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05-25-2009, 05:55 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lawrenceville
Posts: 279
M.O.C. #5356
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Problem in Goshen
Sitting in Goshen trying to get answers and probable problem resolved regarding axle Camber/Toe causing tire wear on 14 month old 3400RL.
Question is: I undersand Lippert has a computer driven laser axle alignment system some place in Elkhart that can give total axle/spring/frame alignment verification with printouts about how a trailer is set up. Has anyone used or heard about this system and how do i contact them???
also a quick note, LonniB, thank you. You have no idea how much help and assistance you provide here on the forum and the help it provides to us members. Again, Thank you..
Randy
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05-25-2009, 06:17 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Blanc
Posts: 2,508
M.O.C. #5965
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Sorry I don't have an answer for you, Randy, but do agree on all the help LonniB has given. Thanks, Lonni
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05-25-2009, 07:42 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: _
Posts: 5,238
M.O.C. #6337
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Caution if the place is Bud's. Don't trust them, wrote about this in a post in the last month.
If Lippert owns it, that is one thing. Bud's is another.
Please post back if you find this computer place, it sounds very interesting and we want to hear how you do.
Good luck.
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05-25-2009, 08:12 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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If you haven't already I would suggest contacting Lippert at
Lippert Components
866-524-7821
www.lci1.com
Good luck
BTW-Yes, Lonnie is a huge asset to the MOC
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05-25-2009, 08:21 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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Glenn took the words out of my mouth (well computer screen).
Call Lippert. They have a pretty good reputation for customer service.
Toll Free Service Number: 1-866-LCI-SVC1 (1-866-524-7821)
Email: warranty@lci1.com
2703 College Ave
Goshen, IN 46528
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05-25-2009, 04:53 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texico
Posts: 1,917
M.O.C. #6150
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Just doing what I can to help, folks. No thanks necessary, but very appreciated.
Thank YOU all.
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05-27-2009, 01:51 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I agree, LonnieB has been an excellent resource for many here. It's really nice to know he's around and willing to share his knowledge.
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05-27-2009, 06:27 PM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Williamstown
Posts: 150
M.O.C. #6477
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Are your tires the same distance apart on the left as on the right. We brought our 3400 back for the second time to have it checked out because the right side tires were closer together than the left. Turns out the main Mor/ryde rubber section (dog bone) was broken on the left side since it was new. The rubber part is actually sandwiched between two steel plates that fit into the bracket on the frame. When the dealer pulled it out the rubber part was 90% separated from the steel plate. Without taking it apart there is no way to visually see the problem. Neither Keystone nor Mor/ryde would cover it because of the age even though I had the invoice that showed I originally brought it in for this problem when the unit was only 4 months old. I am not happy with Keystone at all on this one. My extended warranty approved replacement of both sides so it only cost me $100 instead of the total of $630 but I still think Keystone or Mor/ryde should stand behind their products a little more. I'm not sure if this is what your problem is, but you may want to take a look at the spacing between your tires on both sides.
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05-28-2009, 01:27 AM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lawrenceville
Posts: 279
M.O.C. #5356
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rubble, Yes spacing is 35 inches within 1/8 inch side to side, so hopefully the dog bone has not seperated.
The wet bolts are installed along with the upgrade Mor-ryde wet bolt upgrade bracket. The old bolts and hangers were of course worn and elongated with the plastic shims worn through.
As to the tire wear, finally got Keystone to convince Dexter to look at the tire wear. Dexter said yes, theres a loss of camber, but not sure why. Possable overloaded unit?? My basement is half empty, closets are half empty, only hlf the cabinets are empty. I'm a newbie and not a full timer, but i will sure have this unit weighted to the ounce.
The result to date, might be tires not balanced. Dosen't keystone balance the tires on new built units? No answer from that question.
So the question as it stands now is, why does an axle lose its camber in 14 months if the unit is not overloaded, i have not been driving over curbs as Wal-Mart, and the tires were supposed to be balanced at delivery.
One interesting point is that the axles are rated at 6,750 pounds but we call them 7,000 pound axels and the springs are rated at 3,500 pounds each.
More after we get the axles looked at and having the tires taken off and tested for balance to see how far out they are.
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05-28-2009, 01:46 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
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Leaseit,
It is my understanding that Keystone does NOT balance the tires they place on the Montanas.
I have balance done on my tires on our Montana. So far we have had no wear problems with our tires. Our problem has been blow outs and tread separation. Along with big "blister" appearing on side of tire. It seems as my mission in life is to be here to keep putting tires on our rig!
Good luck.
HamRad
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05-28-2009, 04:27 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Benson
Posts: 3,121
M.O.C. #1658
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Carol's right, no matter what Montana or anyone else tells you, stay away from Bud's
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05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by rubble express
Are your tires the same distance apart on the left as on the right. We brought our 3400 back for the second time to have it checked out because the right side tires were closer together than the left. Turns out the main Mor/ryde rubber section (dog bone) was broken on the left side since it was new. The rubber part is actually sandwiched between two steel plates that fit into the bracket on the frame. When the dealer pulled it out the rubber part was 90% separated from the steel plate. Without taking it apart there is no way to visually see the problem. Neither Keystone nor Mor/ryde would cover it because of the age even though I had the invoice that showed I originally brought it in for this problem when the unit was only 4 months old. I am not happy with Keystone at all on this one. My extended warranty approved replacement of both sides so it only cost me $100 instead of the total of $630 but I still think Keystone or Mor/ryde should stand behind their products a little more. I'm not sure if this is what your problem is, but you may want to take a look at the spacing between your tires on both sides.
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Are we talking about the Mor/ryde rubber bushing between the axles? Mor/Ryde relaced mine when I had one separate from the metal plate. Maybe I'm not thinking of the same thing as what you are talking about, though... Richfaa and I took my 2007 3400 to Josam Frame & Axle of Orlando and Mor/ryde paid for all parts and labor to replace it.
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05-28-2009, 06:08 PM
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#13
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Williamstown
Posts: 150
M.O.C. #6477
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Dave, it's the big rubber part where both springs hook up between the axles. If it's not adhered to the outer plates it will cause the axles to move around. Originally my dealer (Blue Grass RV in Lexington,KY) tried to tell me the movement was normal because of the design. I was aware that this system does "cant" the axles when cornering, but this problem showed itself when the trailer was moving straight ahead, and always the same side was closer together. That's why I have a problem with Keystone fixing it under the extended warranty when it's pretty obvious that this has been a problem from day one. I'm sure I'm over reacting, but waiting for the factory warranty to expire before you put any effort into finding out what the problem is and then charging the extended warranty company to fix it seems a little "unseemly" if not totally unethical. JMHO.
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05-29-2009, 02:42 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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I don't have Mor/ryde suspension on my unit, but I have toured their plant and spoken with their staff. My impression is that this is known problem, and that they (Mor/Ryde, not Keystone) will take care of it. If you have not all ready done it, I would be calling Mor/Ryde directly and find out what they will do for you.
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05-29-2009, 02:46 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Joe, is the rubber actually sliding down and off the plate? When I looked under the rig after my trip from MI to FL the yr before last, I immediately notice something hanging down. The rubber was shearing away from the steel plates. This caused the trailer to list slightly.
Mor/Ryde had no problem jumping on the situation immediately and lined up a repair facility for me. The Mor/ryde rep I talked to on the phone said this happens during the manufacturing process one out of XXX times - he had a number and I can't remember it. Rich (richfaa) was with me at the time... Rich, where are you?
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05-29-2009, 02:50 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Exactly as Dave stated. It is something that happens durng the manufacturing process of the ruber. It is rare but it happens. Mor-Rye took care of it. Wish I had known about this yesterday as Gary Wheler, Mor Ryde was here at this raly..
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05-30-2009, 04:21 AM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ronan
Posts: 385
M.O.C. #7615
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I just replaced my factory tires, both front tires wore heavly on the outside and both rear tires wore on the inside. When taken off the rims 2 of the tires had splits and cracking on the bead area of the tires. Saw that my rims were stamped 3042. Looking at my axels they say D60-8---P11 Dexter #53573 11235982 HF8650SC 68.50 I guess these are 6000lb axels. so my unit was close to max weight from the factory before being loaded.
Allen
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05-30-2009, 11:34 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Allen, we had similar problems with tires and 6000 lb axles. Last summer we had ours swapped out for the 7000 lb Dexter axles. An addiitonal benefit is the new axles also have self adjusting brakes. We've had no abnormal tire wear since the axle swap. I'm very happy with the results.
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05-30-2009, 06:33 PM
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#19
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lawrenceville
Posts: 279
M.O.C. #5356
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Since the story is so long, i will try to give the short version.
I now have another degree, this time from Axle Univ.
First to answer the part about being over weight.
Montana Hitched to the Tow Vehicle.
Truck Weight 10,840. Withfuel tanks fuel/No passangers.
Trailer Weight 11,200. Tanks dumped.
Truck Unhitched from Montana.
Truck Steer Axle 4,260
Truck Drive Axle 3,880
Gross Truck 8,140
Therefore, if i did this right:
Pin Weight would be 2,700
Trailer Weight would be 13,900.
So it dosen't look "Over Weight" to me.
Tires:
Not balanced at all and one tire replaced. One other tire had 7 1/2 ounces added outside and 1 3/4 ounces added inside to get it balanced. Other tires had weights added, bit more in what the tire guys said was more "normal" for those tires.
Result: When these wear out, i'm moving to G rated tires.
Alignment:
Front Axle had possitive camber in it along with zero degree toe and back axle had zero camber. Toe set and camber back to negative one degree along with toe done.
Wet bolt kit installed along with the Mor-ryde wet bolt shackle and all greesed. The bolts, hangers showed wear after 16,000 miles and plastic shims were worn throught. I took pictures of them just because.
As i was told in an example, if you went to Alaska, first thing to do when you get there is get the axles aligned, then upon return get them aligned again. Reason is because of frost heaves causing the road way to be like a roller coaster in some places which sets up a Porpoising effect which over stresses axles on trailers and bends the axles. You might run into some conditions like this in the US also, and be aware that you might overstress axles with these types of roadways.
Having said that and the fact that i believe the Dexter 7,000 pound axles might be running at about 85% capacity depending on how your unit is loaded, it might behoove you to make sure you don't spring an axle (lose some Camber) if you encounter road conditions that set up a porpoising condition.
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05-31-2009, 01:07 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Thanks, Randy! Good info.
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