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Old 05-27-2022, 07:37 PM   #21
RipNC
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The arm is straight though if you look at it, the end drops a bit as the slide goes out. The slide room floor is what rocks as it moves in/out over the white glide strip. Watch your slide as you bring it in/out (watch both inside and outside) and you'll see. The wear guides are plastic (see middle photo in post 5 where I am measuring the spaces between the wear guides).
 
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Old 05-28-2022, 04:38 AM   #22
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love threads like this, thanks for taking time to post.


So when we did our PDI I noticed the kitchen slide doing that rocking motion as it went out. The problem and fix discussed here will improve/eliminate that? Does this indicate that the brand new set up already having this crowning issue?

Since we didn't get to take the rig home I can't check yet to see what is going on.

Thanks again
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Old 05-28-2022, 06:44 AM   #23
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No, that is just the way these slides work. In order to get (somewhat) flush to the interior floor they must drop down when extended and conversely need to ride up and over that white guide strip, then, as they come in they reach the tipping point (think see-saw or bongo board) until they pull tight against the side of the trailer. Slides on rollers and schwintek slides operate straight in and out.

I think it is a combination of factors that can cause the crowning - slide adjusted incorrectly, weight (our issue was under the residential fridge) and the outer arm being too thin. I think our slide was never adjusted properly and when closed the inner arm was pushing against the top of the outer arm - it made creaking noises as it went out. That noise has gone away since using the slide pads shown in my post #15 above, the pads actually stop the inside edge from angling down as the slide reaches that tipping point on the way in and keeps it more level on the way out helping the rack stay pressed to the gear pack.

Lippert did change the outer arm from a single wear guide at the top to 2 wear guides but they only allow the inner arm to slide more quietly and don't prevent crowning. The crowning happens slowly, our rig is a 2021 that we are longtiming in (we were fulltime for 10 months but now own a home in FL). Look at where the inner arm is when slide is closed, it should not be pushing up against those wear guides on the outer arm (per Lippert). Maybe hard to see but it you can slide something thin (feeler gauge) freely between the inner arm and the wear guides your slide is adjusted ok (at least as far as this issue goes). There are lots of adjustments that can be made on these slides and Lippert has lots of info out there. They do have a video on through frame hydraulic slide adjustment, but the slide has interior rollers where ours have the white plastic glide strip (to allow the "flush" slide floor). Some info in that video is very wrong for our slides, specifically the use of measurements from the slide floor to the inner and outer arms. DON'T follow that measurement advice with flush floor type slides (I also confirmed this with Lippert).

Lastly, be careful using any techs to mess with your slide! Before I really dove into the details of this issue and started addressing it myself, I had a mobile tech come out and spend 2 hours and only managed to actually break a tooth on the gear pack. Sent him away and started down this rabbit hole on my own. Installing the new gear pack and using the slide pads were intended to allow us to get our rig to Morryde for our IS installation (6 cycles of the slides over 1 week period) snd the slide pads worked way beyond my expectations. Slides actually worked better on that trip (week of 5/14) than they ever have.

One note about the slide pads: the opposing slides work on path of resistance when you open and close. When using the slide pads the resistance is lessened to the extent that the slides may not open in the same order as before using the pads and may both move at the same time.

This the end of my "stream of consciousness" on this question, sorry for rambling...
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Old 05-28-2022, 06:46 AM   #24
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I was not aware that they were making these outboard brackets. In 18 years across four Montana’s we have had a slide issue twice. So, not everyone will see this as long as you own your Montana. If you do have the problem, it is a fairly easy fix, if you are handy. I have done this twice. The last time in January, we were on the road and broke the pinion. Our dealer got us in for service the next day at a dealer on the road, overnighted the parts to them and provided this repair procedure. That dealer in Albuquerque would not follow the Lippert TSB. I got it back and the slide once again came out crooked. Did the fix myself in a Harvest Host parking lot. Took longer to go get tools to cut the washer than to do the fix. Here is the link. https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0002436.pdf The reason I am chiming in is shortly after we did this fix in January, we were in Quartzsite and ran into another MOC member with slide issues. Camping World had “fixed” his unit by welding a bunch of washers. For months he couldn’t put his main slide out. He ended up taking it to Affinity. They told him they couldn’t fix it. He went to Lippert and they had him on the road the same day. I know the small split washer works. It looks as though the support assembly would work if it was sized properly. I would hesitate to weld anything there. We have a good extended warranty. Hopefully, I never have another issue. Will be on my list at rally.
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Old 05-28-2022, 07:11 AM   #25
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Ron,
I posted the Lippert pdf of the cut washer fix in post 16, but rep I spoke with about using the cut washers recomened the service assembly instead (though we now know it doesn't fit). Improper slide adjustment and residential fridge weight seem to be the common factor (again per Lippert CS rep).

I lost one washer on our Morryde trip, probably the pavement pounding on 65N above Elizabethtown, KY. Did you do anything to secure your washers? I cut mine fairly tight so I was surprised one of the 2 was gone after 7 days (6 slide cycles). I was thinking a dab of 4200 on top of washer. Lippert guy said they used to tack weld the washers (apparently he didn't like that either).
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Old 05-28-2022, 07:21 AM   #26
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PS - on my list for the rally too! Will be interesting to see/hear more on this.
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Old 05-28-2022, 07:26 AM   #27
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We have put thousands of miles and lots of slide cycles without issue. So, we have been happy so far. I did not secure it.
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Old 06-04-2022, 06:55 AM   #28
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Update on Lippert Service Assembly

On my 4th or 5th tech person response, it appears that there are 2 versions of this assembly. LCI sent me 2 - 364331 (which won't work) and now waiging to hear if they are going to send me the second version (366450) which should fit based on this attached drawing (drawing doesn't show the hole center spacing for the wear guide "nubs" so hopefully they match).

This one will require straightening the crowned area before installing the "service assembly" (aka bracket).

Will post more once complete...
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File Type: pdf 366450.pdf (41.1 KB, 19 views)
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Old 06-04-2022, 08:51 AM   #29
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I have been slow to come to the party on this. I totally misunderstood what piece of metal was experiencing "crown". My sketch below illustrates what I thought was the problem.

Sketch B. - I thought the support beam was bending (crowning) and I did not understand how the apparatus that Lippert sent was supposed to do to correct that bend.

Sketch A. - I think this sketch illustrates where the crown is occurring. Lippert's fix is to add strength to the top of the sleeve to resist the slide-out beam when it gets racked upward for whatever reason. You said this bent portion of the tube needs to be straightened out before you install the Lippert fix - correct?
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Old 06-04-2022, 09:10 AM   #30
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Mike,

Here are shots of a crowned outer arm (meaning the extending inner arm retracts inside the outer arm) and a good outer arm w/o crowning. BTW the good one is on the same slide but at the opposite end from the residential fridge. Sorry for the rotation/orientation issues on the photos...
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Old 06-06-2022, 06:09 PM   #31
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My 22 2131RL has the exact same problem. The skipping has been getting worse the more slide cycles and both outer tubes have severe crowning.

The description in the thread of how the slide rocks and loads and unloads the gear pack is spot on.

Obviously the 2022 model still has the problem with crowning due to the thin gauge of steel tubing and misadjustment from the factory.

Dropping it off with the dealer next Monday for a fix under warranty and will be sharing this information with them.

Total days used so far is 20. Not impressed.
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Old 06-06-2022, 06:39 PM   #32
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Hooterville, have you tried the Lippert fix above? If the teeth aren’t broken and it’s in time, it’s a fifteen minute fix, takes 1 or 2 5/16” washers. We did one yesterday, including replacing the gear and re-timing in 39’ 54”.
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Old 06-06-2022, 06:44 PM   #33
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I will be notching some washers at my son's house tonight and will install them tomorrow morning.

We are on the road so no access to my normal well stocked garage.
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Old 06-06-2022, 06:59 PM   #34
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A vice and grinder or hacksaw will do. Use a pry bar to push the two wear tabs down. Then use a thin needle nose to push the split washer above the tab of the wear tab (onto the shaft). You may need a large blade screwdriver to push it onto the shaft. Let me tell you it is unbelievable how much difference that makes. Best of luck. I feel sorry for people that can’t do things themselves. Ours broke teeth in January. Our dealer got us into a dealer and got the gear replaced, but they would not install the washers. Slide came out crooked. Installed the washers, retimed and no issues since. Even though it was under warranty, we were going to be out for months. The Albuquerque dealer said I need extensive parts and would be months. At Quartzsite we met a member that had their slide unit “fixed” by Camping World. He ended up taking it to Lippert because after CW butchered it there wasn’t anyone else willing to tackle it. Best of luck and keep us posted.
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Old 06-06-2022, 07:31 PM   #35
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Thanks for the advice.

I have re-timed my slide so many times now I have it down to less than 5 minutes.
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Old 06-06-2022, 09:02 PM   #36
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I’ve been catching up on this thread and am wondering if the repair is something that should be done pre-emptively or if the inner tube is not touching the top of the outer tube when the slide is in is it ok and should just be watched for any change. Tia
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Old 06-06-2022, 09:43 PM   #37
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Based on what I saw at the dealer with the slide jumping I will be adding the washers as soon as I get it home as it sounds like a very simple and easy fix to improve the operation. One thing I noted about the slide is that it moves quickly and I would say a bit too quickly for it's size which appears to contribute to the issue. If the slide were to move slower or at least started slow it would be smoother, maybe not solve but improve the issue. For me once we get to were we are going and are getting set up I am really not in that big of a hurry.

Question: I am assuming the jumping or rocking motion makes it skip teeth or breaks teeth which causes the slide to get out of time? Does anyone know of a thread on here that explains how to retime the slide?

Since this sounds like a common problem it would be nice if Keystone just corrected it or at least directed the dealers to correct it before it is delivered. Just saying.

Great thread thank you to the OP who started it, much appreciated.
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Old 06-07-2022, 06:32 AM   #38
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I too did the washers as a temp fix, used cutoff wheel on Dremel tool and visegrips. I did lose one while traveling (6 cycles in 7 days). A Lippert tech told me the used to weld the washers in place before the service assembly was created.

I've made spare cut washers and if Iever get the correct sized service assembly I still will try that instead (I'll remove the washers and save them just in case).

BTW - I did read a post (I beleive it was on an SOB forum) that a retired Lippert guy (that was reportedly their slide guru) said that once it crowns it should crown no further, so the cut washers should be fine if they stay in place. I tried to cut mine tight enough (less than the full 5/16 suggested in the LCI pdf) to require pushing a bit to get them on, still lost one. So, keep an eye on them and make a few spares.

Again, I'll post back if/when I get the second size service assemly and install it, I have not heard back from Lippert yet on if/when they'll send it.
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Old 06-07-2022, 04:13 PM   #39
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I cut some washers last night and installed in less than 10 minutes. Follow the steps recommended by a few fellow posters.

I also picked up a plastic/nylon slide pad that's a different brand than previously mentioned and used them on the fridge end of the slide.

Finally I can cycle the slide in and out with out the ratcheting sound of gears jumping. It is the smoothest it has ever been. I also adjusted the vertical slide to keep a load on the gear pack throughout the stroke.

I am still planning to use the 366450 Assembly to straighten and reinforce the tube as I look at the use of the washers as an effective band aid solution. It is no fun wrenching on the slide tubes and gear pack in the rain.

I think the reason I have been having issues is a combination of;
Fridge is always full and heavy.
Slide was way out of adjustment as delivered.
We travel a lot with it 4000 miles so far since April on less than smooth roads
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