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Old 08-12-2020, 12:13 PM   #1
214skier
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377FL and 376FL owners thread

I thought I would start a thread for 377/376 FL owners--good spot to discuss any tips, tricks or questions about these unique floor plan rigs!
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Old 08-12-2020, 04:22 PM   #2
Patrickdoran
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Good idea. We bought ours sight unseen. We are very happy with it. However, I noticed how low the back end sits. I have a pretty level driveway, but where it meets the road it slopes up quite a bit and I was dragging the back end. I posted a thread about it here in MOC. I was going to go with a skid plate, but I ended up having small wheels welded on the rear. They work pretty well. I've had a lot of small ankle biter issues I had to fix myself. They weren't worth taking the whole rig in to get fixed under warranty.
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Old 08-25-2020, 07:50 PM   #3
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Our rig

thought i should post a photo.
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:52 AM   #4
NixonFamilyRV
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Greetings RV Friends,

I’m hoping to connect with other MHC 376FL owners here. We ordered ours in March of 2020, and just took delivery the first week of September. Bought it sight-unseen, though we had been able to take a tour of one in February before we made the final decision.

I feel like I’m struggling with a lot of disappointments with the RV. This isn’t my first new RV purchase, nor my first sight-unseen purchase. I fully expected numerous little ‘ankle-biter’ issues, and for the most part I’ve deal with the most annoying issues. But, honestly, we feel like Keystone really missed the mark in the quality department on this unit. We expected more for a “luxury” class unit. I’m waiting for the dealer to assist with a warranty claim for the LED strip that’s supposed to be across the top of the front cap (the unit arrived with that strip having been torn off and only about 6” of it were left, and it was pointing UP toward the roof...). I’ve recently discovered my rear AC does not appear to produce cool air, just blows outdoor air into the coach. That was a very unfortunate discovery while on our first trip out with the unit in Kansas City, MO. Yuck. It was HOT, and we were pretty miserable. There are a LOT of other dumb little issues I’m working through, like they mounted the microwave really crooked, we have blinds that don’t stay down when you pull them, other blinds not mounted even close to center to the window, one screen is the completely wrong size for the window and it just falls out, etc...

Right now, my main problem is the low tail. The dropped frame on the back, plus the length from the rear axle to the tail, seems like a bad combination. Additionally, the fresh water drain is clear back there at the tail, and I’ve scraped the tail enough times that the drain pipe has started leaking. It’s presently being held together with a generous amount of electrical tape, and I’ll be looking at options for relocating that drain. Seems that even the slightest of dip, even just getting in and our of some gas stations, was all it took for me to scrape the tail on the pavement. I’ve read online other owners have had little wheels welded to the tail to help. Is that really a viable solution? Wouldn’t that just put strain on the frame every time I whack the tail on the ground?

Another part of my trouble could be that my truck holds the trailer a little nose-high. Full disclosure: this is my first fifth-wheel trailer, but I’ve had several travel trailers. When building the hitch rig for this trailer, I opted to go with Pull-Rite’s CBT (clean bed technology) industry standard rail system. This system uses rails that are a little taller than standard rails that are bolted to the floor of the bed. I’m also using Pull-Rite’s Super Glide auto-slider hitch, which doesn’t have any height adjustment to it. I have a little over 9” of clearance between the bed rails and the bottom of the trailer overhang, which seems like a bit much. If I could get it lowered a couple of inches, I think it would really help.

Now that I’ve rambled a bit, this brings me to my second question for the group here. Does the 2021 MHC 376FL with the Lippert Rotaflex pin box offer any height adjustment? I’ve looked it over, and visually it appears that I cannot raise the pin box to lower the trailer. The pin box is already pretty close to the fiberglass that’s right above it, and I don’t see any holes left that would raise the box. It appears to already be at its highest adjustment point. As I mentioned earlier, I have just over 9” of clearance at the bed rails; bed floor to the top of my fifth wheel plate is almost exactly 20”. Partly because the Pull-Rite CBT ISR system uses rails that are about 3.25” tall, instead of the standard bolt-down rails that are closer to 1” off the bed floor if I’m not mistaken.

If I can’t lower the trailer at the pin box, my other options will require a fairly major change to the rig. Different hitch, different rails, maybe installing a gooseneck ball on the truck and trying the Andersen Ultimate, or changing trucks altogether and buying something with a factory puck system so I can attach the hitch directly to the floor of the bed.

In closing, I really want to love this trailer, but I’m struggling a bit. There’s plenty I do like about it, but right now I’m apprehensive to take it anywhere until I get it to ride level on my tow vehicle. I’m very hopeful that if I can lower the nose a couple of inches, it may help alleviate the headache of the tail dragging everywhere. Advice and questions are very welcome.

Thanks for reading,
Russ
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NixonFamilyRV View Post
Greetings RV Friends,

I’m hoping to connect with other MHC 376FL owners here. We ordered ours in March of 2020, and just took delivery the first week of September. Bought it sight-unseen, though we had been able to take a tour of one in February before we made the final decision.

I feel like I’m struggling with a lot of disappointments with the RV. This isn’t my first new RV purchase, nor my first sight-unseen purchase. I fully expected numerous little ‘ankle-biter’ issues, and for the most part I’ve deal with the most annoying issues. But, honestly, we feel like Keystone really missed the mark in the quality department on this unit. We expected more for a “luxury” class unit. I’m waiting for the dealer to assist with a warranty claim for the LED strip that’s supposed to be across the top of the front cap (the unit arrived with that strip having been torn off and only about 6” of it were left, and it was pointing UP toward the roof...). I’ve recently discovered my rear AC does not appear to produce cool air, just blows outdoor air into the coach. That was a very unfortunate discovery while on our first trip out with the unit in Kansas City, MO. Yuck. It was HOT, and we were pretty miserable. There are a LOT of other dumb little issues I’m working through, like they mounted the microwave really crooked, we have blinds that don’t stay down when you pull them, other blinds not mounted even close to center to the window, one screen is the completely wrong size for the window and it just falls out, etc...

Right now, my main problem is the low tail. The dropped frame on the back, plus the length from the rear axle to the tail, seems like a bad combination. Additionally, the fresh water drain is clear back there at the tail, and I’ve scraped the tail enough times that the drain pipe has started leaking. It’s presently being held together with a generous amount of electrical tape, and I’ll be looking at options for relocating that drain. Seems that even the slightest of dip, even just getting in and our of some gas stations, was all it took for me to scrape the tail on the pavement. I’ve read online other owners have had little wheels welded to the tail to help. Is that really a viable solution? Wouldn’t that just put strain on the frame every time I whack the tail on the ground?

Another part of my trouble could be that my truck holds the trailer a little nose-high. Full disclosure: this is my first fifth-wheel trailer, but I’ve had several travel trailers. When building the hitch rig for this trailer, I opted to go with Pull-Rite’s CBT (clean bed technology) industry standard rail system. This system uses rails that are a little taller than standard rails that are bolted to the floor of the bed. I’m also using Pull-Rite’s Super Glide auto-slider hitch, which doesn’t have any height adjustment to it. I have a little over 9” of clearance between the bed rails and the bottom of the trailer overhang, which seems like a bit much. If I could get it lowered a couple of inches, I think it would really help.

Now that I’ve rambled a bit, this brings me to my second question for the group here. Does the 2021 MHC 376FL with the Lippert Rotaflex pin box offer any height adjustment? I’ve looked it over, and visually it appears that I cannot raise the pin box to lower the trailer. The pin box is already pretty close to the fiberglass that’s right above it, and I don’t see any holes left that would raise the box. It appears to already be at its highest adjustment point. As I mentioned earlier, I have just over 9” of clearance at the bed rails; bed floor to the top of my fifth wheel plate is almost exactly 20”. Partly because the Pull-Rite CBT ISR system uses rails that are about 3.25” tall, instead of the standard bolt-down rails that are closer to 1” off the bed floor if I’m not mistaken.

If I can’t lower the trailer at the pin box, my other options will require a fairly major change to the rig. Different hitch, different rails, maybe installing a gooseneck ball on the truck and trying the Andersen Ultimate, or changing trucks altogether and buying something with a factory puck system so I can attach the hitch directly to the floor of the bed.

In closing, I really want to love this trailer, but I’m struggling a bit. There’s plenty I do like about it, but right now I’m apprehensive to take it anywhere until I get it to ride level on my tow vehicle. I’m very hopeful that if I can lower the nose a couple of inches, it may help alleviate the headache of the tail dragging everywhere. Advice and questions are very welcome.

Thanks for reading,
Russ
I can offer nothing to this other than the puck system can be added on some trucks. Ours didn't come with it, I negotiated with the Ford dealer to include the factory kit. Our son helped me (actually he did most of the work) install it in his driveway. Only had to raise the bed 4" and block it with 4x4's.
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Old 10-17-2020, 01:10 PM   #6
214skier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NixonFamilyRV View Post
Greetings RV Friends,

Iím hoping to connect with other MHC 376FL owners here. We ordered ours in March of 2020, and just took delivery the first week of September. Bought it sight-unseen, though we had been able to take a tour of one in February before we made the final decision.

I feel like Iím struggling with a lot of disappointments with the RV. This isnít my first new RV purchase, nor my first sight-unseen purchase. I fully expected numerous little Ďankle-biterí issues, and for the most part Iíve deal with the most annoying issues. But, honestly, we feel like Keystone really missed the mark in the quality department on this unit. We expected more for a ďluxuryĒ class unit. Iím waiting for the dealer to assist with a warranty claim for the LED strip thatís supposed to be across the top of the front cap (the unit arrived with that strip having been torn off and only about 6Ē of it were left, and it was pointing UP toward the roof...). Iíve recently discovered my rear AC does not appear to produce cool air, just blows outdoor air into the coach. That was a very unfortunate discovery while on our first trip out with the unit in Kansas City, MO. Yuck. It was HOT, and we were pretty miserable. There are a LOT of other dumb little issues Iím working through, like they mounted the microwave really crooked, we have blinds that donít stay down when you pull them, other blinds not mounted even close to center to the window, one screen is the completely wrong size for the window and it just falls out, etc...

Right now, my main problem is the low tail. The dropped frame on the back, plus the length from the rear axle to the tail, seems like a bad combination. Additionally, the fresh water drain is clear back there at the tail, and Iíve scraped the tail enough times that the drain pipe has started leaking. Itís presently being held together with a generous amount of electrical tape, and Iíll be looking at options for relocating that drain. Seems that even the slightest of dip, even just getting in and our of some gas stations, was all it took for me to scrape the tail on the pavement. Iíve read online other owners have had little wheels welded to the tail to help. Is that really a viable solution? Wouldnít that just put strain on the frame every time I whack the tail on the ground?

Another part of my trouble could be that my truck holds the trailer a little nose-high. Full disclosure: this is my first fifth-wheel trailer, but Iíve had several travel trailers. When building the hitch rig for this trailer, I opted to go with Pull-Riteís CBT (clean bed technology) industry standard rail system. This system uses rails that are a little taller than standard rails that are bolted to the floor of the bed. Iím also using Pull-Riteís Super Glide auto-slider hitch, which doesnít have any height adjustment to it. I have a little over 9Ē of clearance between the bed rails and the bottom of the trailer overhang, which seems like a bit much. If I could get it lowered a couple of inches, I think it would really help.

Now that Iíve rambled a bit, this brings me to my second question for the group here. Does the 2021 MHC 376FL with the Lippert Rotaflex pin box offer any height adjustment? Iíve looked it over, and visually it appears that I cannot raise the pin box to lower the trailer. The pin box is already pretty close to the fiberglass thatís right above it, and I donít see any holes left that would raise the box. It appears to already be at its highest adjustment point. As I mentioned earlier, I have just over 9Ē of clearance at the bed rails; bed floor to the top of my fifth wheel plate is almost exactly 20Ē. Partly because the Pull-Rite CBT ISR system uses rails that are about 3.25Ē tall, instead of the standard bolt-down rails that are closer to 1Ē off the bed floor if Iím not mistaken.

If I canít lower the trailer at the pin box, my other options will require a fairly major change to the rig. Different hitch, different rails, maybe installing a gooseneck ball on the truck and trying the Andersen Ultimate, or changing trucks altogether and buying something with a factory puck system so I can attach the hitch directly to the floor of the bed.

In closing, I really want to love this trailer, but Iím struggling a bit. Thereís plenty I do like about it, but right now Iím apprehensive to take it anywhere until I get it to ride level on my tow vehicle. Iím very hopeful that if I can lower the nose a couple of inches, it may help alleviate the headache of the tail dragging everywhere. Advice and questions are very welcome.

Thanks for reading,
Russ
Hey Russ,

So sorry your time with the 376 is off to a rough start. We took delivery of ours in August and had very good luck. We are coming from a Grand Design Solitude--and in my view the two rigs are very comparable from a "luxury / quality" POV.

A few comments--not sure if they will be helpful or not.

1) We tore off our front-cap LED, it caught a tree limb heading up our driveway. Keystone sent us a replacement I installed (using a little silicon to help really adhere to the rig).

2) We had our rig in 104' temperatures in August and the bedroom (while it didn't 'pump' cold air) it got the temperature down below 75' in the master bedroom which made it plenty pleasant for sleeping. Yours should be the same.

3) As you will note in my other threads about height--we have struggled with this issue too. We are running on a 2019 F350 Platinum and the 5th wheel sits about 2" ish higher front to back. We did upgrade the tires on the rig that helped lift the box closing some of that gap--but there is still noticeable lift. We also run airbags for extra stability. I have found that I need to dump the air in the bags if I approach any "tall" gas station entrances, and this seems to help. I am still considering doing a body lift on the Montana to bring it level and gain extra clearance in the drop frame. I am pretty confident that this will correct any drag issues in the future. My local shop that does suspension work quoted me $600 in labor to install the leveling blocks on the 5th wheel. I am thinking about 1.5" will bring everything square. Will report back when I do this.

I do share some frustration here. we didn't discover the height issue until AFTER we signed--obviously the last step is hook up to truck and leave. Our Grand Design rode perfectly level with no issues--so why would I ever consider there might be a problem with Montana. What is astounding to me is the fact I can not believe Keystone didn't consider F350 dimensions when they designed the rig--that does not seem likely. so what was the trade off?

4) Rear water drain. One of our early trips, I drug the rear end and shaved off the drain valve. It leaked for me too. Fortunately its a 1/2 standard fitting that was easy to buy a brass valve from the local hardware store and replace the factory solution with something less protrusive.
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Old 10-17-2020, 02:37 PM   #7
NixonFamilyRV
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Originally Posted by R.S.O'Donnell View Post

I can offer nothing to this other than the puck system can be added on some trucks. Ours didn't come with it, I negotiated with the Ford dealer to include the factory kit. Our son helped me (actually he did most of the work) install it in his driveway. Only had to raise the bed 4" and block it with 4x4's.
Thank you for reading my rant, and taking the time to reply! I will investigate what my options might be to have the factory puck system installed. Frankly, knowing what I know now about my truck, I wish I had just done that in the first place. Now I have 4 big holes drilled in my truck bed for the Pull-Rite ISR system, and I'm pretty sure that the factory puck system puts the holes in slightly different places. I would likely have to remove the expensive hardware that I bolted to the truck frame under the bed, and accept the fact that I would have 8 big holes in my truck bed. I'll have to consider if that's OK, or if I'm better off starting over with a truck that was built with the puck system to begin with.

Thank you!
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:51 PM   #8
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214skier,

Thank you for your reply. Your comments were very helpful indeed:

1) The dealer is helping with the warranty claim on the LED strip. I asked that they just send me the LED strip for me to install myself. Super minor issue, but super annoying that it arrived that way. But, ok. Stuff happens. We'll fix it.

2) It's really quite reassuring to hear you say that your coach is comfortable in hot weather, because that was definitely not our experience a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't being too analytical of the A/C performance at the time because we were just parked on a family member's property on plain old 15A residential service, so I was only trying to run one A/C at a time anyway. But when I got it to an RV park later in the week on 50A service, I was expecting a nice cool down from having both A/C units running at full power. That's when I discovered that the rear unit isn't chilling the air coming in at all, it was just blowing warm ambient air in from outdoors. Bummer. I don't have a dealer local to me, so I'll find a way to handle that issue eventually.

3) I also run airbags on my truck for stability. I also started to learn that dumping air out of the bags when coming into town limits made it a little bit less stressy getting in and out of gas stations and parking lots. However, even when I let the truck squat as much as it's going to, I'm still nose-high, and tail-low. I'll attach a photo of the rig that was taken at a rest stop on the first trip out about two weeks ago.

Regarding lifting the suspension on the trailer to help level it with the truck, does that make the trailer actually ride taller on the road? That's actually a concern of mine, I don't want to make the trailer any higher than it already is. I'm at about 13' 6" at the top of the front A/C when hitched to my truck with the airbags pressurized.

Thank you!
Russ
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Old 10-18-2020, 11:38 AM   #9
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214skier,

Thank you for your reply. Your comments were very helpful indeed:

1) The dealer is helping with the warranty claim on the LED strip. I asked that they just send me the LED strip for me to install myself. Super minor issue, but super annoying that it arrived that way. But, ok. Stuff happens. We'll fix it.

2) It's really quite reassuring to hear you say that your coach is comfortable in hot weather, because that was definitely not our experience a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't being too analytical of the A/C performance at the time because we were just parked on a family member's property on plain old 15A residential service, so I was only trying to run one A/C at a time anyway. But when I got it to an RV park later in the week on 50A service, I was expecting a nice cool down from having both A/C units running at full power. That's when I discovered that the rear unit isn't chilling the air coming in at all, it was just blowing warm ambient air in from outdoors. Bummer. I don't have a dealer local to me, so I'll find a way to handle that issue eventually.

3) I also run airbags on my truck for stability. I also started to learn that dumping air out of the bags when coming into town limits made it a little bit less stressy getting in and out of gas stations and parking lots. However, even when I let the truck squat as much as it's going to, I'm still nose-high, and tail-low. I'll attach a photo of the rig that was taken at a rest stop on the first trip out about two weeks ago.

Regarding lifting the suspension on the trailer to help level it with the truck, does that make the trailer actually ride taller on the road? That's actually a concern of mine, I don't want to make the trailer any higher than it already is. I'm at about 13' 6" at the top of the front A/C when hitched to my truck with the airbags pressurized.

Thank you!
Russ
HI Russ,

Yes, the body lift on the 5er will increase its height overall; however, if you are moving to level the rig, what is increasing in height is mid and rear, bringing that to level with the nose. So generally, you will not be increasing height above the highest point on your rig right now.
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:00 PM   #10
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HI Russ,

Yes, the body lift on the 5er will increase its height overall; however, if you are moving to level the rig, what is increasing in height is mid and rear, bringing that to level with the nose. So generally, you will not be increasing height above the highest point on your rig right now.
Ok, gotcha. That makes sense. Any idea if raising the trailer does anything to the warranty?

Thank you,
Russ
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:04 PM   #11
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Trying again to attach a picture of the rig, just for fun. I greatly appreciate connecting with other owners of the same unit. You can see that I'm a little nose-high here.
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:48 PM   #12
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Ok, gotcha. That makes sense. Any idea if raising the trailer does anything to the warranty?

Thank you,
Russ
I am fairly certain it would void any suspension warranty. I am leaning this way and taking the risk on warranty--there are several threads here and on RV.net talking about the viability of this. Most guys have very good luck with no long-term stability issues.
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:48 PM   #13
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Trying again to attach a picture of the rig, just for fun. I greatly appreciate connecting with other owners of the same unit. You can see that I'm a little nose-high here.
Our rigs sit the same.
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