one of those long western grades you'll start to wonder if you're pushing the egt even though you are at just part throttle and think you are taking it easy. ON that fourteen percenter, 35 mph held the numbers in a safe zone but climbing to 37 or 38 pushed them higher than I'm comfortable with. In that case the speed limit was 35 anyhow because of the curves but without the gauges I might well have run that two miles at 37 or 38 mph. And towing I-70 in Colorado from the west, up the approximately 20 mile long climb to 11,000 plus feet to the Eisenhower tunnel you'd really appreciate the gauges. To each his own but I've seen enough to be absolutely convinced that I'm risking the engine towing grades without a pyrometer. This is another to each his own, I guess. By the way, my Ford is bone stock.

[Cat320]

Seems to me that if Ford/Dodge/GM wanted us to have all those guages and thought we needed all those guages, they would have come on the truck. This has been a long thread, and it all boils down to a bit of common sense.

[Montana Sky]

I agree with Steve, damage can be done on grades by not knowing exactly how hard your engine, turbo, and tranny is working.

[Hemlockusa]

OK, I HAVE MADE MY DECISION. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter. This forum is so great for information. I was going to ask one more question, but afriad it would cause a FIRE STORM...(WHICH SIDE OF A PANCAKE IS REALLY ""UP"")??
Thank you all for the information. Should any of you wonder what I am going to do, my truck will be parked at Compton Ridge Camp Ground MAY 2007 your welcome to look inside. Safe TRavels John

[bsmeaton]

hahahha- Isn't nice to get such a definitive answer John!

[sreigle]

1. The buttered side is up.

2. The speckled side is down. Unless speckled on both sides.

[skypilot]

I'd have to say the side with the most holes goes up (that way the syrup holds better as does the butter) !!!

[Dave e Victoria]

Not to beat a dead horse but, I guess I am different. I don't have gauges but would very much like to have them. Just haven't got around to it. I'd love to carry more fuel but just haven't got around to it yet. Do have an engine/tranny programmer but could very well get along with out and did for a long time. And I like my pancakes speckled on both sides with butter in between unless they don't come that way. Oh, and I really don't care if the toilet paper comes off the top or bottom of the roll. In fact, I never noticed the difference until some yoyo pointed it out.

[sreigle]

I'm with Dave on the TP. I don't care, over the top or off the bottom. But someone else in this house does care and I've found life is much nicer if I just go along with the program. So TP comes over the top in this household.

[sreigle]

Here's a long but informative discussion from the Banks Power site describing EGT and why it is important. Sorry so long. For the full article - http://bankspower.com/Tech_whyegt.cfm . Earlier in this article they mention the temperatures they quote are pre-turbo, which is where the article recommends the probe be placed.
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So why is EGT important? EGT is an indication of how hot the combustion process is in the cylinders, and the amount of “afterburning” that is occurring in the exhaust manifold. EGT is also directly related to the air/fuel ratio. The richer the air/fuel ratio in a diesel, the higher the EGT will be. Two things can create a rich mixture under heavy loads or at full throttle: the first is too much fuel, and the second is not enough air. That seems simple enough, but it’s the second part, not enough air, that could get a stock, unmodified truck or motorhome in trouble. Anything that restricts intake airflow, or intake air density, limits the air mass that gets to the cylinders. Think of it as the amount of oxygen getting to the cylinders to support the combustion of fuel. This could include: a dirty or restrictive air cleaner, a partially blocked air intake, high outside air temperature, high altitude, restricted airflow to or through the radiator or intercooler, and high water temperature. The vehicle’s water temperature gauge will provide a warning of a cooling system problem, but the other problems aren’t likely to be noticed without a pyrometer unless the driver notices excessive exhaust smoke. A pyrometer also reacts more quickly than the water temperature gauge, so it allows the driver to spot a problem sooner and avoid engine damage. A restrictive exhaust system can also reduce the airflow through the engine, resulting in a rich condition. Any of the above conditions can result in excessive EGT if the vehicle is working hard, such as pulling a heavy load, running at sustained high speed, subjected to climbing a long grade, etc.

We’ve already mentioned that excessive EGT can cause engine damage or turbocharger damage, but let’s get more specific. Which parts will fail first is a matter of the design and materials used in the various parts of the turbo-diesel, but usually it starts with the turbocharger. Under sustained excessive EGT, the square corners at the outer ends of the vanes, where the material is thinnest on the turbine wheel, can become incandescent and then melt, resulting in a rounding off of the square corners. If you or your mechanic finds this indication before anything more serious happens, consider yourself very lucky, because shortly after the tips melt, the turbine wheel goes out of balance and wipes out the turbocharger bearings, which may or may not result in shaft failure and destruction of the turbine and compressor wheels. Excessive EGT can also erode or crack the turbine housing. In extreme cases, high EGT can drive the turbocharger into an overspeed condition that exceeds the designed operating speed due to the additional heat energy. When this happens, either the turbine wheel or the compressor wheel may burst. If the turbo doesn’t go first, excessive EGT, if sustained, will damage the pistons. Such damage can include piston deformation, melting, burning, holes, cracking, etc. This damage is cumulative, so if you slightly burn a piston top, the engine may continue to run without problems, but the next time you run excessive EGT more damage may be done, and so on, until failure occurs. Piston failure can be catastrophic –- that means very expensive. At a minimum, an engine overhaul will be required, and that too is expensive. Excessive EGT can also cause exhaust manifold and cylinder head cracking. Exhaust valves can fail from high EGT as well. Among the first engine parts to suffer damage will be those made of aluminum since aluminum has a lower softening and melting temperature than steel or cast iron. Diesel pistons are aluminum, and a growing number of diesels also use aluminum cylinder heads.

We mentioned earlier that excessive EGTs are due to a rich air/fuel mixture, which can be caused by too much fuel. Too much fuel is typically the result of modifying a turbo-diesel for more power. Not all diesels are modified for speed or maximum pulling power; some diesels are modified for better towing and passing performance. There are many products on the market that claim to increase diesel power, but almost all of them increase fuel delivery at full power with little regard for EGT. It is superior engineering, extensive testing, and calibrated fuel management that set the Banks power systems apart. Banks systems, from Git-Kits through the top-of-the-line PowerPacks, are designed and built to avoid excessive EGT. Banks Power systems are engineered to give the best value in power and reliability.

So the big question is, what constitutes excessive EGT? If everything is working properly, 1250º to 1300º F. is a safe turbine inlet temperature, even for sustained running, mile after mile. Above 1300º F. things can start to get edgy. Remember, excessive EGT damage is cumulative. Over 1400º F., you’re usually gambling against a stacked deck and it’s only a matter of time until you lose. The higher the EGT, the shorter that time will be.

[patodonn]

Thanks, Steve! Gave me some extra insight as to "Why" if you have any sort of a "power chip" installed, and why my EGT is "redlined" at 1300. I hadn't realized that the turbine was the weak point...though it was all about the pistons...

Best, and safe travels!!

[Hemlockusa]

Steve - That was a great article, I am going to copy paste that sucker. OK - I am strightened out of the right pancake side is up and again agree with Steve inregards to the rules of the home on the toilet paper dispensing..... What great subjects when we have the get togeather in BRANSON IN MAY 2007... OH - Yes I am trying to be a salesman for the BRANSON GET TOGEATHER so please don't beat me up on that, I want to wear Glenn out up dating the attendance list. Safe Travels John