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Old 05-20-2020, 08:35 AM   #1
buford
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M.O.C. #25775
Running new Coax for Satellite

After reviewing several threads and entries dealing with the issues related to trying to connect a Satellite through the convenience center, I have decided to replace the Living Room Satellite and Bedroom Satellite cable runs and connectors. This is after doing most of the suggested trouble shooting and finally running the cable through the window. Since it has been a known problem for quite some time that the Satellites don't like splitters and cheap cable, one would think Keystone would step up. We have a 2016 3000re, and my plan is to replace both runs with high quality RG6 or RG11, good connectors properly installed and remove any splitters. I will leave the Cable TV run alone as it works fine. My question is: Once I get behind the convenience center, do the cable runs to the front of the coach go into the belly and then forward or are they in the wall / floor space? Any suggestions or tips will be appreciated. Thanks
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:41 AM   #2
PNW Fireguy
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My personal experience on this subject did not require me to run new cabling. The quality of the cabling to my knowledge has not been enough to warrant recabling. In my experience once I was able o verify no damage to the cable runs using an ohmeter to measure resistance to ground I focused my efforts upon removing spliitters and recrimping the ends with quality compression fittings installed correctly. Once those were completed I have had no problem to date. Now with Keystone going to the Keytv system there are many threads addressing issues regarding that system. IMHO many issues are due to owners and dealers not knowing what equipment is needed when these systems are modified by owners. For example adding satellite. Many posts have incorrectly stated that Dish does not work with Keytv. It does work. I requires additional equipment that either the owner or installer are not aware of.


In our coach the bedroom tv cabling runs through the outer from the basement. The rear entertainment center TV cabling is much easier. Just follow the slide loom once you fish through the underbelly.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:14 PM   #3
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I went for the easy direct solution on my 3100rl. For the bedroom I ran a cable from the front storage into the propane tank bay and then straight up to where it entered the bedroom Under the dresser. Then I ran it into the hamper. I set my receiver on the dresser anyway, so now I just pull the cable out of a corner of the hamper and hook to my receiver.
For the living room I enter the camper under the dining room window and run behind the angled carpeted board that hides the other wiring. Then up inside the wall to the right of the fireplace into the top cabinet where the receiver is. You can remove the 110 volt receptacle to help fish the wire.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:05 PM   #4
Montana Man
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My satellite cabling ran through the ceiling. Your new cable can run wherever you want it to. Our satellite was sensitive to coax length. Half of that distance was consumed by running through the inconvenience center to the tv. I finally put a jack in the slide directly behind the satellite receiver. I now have more cable to put the dish where I need it and get great reception.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:51 AM   #5
buford
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Thank you. I think I will try the splitter removal (if i can find them) and replacing the connectors first. One thing I just realized is that despite the fact that there is separate "coach cable" and "living room satellite" input in the convenience center, there is only one connector behind the LR tv. Guess there must be a splitter connecting the cable and satellite runs. Going to be interesting.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:24 AM   #6
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I did a similar mod as Montana Man ... thru wall connector behind main TV that connects directly to receiver. You'll find trying to replace wiring on the existing runs near impossible to duplicate because of placement in ceiling and so on. Theunz has a good solution in that area. We don't need satellite coverage in the bedroom as we just use OTA signal there, so the thru wall deal was our easiest answer.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:30 AM   #7
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Buford it sounds as if you may have the new keytv systems where multiple system signals are accommodated within a single cable. You should check the forums document section for the instructional documents. It indicates the additional hardware you will need like a duplexer. Hope that proves to be helpful for you.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:14 PM   #8
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I just spent two hours setting up my Dish Tailgator for the first time, tracing my coax cables and finding splitters in my 2017 3160RL to get my Dish satellite to work with existing cabling from the web bay inputs. Here is what I found:

All splitters/Diplexers/multi switches should be found behind wet bay where you cable hooks to rig, behind each TV by removing the CATV outlets.

Behind the wet bay, I removed the panel in the under basement storage and found a "Steiner Satellite Multi Switch 3x4 attached to the underside of the floor above. I bypassed this by adding a double male connector between Orange Sat wire and White run wire to the LR TV.

At the LR TV there are is another splitter "Steiner Diplexer" that I also had to bypass with another double male from the end of the White coax from wet bay to short coax that goes into Wally receiver for the Dish.

My question is why these splitter/distribution devices don't work? Are there better devices that do the same job? I don't want to have to manually move wires when I switch between SAT, CABLE or Over The Air signals.

TIP: To trace a coax cable without using a special coax tracing tool, put a small ball of aluminum foil so it shorts out the copper conductor and threaded connector on one end of the coax cable you're trying to trace. Go to where you suspect the other end of the run is and use a multimeter on continuity mode (emits sound) and touch one lead to the copper center wire and the other lead to the outer threaded connector. This tip saved me an hour round trip drive to the big box store and $35 for a special coax tracing tool.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:57 PM   #9
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They do work for the delivered product. The problem arises when we wish to modify the delivered product by adding additional or replacment third party equipment that may not work with the provided devices. My Winegard satellite is not expecting to have multiple signals within the coax attaching to the receiver/dvr. I would have to isolate the satellite signal from any other sources.
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:31 PM   #10
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In my unit - the cable TV and the over-the-air antenna works great for all 3 TVs (living room, bedroom and outside TV). I don’t want to mess that up by removing diplexers and splitters - I just need a dedicated coax for Dish tailgater to hook to black box (VIP 211z in my case) for the living room TV.

I saw a great idea in a thread here about feeding coax thru the slideout wiring loom and up behind the fireplace - feed maybe a 8’ piece of coax thru the loom and let the end dangle out under the slideout..simple enough...but my fireplace unit is wedged so tight in the rough opening (my only theory) that I can’t pull the darn thing out even though I have removed all the visible anchor screws. This is still my goal for running the dedicated coax - I’m just waiting for someone here to provide the secret for pulling the fireplace out...because it feels like it is poured in concrete when I pull with all my might! And I don’t want to hammer and pry for fear of causing damage. There has got to be a simple solution...unless my theory is true...that the rough opening was cut 1/16” too snug and they forced it into the opening in the factory. Beats the heck outa me!
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:13 PM   #11
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M.O.C. #19387
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy View Post
They do work for the delivered product. The problem arises when we wish to modify the delivered product by adding additional or replacment third party equipment that may not work with the provided devices. My Winegard satellite is not expecting to have multiple signals within the coax attaching to the receiver/dvr. I would have to isolate the satellite signal from any other sources.
Sorry but I don’t get it, the delivered product does not come with a satellite antenna so exactly what does Keystone expect you to use the OEM “satellite” wiring without using a Winegard or Dish antenna?
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:24 PM   #12
buford
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M.O.C. #25775
"They do work for the delivered product." I too do not understand PNW Fireguy. With two dedicated "Satellite" input connections, one would reasonably believe that if they connected a Winegard satellite dish (Playmaker) they would get a signal to their television. It is difficult for me to believe that Keystone is not aware that there is a problem with their configuration. Is there a Satellite dish / receiver that works with existing cabling? Looks as if I will be drilling a hole in the wall of my RV or trying to get cable up into the fireplace.
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Old 05-23-2020, 04:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buford View Post
Looks as if I will be drilling a hole in the wall of my RV or trying to get cable up into the fireplace.
That is what I am trying to avoid by finding a route thru the loom and enter behind the fireplace...maybe someday...when I figure out how to remove the fireplace.

I think the OEM wiring and splitters may work for satellite systems that do not use low power supplied thru the coax (poor nontechnical description sorry) - but the low power signal needed for my tailgater can’t push thru the splitters.
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Old 05-23-2020, 06:12 AM   #14
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Yes the cabling labeled for satellite is in the coach but that does not mean that a after market sattellite system is a plug and play installation. The Keytv system requires a different approach than the older systems. I am pretty sure that someone loaded the manual here on the site previously. There are also previous threads with links.
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Old 05-23-2020, 08:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy View Post
Yes the cabling labeled for satellite is in the coach but that does not mean that a after market sattellite system is a plug and play installation. The Keytv system requires a different approach than the older systems. I am pretty sure that someone loaded the manual here on the site previously. There are also previous threads with links.
Per the KeyTV Quick Start Guide 2018 (Full manual attached below):

"What satellite providers are KeyTV compatible with?
KeyTV is fully compatible with DISH® Network and DirecTV® in the U.S., Shaw Direct and Bell in Canada."


For now my internal wiring works with my Dish once I bypass the "Multiswitch" and "Diplexer behind the TV. This at least for now allows me to not run my cable through a window or fish it through a slide and utilize the SAT input in the wet bay.

I will try and figure out if the Multiswitch or and Diplexer are bad or the connections are bad (they should ALL be hand tight and have 1/8" center copper wire sticking out beyond the connector. I really don't want to run a new cable just for satellite if I don't have to.

Here is another thread that is useful: https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ighlight=Keytv
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Old 05-27-2020, 02:01 PM   #16
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I have a 2007 Montana. I unplug one wire that makes a loop in the wall then connect my satellite to the outside entry connector and it works great. I have forgotten what disconnecting that short looped cable does but the over the air antenna still works to
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:36 AM   #17
lightsout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buford View Post
After reviewing several threads and entries dealing with the issues related to trying to connect a Satellite through the convenience center, I have decided to replace the Living Room Satellite and Bedroom Satellite cable runs and connectors. This is after doing most of the suggested trouble shooting and finally running the cable through the window. Since it has been a known problem for quite some time that the Satellites don't like splitters and cheap cable, one would think Keystone would step up. We have a 2016 3000re, and my plan is to replace both runs with high quality RG6 or RG11, good connectors properly installed and remove any splitters. I will leave the Cable TV run alone as it works fine. My question is: Once I get behind the convenience center, do the cable runs to the front of the coach go into the belly and then forward or are they in the wall / floor space? Any suggestions or tips will be appreciated. Thanks

DO NOT USE RG11... While you may think the oversized cable will improve flow it will actually be worse then RG6. The Oversized cable for short runs creates internal coax resistance due to the signal bouncing around in the coax. For long runs carrying a stronger signal RG11 is preferred for short runs in your home to RV not so much.

Here is a better explanation:

There are “reflections.”
This is the hardest part to explain, but I’ll try.

Think of how, when you pour water into a funnel it splashes back up. Pour too fast and you’ll lose more water from the splash than actually goes down the hole!

That same effect comes into play with cables, and we call it “reflection.” As a signal enters a connector, some of it “splashes back” onto the cable. It’s normally not a big deal and the part of the cable that is affected by reflections is usually about a foot or so. (That’s the reason commercial installers like cable lengths to be two feet at the minimum.) However, the bulky RG11 connector and the big thick cable combine to allow reflections to travel up to 50 feet back down the cable. Keep in mind that there’s a reflection on both sides and that’s why it’s a bad idea to have RG11 cables that are shorter than 100 feet.

When reflection happens, the overall quality of the signal suffers, just like when you get water drops on a window. Often times the signal is strong enough to overcome this, but the whole point of putting in RG11 cable in the first place is to make things better, not worse.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:50 AM   #18
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Let me add this. I just rewired my 3791RD for my Satellite. I was able to keep the run from the convenience center to the LR TV however I added a separate run for BR. At first I ran the RG6 from the convenience center to the satellite box located at bedroom TV so I had a 25" cable from the center plus 25-50' to the satellite. PICTURE WAS HORRIBLE.

So I removed that cable and relocated the satellite (Dish ) box in the basement 3' from the cable input I added in the convienience center. Then I ran a 20' HDMI to the BR TV and a 15' to the Basement TV I have added ( I used a HDMI splitter). Picture was PERFECT. Keep in mind that the Remotes for the Dish Box's will work through walls in fact I can turn on and change channels from anywhere in the RV even with my box located in the basement.

So Keep your RG6 as short ans possible and use HDMI to make up the difference. You can also add a HDMI booster if needed.

Our Class A we sold to buy our Montana had 4 TV's with one input and Satellite Box, however every TV was connected by HDMI (splitter) run throughout the coach by the factory and it worked perfectly and could use one box for all TV's.

Here is the entire DIY with pictures I did to add the basement TV and re run the cabling

https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=80474
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:52 AM   #19
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In ours, I just went in behind the convenience center and took out all the splitter crap connectors. Also behind the displays in bedroom and living room. Tested the direct cable runs from the convenience center to behind both TVs using a Klein Tools VDV512-101 Explorer 2 Coax Tester Kit from AMZN. Once they checked good, I got a Dish 1000.2, and a surveyors tripod from TV4RV.com. I hooked up to both connectors in the convenience center using 50ft Outdoor Dual RG-6 Coax Cable w/Ground Messenger 3Ghz 75 Ohm from AMZN. Once I got proficient at pointing the 1000.2 and having Dish turn on my 2 Wallys, it's a piece of cake.
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Old 05-28-2020, 12:41 PM   #20
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Right on
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