Suspension failure - Montana Owners Club

Katherine1962 · 04-18-2021, 02:57 PM

We just completed our very first camping trip in our new Montana 3120 legacy. Cincinnati ,ohio to Corpus Christi, Texas. Great time there at the KOA. On the way home 600 miles from home my brand new rig drops a leaf spring. Thank goodness for the wrecker company in Lonoke Arkansas. They built us a new leaf spring from our leaf spring and 2 others that allowed us to get home. Now we will see what Keystone will do about making us whole and putting our suspension back to new. Will post how their response and repair service goes.

hemiallen · 04-18-2021, 04:16 PM

Man, was that a scary experience? Hopefully nothing was damaged from the broken leaf.

No bueno, maybe a singular bad leaf, but hoping not a source issue for the fix or future assemblies, wink wink.

Did it happen due to a bad section or pothole in the road?

Safe travels home

Allen

Katherine1962 · 04-18-2021, 05:49 PM

Roads were horrible with potholes Texas and Arkansas. Felt something odd happen in the camper while towing. Looked in the mirror and saw the back end of the trailer about 4 ft over in the left lane. Scarey yes! Took my foot off the gas but did not apply brakes, was concerned of jackknife. Once down to about 25 mph I began using brakes and pulled off the freeway to emergency lane. One of the leafs went into the radiator of the semi behind me. He stopped too.we were both happy it went in his radiator as it did so at windshield level of a normal car had there been one . Hoping to get the repair date moved up. Wrecker driver said the bolts were loose. Had him check all bolts and he was able to get a couple turns on every nut on the other leaf springs too. Not a good thought. I advise checking yours when you get it delivered.

hemiallen · 04-18-2021, 06:04 PM

Sounds like a very scary event, glad you got her stopped, and glad the truck driver wasn't fuming!

I will, for sure, check the suspension bolts, we only have a 35 mile trip home when she arrives, but I will take wrenches to check tightness and do it again when home.

Wishing an expedited repair and safe journey back home.

Allen

Katherine1962 · 04-18-2021, 06:25 PM

The wrecker driver called his brother . He brought parts and they built us a nes leaf spring we ended up only 2 and a half hours thanks to them. Temporary leaf spring basically but they made it so we could get home. We got home the next day. Thank you for the well wishes. Best of luck on your camp once it is built.

rohrmann · 04-18-2021, 07:23 PM

Loose nuts on the U-bolts that secure the leaf springs to the axles has been a regular problem. Dexter assembles the axles to the springs and torques the nuts. Once the axle/spring assembly is attached to the frame and load is added, the springs are straightened some and that is when the nuts become loose. The Dexter manual calls for 45 to 70 ft lbs of torque on the nuts of the U-bolts, and this needs to be done with the full weight of the trailer on the suspension. Some years ago at the national rally, I remember a Dexter rep say the torque should be close to the higher torque. This should be a regular maintenance check, and will prevent axles becoming separated from the springs.

hemiallen · 04-18-2021, 09:29 PM

Thank you for the Torque specs, I will check it at the dealer.

Allen

PNW Fireguy · 04-19-2021, 08:23 AM

I experienced the same issue while traveling I70 in Colorado back in the summer of 2019. It was a total cluster. I was lucky enought that I had no damage to the rig other than the dimpled corrosplast underbelly and a tire. Too many points of failurer on the stock OEM equalizer and leaf spring suspensions for my liking. Add to that welded attachment brackets for the leaf springs seem to be another significant fatigue/failure point. These are the types of things that leave you on the side of the road until fixed or McGiver'd. Best of luck with your process to be made whole. You may also need to contact the suspension company as well as Keystone since the RV industry has a history of taking the position that they only sell the assembled parts and the individual components are warrantied by the suppliers.

VagabondLove · 04-21-2021, 02:44 PM

I hate to say it, but that happened to me 4 times since 2013...too frequently for me. Fortunately only one was a complete high-speed incident as soon as I hit Tulsa. Fortunately no ancillary damage.

I used to carry a complete set of extra leaf springs, U bolts, and tools so that I can replace the assembly anywhere. Once in a rest area, twice at campgrounds when my post-trip inspection revealed yet another broken spring.

Whenever I make significant changes in content or start a new trip, I weigh my rig on a CAT scale to make sure we are within specs. Often we were very close to Max Weight but not over.

First, I ended getting heavier springs e.g. 6 leaf springs. A PITA to find, but I was hoping to never need them. False hope.

What I finally did was made an appointment at MorRyde, and got the Independent Suspension system installed instead. I also bumped my new MorRyde axle selection up to 8K (up from factory-supplied 7K) to give me a little breathing room...which also allowed me to go for better Goodyear G114 tires. No issues ever since!

allenclme · 04-21-2021, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VagabondLove

I hate to say it, but that happened to me 4 times since 2013...too frequently for me. Fortunately only one was a complete high-speed incident as soon as I hit Tulsa. Fortunately no ancillary damage.

I used to carry a complete set of extra leaf springs, U bolts, and tools so that I can replace the assembly anywhere. Once in a rest area, twice at campgrounds when my post-trip inspection revealed yet another broken spring.

Whenever I make significant changes in content or start a new trip, I weigh my rig on a CAT scale to make sure we are within specs. Often we were very close to Max Weight but not over.

First, I ended getting heavier springs e.g. 6 leaf springs. A PITA to find, but I was hoping to never need them. False hope.

What I finally did was made an appointment at MorRyde, and got the Independent Suspension system installed instead. I also bumped my new MorRyde axle selection up to 8K (up from factory-supplied 7K) to give me a little breathing room...which also allowed me to go for better Goodyear G114 tires. No issues ever since!

We're on the waiting list to have the IS installed. They are booked out now past March 2022. I was wondering about your choice to go with the 8k. When I was talking with Brian at MorRyde, he said they don't recommend the 8k axles if not needed cause it causes a rougher ride. My 3820 FK came with 7k's. In my mind, as crappy as the roads can be, I'd want something a little beefier.

VagabondLove · 04-22-2021, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenclme

We're on the waiting list to have the IS installed. They are booked out now past March 2022. I was wondering about your choice to go with the 8k. When I was talking with Brian at MorRyde, he said they don't recommend the 8k axles if not needed cause it causes a rougher ride. My 3820 FK came with 7k's. In my mind, as crappy as the roads can be, I'd want something a little beefier.

Brian attempted to guide me away from that too. But, as an engineer, I know that having a little headroom is better than exceeding the maximums. Our 3625RE is now weighing in at 14800 for the rear axles only, which is 800 lbs more than a pair of 7K axles are rated. The well-built IS is heavier than the springs it replaces, and IMHO Brian's difference in ride stiffness caused by the beefier axles would be countered with the smoothness of the IS vs the springs. Adding in the better tire assemblies, to me it was a no brainer decision.

The other no brainer was to go with the disc hydraulic brakes. My electric brakes never worked well.

Remember as full timers this is our only home, and we travel around the country moving every week. This is not a 'move twice per year' Montana. Having gone through so many OEM suspension issues, I was ready to do what was needed to make that all better. So far with 6200 miles on the IS since installation, all is going well.

allenclme · 04-22-2021, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VagabondLove

Brian attempted to guide me away from that too. But, as an engineer, I know that having a little headroom is better than exceeding the maximums. Our 3625RE is now weighing in at 14800 for the rear axles only, which is 800 lbs more than a pair of 7K axles are rated. The well-built IS is heavier than the springs it replaces, and IMHO Brian's difference in ride stiffness caused by the beefier axles would be countered with the smoothness of the IS vs the springs. Adding in the better tire assemblies, to me it was a no brainer decision.

The other no brainer was to go with the disc hydraulic brakes. My electric brakes never worked well.

Remember as full timers this is our only home, and we travel around the country moving every week. This is not a 'move twice per year' Montana. Having gone through so many OEM suspension issues, I was ready to do what was needed to make that all better. So far with 6200 miles on the IS since installation, all is going well.

What is the difference in tires? Would I be replacing the wheel/tire assemblies that are on there now?

Montana Man · 04-22-2021, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VagabondLove

Brian attempted to guide me away from that too. But, as an engineer, I know that having a little headroom is better than exceeding the maximums. Our 3625RE is now weighing in at 14800 for the rear axles only, which is 800 lbs more than a pair of 7K axles are rated. The well-built IS is heavier than the springs it replaces, and IMHO Brian's difference in ride stiffness caused by the beefier axles would be countered with the smoothness of the IS vs the springs. Adding in the better tire assemblies, to me it was a no brainer decision.

The other no brainer was to go with the disc hydraulic brakes. My electric brakes never worked well.

Remember as full timers this is our only home, and we travel around the country moving every week. This is not a 'move twice per year' Montana. Having gone through so many OEM suspension issues, I was ready to do what was needed to make that all better. So far with 6200 miles on the IS since installation, all is going well.

With 14800 lbs. on the rear axles the trailer is over gvwr about 2000 lbs. Think that had anything to do with the previous suspension problems?

Dave W · 04-23-2021, 06:44 AM

Maybe adding retorquing the u-bolts should be included on a PDI list. Most trailers have been towed several hundred miles and for sure will need some attention. While we didn't have a failure, the u-bolt nuts were barely just over finger tight. Instead of just retighteninng to spec, replaced the 1/2" u-bots with 9/16" pieces and went up in value to 90 lb. ft. Ours will be checked again in the next day or so as it's part of my spring maintenance 'ritual'. I set them at 75# lb ft as 90# tends to bend the spring plates. I also use Gr8 flat washers from a local spring shop under the nuts

Katherine1962 · 04-23-2021, 08:02 PM

Can anyone think of any reason to not apply some loctite to the threads?

rohrmann · 04-23-2021, 08:28 PM

They won’t loosen by the nuts turning. You might have a little stretch between checking and you still want the nuts to be able to be tightened if needed.

hemiallen · 04-23-2021, 08:28 PM

I suspect it may be stretching of the bolts / threads as much as loosening of the nuts. If you have enough thread length I would add a nut to act as a locking device vs locktite. A guess, but that is my thought. If it were from vibration, a lot of suspensions would have failed after the newness wears thin

Re-torquing lug nuts, especially aluminum alloy rims ( wheels they call them now, lol) is as much from wearing in the cone of the nuts, I believe, after a heat cycle when the assembly is new.

Katherine1962 · 04-24-2021, 10:08 AM

I can see a bolt stretching if enough torque is put on it. It being our first camping trip is the big issue I see. Better quality u bolts may be one idea for bolts not stretching. For now waiting to get it in the service center may 11. In the end for the short term keystones response to this issue will dictate what actions I may need to take.

RipNC · 04-24-2021, 02:14 PM

Thanks everyone for this thread! Monday we finally start traveling "fulltime" and today I did tires, lugs and, because of this thread, axle u-bolts. With torque set at 65# I had some turn on all but 2 nuts. Not knowing any particular order for these - I did inside u-bolts first and chose the nut with least thread showing first. It was eye opening and I will check them again after stopping Monday (130 miles). Lugnuts were actually pretty good.

hemiallen · 04-24-2021, 02:45 PM

It might be beneficial to mark the nuts / bolts with maybe nail polish / chalk lines to see rotation causing the loosening, if that is the issue. Also remember it can take a few torque cycles to see no extra rotation, especially if it is a compressible material or stretching!

But, don't keep retorquing the same fastener many times, IMHO. Not sure how many times can be ok. Like Torque converter bolts, some applications require one-use and toss the bolts in critical, high torque applications.

Good luck

Allen

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