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Old 07-24-2007, 07:14 AM   #1
neighborman
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Diesel additive - yea or nay

Maybe someone can help me out here. Most folks know that in 2007, all diesel trucks sold new have to use the ultra low (15ppm) sulfur diesel fuel. This new fuel is supposed to be compatible in older diesels, such as my 2000 7.3 Powerstroke.

I've read conflicting things about this, and have been using an additive, Diesel Kleen, by Power Service as in insurance policy. I've heard that the new fuel might not have enough lubricity for the injector pump. Is this a good thing to do, or am I just wasting my money? Thanks, Don
 
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:58 AM   #2
Hemlockusa
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If you have the change in your pocket, I believe it's good insurance. I don't think anyone REALLY KNOW'S. This fuel has just been required since the first of the year. We will all see the outcome five or six years from now. Again Don, I would do the additive, at least in your mind, your doing the best you can for your engine... mtcw John
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:52 AM   #3
kerry
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Don, I think your doing the right thing. there is a rather lenghtly article on the TDR forum, you might check it out. Personally I use Stanadyne treatment. If you get a new truck with the particulent filter, you probable don't need the additive, it might mess up the new filtering system. Kerry
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:30 AM   #4
hazmic
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I use it[Power Service] every other tank full. Oil company's say that you do not need to add anything but the additives won't hurt the motor. Figure that one out. I like the others add the additives for piece of mine. Also you might want to check on algae in the diesel fuel and the additives you might want to add to keep from getting Algae. I use both.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:06 AM   #5
HughM
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I've used Diesel Kleen for 10 years and have never had a problem that was fuel related. Like Hazmic I also use it every other tank full. It helps clean the injectors, boost the cetane rating and add lubricity to the fuel pump and turbo. I've never heard of anybody that had problems relating to the use of Diesel Kleen.
Hugh
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:00 PM   #6
stiles watson
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My mechanic said I better use something because the fuel now isn't what it was when the 7.3 was built. He also said Diesel Kleen from Walmart is as good as any. So I use it.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:18 PM   #7
Glenn and Lorraine
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Never used an additive in any of my diesels, never will. Never had a problem. My 05 Duramax has 25,000 miles on the ULSD and not a sign of any problems. The price of a gallon of diesel is high enough without adding an unproven, unnecessary additive. By "unproven" I mean it has not been proven as needed with the ULSD.
To me, not having a problem from using a certain additive is meaningless especially so if there is no proven reason to be using it in the first place. Additives, in all probability, won't hurt the motor but it also won't hurt the additive manufacturers pocket either.

Prove me wrong and I'll use an additive and proof DOES NOT come from any other source other than, in my case, GMC. It doesn't come from the additive manufacturers nor does it come from some diesel forum where you have no idea who is giving you this information. For all we know the writer is the ad exec with the additives advertising company.
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Old 07-24-2007, 02:55 PM   #8
Mudchief
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Glenn, I am like you I have never ran anything in mine. However i put my 05 in the shop today because the fuel mileage around town dropped from around 17 to around 13. They went through it and could not find anything wrong. They told me they thought the injectors were dirty and to run some injector cleaner in my tank for the next 5 tanks. We will see I hope they are right. Now if it gets better is it because of the additive or what was causing the problem in the first place. I asked the GM dealer if they had any additive and was told they don't sell any.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:30 PM   #9
pud2
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I use the diesel kleen from wal-mart but would also like to say that ford also sells the motor craft additive. I have found there is a little diff. in fuel mileage especially when pulling.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:53 PM   #10
kerry
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Just for the record, when I started using stanadyne for ulsd my mileage went up 1 MPG. Kerry (and my engine is quieter)
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:04 PM   #11
neighborman
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Thanks for all the input, folks. I think for now I'll risk losing a little money and continue to use the diesel additive. It may not be needed, but I doubt that it will hurt anything. I guess the jury will be out for awhile on this one. Don
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:15 PM   #12
ols1932
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by neighborman

Thanks for all the input, folks. I think for now I'll risk losing a little money and continue to use the diesel additive. It may not be needed, but I doubt that it will hurt anything. I guess the jury will be out for awhile on this one. Don
I've used Lucas Fuel Treatment or Diesel Kleen since my truck was new in '95. I didn't see any reason to quit when ULSD came out, especially when it runs somewhat dryer than the original diesel.

Orv
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:27 PM   #13
Imp
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We started using the WalMart additive when we started using ULSD. When we didn't use it our mileage went way down. We also had a friend who didn't use it and had major problems with his F350 truck. It was an expensive fix. I had an interesting experience driving to Calgary about 3 weeks ago. Not towing. When I went to fill, I couldn't tell if it was ULSD or LSD. It wasn't posted on the pump and when I asked the clerk, they didn't know either. Shell was the only one we found that had 2 pumps, one with Ultra on the label and the other with no label. I would love to know what they do differently. I took the other (which was cheaper)and did not add the additive and was getting 19mpg through the Rockies. We are back in the states and getting 16 to 17 mpg not towing. I loved that 19.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:22 PM   #14
mgdg
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This was sent to me by Daimler Chrysler Canada
ATTENTION:
DEALER PRINCIPAL
SERVICE MANAGER
PARTS MANAGER
SUBJECT:
TECH-TIPS # 02– ULTRA LOW SULPHUR DIESEL (ULSD) FUEL AND MAINTENANCE INFORMATION
Several new diesel engine equipped vehicles released this year as well as future products will require the
use of Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuel (ULSD). Currently there seems to be some confusion or lack of
knowledge in the marketplace regarding the availability and use of ULSD. With that in mind, please
review the following information as it will assist you in answering your customers’ questions regarding this
new fuel and its use in our products.
What is ULSD?
ULSD is a diesel fuel that contains a maximum sulphur content of 15 ppm (parts per million). In
comparison, diesel fuel available before recent regulation changes took affect may have had sulphur
content as high as 500 ppm for on-road fuel (referred to as low sulphur diesel or LSD) or as high as 5000
ppm for off-road fuel.
Why is ULSD required?
ULSD is required in order to enable the operation of the advanced emission control systems used on
most 2007 vehicles and prevent damage to these systems. These advanced systems, such as diesel
particulate filters (DPF), are necessary in order to meet the new diesel engine emission standards
implemented for 2007.
ULSD availability/timing:
Refiners were required to begin producing ULSD as of June 1, 2006. All on-road fuel sold at retail
outlets was required to be ULSD as of Oct 15, 2006. Off-road (road tax exempt or dyed) diesel fuel
sulphur reduction will be phased in over the next 5 years eventually matching the on-road requirements.
Canada / U.S. requirements:
In Canada 100% of the on-road fuel sold will have to meet the ULSD requirement vs. initially only 80%
in the U.S. Retail fuel pumps in the U.S. must be clearly labelled to indicate which type of fuel is being
dispensed (ULSD or LSD) where as pumps for on-road fuels in Canada do not require labelling since they
will 100% ULSD. If a retailer in the U.S. is selling both types of fuel they must ensure the 2 products are
completely segregated to avoid cross contamination. By 2010 all U.S. retail outlets for on-road diesel fuel
must be 100% ULSD.
ULSD use in older vehicles:
Engine and vehicle manufacturers expect ULSD to be fully compatible with the existing fleet and do
not anticipate owners will have to make changes to their current vehicles in order to use the new fuel.
ULSD will also provide emission reduction benefits when used in older vehicles. The transition to ULSD
may dislodge deposits accumulated in vehicle fuel tanks which may require replacing fuel filters ahead of
their regularly scheduled maintenance and this would also apply to filters on storage tanks and
dispensing pumps.
NOTE: The Canadian Petroleum Products Institute web site (http://www.cppi.ca/ULSD_Q_A_s.html )
contains the information listed above as well as additional important information pertaining to ULSD.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:26 PM   #15
mgdg
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DaimlerChrysler specific 2007 information
Current DaimlerChrysler vehicles requiring ULSD fuel include the 2007 Cab Chassis equipped with a
Cummins 6.7 L engine and Dodge Ram 2500 & 3500 trucks with the 6.7 L Cummins (trucks built Jan
2007 or later). Vehicles released later this year such as the 2007 Dodge Sprinter and the Jeep Grand
Cherokee (CRD) equipped with 3.0 L diesel engines will also require the use of ULSD fuel.
Dodge / Cummins fuel requirements:
For the 6.7 L Cummins engine off-road diesel fuel that does not meet the ULSD specifications is NOT
acceptable. The use of fuel other than ULSD will at a minimum result in damage to emission control
systems. Such damage caused by incorrect fuel usage is not covered by the manufacturer’s warranty.
Regardless of model year, the maximum concentration of high quality biodiesel fuel allowable is 5%.
(Refer to owners manual or applicable TSB for further information)
Fuel quality (including no water), filtration, and storage are critical to the reliability and operation of high
pressure common rail injected diesel engines. Please review TSB 14-007-06 REV.A for more information
regarding the fuel requirements on the Cummins equipped trucks.
In order to increase customer satisfaction and prevent premature component failure please make it a
priority to review the fuel and fuel handling requirements with customers during the purchase and or
service of their vehicles. Also, you are strongly encouraged to educate your customers regarding the
importance of maintaining their vehicles as per the information contained in the owner’s manuals and
maintenance guides. In addition, it would be helpful to explain that the quality of simple maintenance
items such as oil, fuel, air filters, and water separators can make a substantial difference to their
performance and genuine Mopar parts are the best choice for replacements. It can not be overstated how
important regular maintenance and quality parts are, especially when operating vehicles in severe
conditions or off-road.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:36 PM   #16
mgdg
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ATTENTION:
DEALER PRINCIPAL
SERVICE MANAGER
SALES MANAGER
SUBJECT: TECH-TIPS # 22 / 2007.5 D1/DH TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH 6.7L DIESEL ENGINES –
ENGINE OIL CHANGE INDICATOR SYSTEM
Subject trucks are equipped with a new engine oil change indicator system that will cause a “Change Oil”
message to flash in the instrument cluster odometer or on trucks equipped with an Electronic Vehicle
Information Center in the overhead console an “Oil Change Required” message will be displayed. The
engine oil indicator system is duty cycle based, meaning the engine oil change interval may fluctuate
because it’s dependant upon a driver’s driving style. Driving styles such as frequent stop and go type
driving can increase the frequency of the engine oil change. This is the result of more frequent
regeneration of the exhaust after-treatment system, which can decrease the life of the engine oil. Failure
to change the engine oil per the maintenance schedule can result in internal engine damage. Refer to the
Owner’s Manual for information regarding resetting the Oil Change Indicator message after performing
the required schedule maintenance.
NOTE: IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE MAINTENANCE TIME INTERVAL TO
ELAPSE WITHOUT AN OIL CHANGE REMINDER. IN SUCH A CASE, IT IS THE OWNER’S
RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT MAINTENANCE IS PERFORMED ACCORDING TO
THE RECOMMENDED INTERVAL. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD OIL CHANGE
INTERVALS EXCEED 12,000 KILOMETRES OR 6 MONTHS, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.
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Old 07-24-2007, 06:35 PM   #17
clutch
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I use power service from WallMart several times a year just to help keep the injectors clean. I also add about 8 oz of two stroke oil to each tank. I add the oil each time just to get a little bit of extra lube to the vp44 pump. My truck is a 98.5 Dodge and has no emissions equipment that could get plugged up. I use the two stroke oil because it is ashless. It is cheap at wallyworld.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:12 AM   #18
mgdg
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http://www.cppi.ca/ULSD_Q_A_s.html
According to this website an additive is already put into the diesel by the refinery. I think we are just wasting money by doing it ourselves. Of course some would like a little more protection but do we really need it?? Just my opinion.
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:17 AM   #19
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by kerry

Just for the record, when I started using stanadyne for ulsd my mileage went up 1 MPG. Kerry (and my engine is quieter)
I just started using the Stanadyne. I know it is one of two recommended by GM. I have a friend that works for a dealership in a nearby city, and he strongly recommended I use the Stanadyne. IIRC the reason it is the choice of GM is the way it removes water by creating droplets that will collect in the water separator. It is my understanding many of the treatments emulsify the water into the fuel and allow it pass through the system. I picked up one bottle (pint or so) and it will treat 130 gallons of fuel. I intend to see how it does. Just my thoughts.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:22 AM   #20
Eagle Man
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I'm not sure what I'm going to do regarding this subject (07 Classic D/A). GM says it's not necessary and the gov says a lubricant is added to the ULSD to replace the sulfur (a lubricant) removed from the LSD. Naturally, the local Stanadyne dealer says it's absolutely required, he even gave me a pint. Maybe next time out, I'll run a tank with and a tank without and compare the results. At least the Stanadyne is GM approved.
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