Dealer to avoid - holiday world - mesquite - Montana Owners Club

MOODY · 06-21-2021, 01:22 PM

Let's start by saying that I was in the automotive service industry for over 20 years. As such I know there are times that repair concerns can't be duplicated so no repairs will be attempted. I'm ok with that because a dealership can't be expected to throw parts at the repair till it works.

In Feb 2020 I experienced a furnace failure where the furnace fan works as designed but the furnace will light for approx. 10 seconds but go out after 5-10 seconds. This repeats itself for 5-10 minutes till eventually the fan shuts off.

I returned to the selling dealer HOLIDAY WORLD - MESQUITE for repairs. The dealership replaced the propane regulator and I picked up the RV.

In May 2021 I traveled to the Badlands of South Dakota and arrived to 8" of new snow with daytime temps reaching only 35 degrees and night time temps of 10-15 degrees. 1st time I had attempted to use the furnace (staying home partially because of Covid)- FURNACE NOT WORKING - SAME CONCERN as described to my Service Advisor JD previously.

I removed the Sail Switch - clean, reinstalled and tested voltage at 12 volts from the Circuit Board to and from the Sail Switch. Tested the voltage from the Circuit Board to the HI-LIMIT SWITCH at 3 volts. Suspected Circuit Board failure - called an On-Line Repair facility who confirmed voltage to low and should also test at 12 volts. I ceased diagnosis at this time.

On May 13th upon my return from South Dakota/Nebraska I dropped the RV off at HOLIDAY WORLD - MESQUITE and advised the Service Advisor JD of my concerns and what tests I had performed and the outcome.

Approx. two weeks later JD called and advised that the furnace was working as designed but temps were now in the 70's His advice was to take the RV to Canada (somewhere where is was extremely cold or wait till next winter).
Next time I experienced failure take it to the closest dealer or call Montana RV.

I called MONTANA RV who said if the dealership thought the circuit board was/is failing then they should replace it!

I searched the web and forums and discovered my concern was not new to the industry and several members of the MONTANA OWNERS CLUB FORUM directed me to to find Mr. Vititow. Mr. Vititow of UNITED RV in Dallas had experienced the exact same failure previously and had posted his results. His eventual diagnosis was to remove the Circuit Board place it in a freezer for some time, reinstall, verify the concern, apply a heat gun to warm up the circuits to expand the solder joints at which point it would start working again and then to replace the Circuit Board as the casual part.

On JUNE 11th, I contacted Mr. Vititow of UNITED RV for permission for HOLIDAY WORLD - MESQUITE to contact him in regards to his diagnosis and eventual repair. Mr Vititow stated he was more than willing to discuss this repair with HOLIDAY WORLD - MESQUITE. Mr. Vititow provided his phone contact info to give to my repair facility.

Glad that I may now have a possible repair for my concern I called my Service Advisor JD of HOLIDAY WORLD - MEQUITE. JD advised me that it would be another week before the shop could get my RV back into the shop for another diagnostic test. His main concern was WHO was going to pay for the test if this test failed. I informed JD that I would be more than willing to pay for this test to be performed as returning to usage of the RV knowing another failure was imminent without a proper repair was unsatisfactory. Rarely have I seen such resistance to repair a vehicle as I experienced. His response was "we don't have a freezer" which dissipated when I asked if the dealership didn't have a refrigerator for employees. My phone call was at 11:30 am and JD said it might be late in the day before he could find the opportunity to call Mr. Vitotow.

I felt so unconfident in JD's responses that I immediately called the General Manager Terry Ellis of HOLIDAY WORLD - MESQUITE (the Service Manger was unavailable). I expressed my lack of confidence that JD would follow through but Terry Ellis reassured that he would see to it that someone would follow up with Mr. Vititow.

FAST FORWARD - 10 DAYS - JUNE 21ST
I contacted Mr. Vititow of UNITED RV who informed me that NO ONE has contacted him about the above described concerns/repairs!

I called my Service Advisor JD at HOLIDAY WORLD who told me the dealership has not found time to get the rv back into the service department for additional diagnosis and it would be some time before they are able to.

I then called the General Manager Terry Ellis who stated he "was in the dark" as to the status of the rv. I told him that neither the Service Manager or the Service Advisor had called Mr. Vititow of UNITED RV. As General Manager of the dealership he reports that he does not supervise the Service Department and they "do their own thing" So much for expecting management follow-up!

NO ONE AT THE DEALERSHIP MANAGES THE MANAGERS! QUESTION - WHO IN THE HELL IS IN CONTROL! I've never seen where ALL managers don't answer to the store's General Manager. That's the purpose - and General Manager's answer to an owner or CEO. The General Manager is the eyes/ears for the owner/CEO

In my time in the automotive service industry if ANYONE (Service Advisor or Manager) had such disrespect and disregard to any customer the 1st offense would have been a long conversation with the owner (not a manager) and no opportunity for a 3rd - TIME FOR A NEW JOB OR CAREER CHANGE! But that's why we were ALWAYS a TOP TEN DEALERSHIP! You get to the top by taking care of your customers!

HOLIDAY WORLD - MESQUITE was more than happy to take my $1k for my annual maintenance repair but disregard the difficult warranty work.

IF THEY WON'T ATTEMPT TO REPAIR THEM - I WOULDN'T ADVISE PURCHASING!

Sincere Thanks to Mr. Vititow of UNITED RV for agreeing to assist me with this repair. Mr. Vititow's comments were he chased this concern for 4 months - talk about persistance - HATS OFF TO UNITED RV!

Ram Montana High Country · 06-21-2021, 01:32 PM

HW in most locations is best to avoid. Traded the unit I bought there and got one from RV Station Nacodoches

MOODY · 06-21-2021, 01:38 PM

!st RV I've owned. Didn't realize the Service Dept is so primitive. Does remind me of the auto industry from the 60's - WOW was I in for a shock.
NEED A REPUTABLE DEALER IN THE DALLAS/NORTH TEXAS/SOUTHEAST OKLAHOMA AREA FOR MONTANA!
I don't need a 3 hour drive to Dallas to be treated like this! I can take a hammer and hit my big toe for the same outcome!

BB_TX · 06-21-2021, 02:06 PM

I am surprised Holiday World Mesquite has such good google reviews as I have read postings before of problems encountered there.

MOODY · 06-21-2021, 02:19 PM

Yes - I checked reviews before I purchased. Must be sending in their own reviews! I guess I should have posted the question on the forum 1st.
I have heard that other dealers are reluctant to work on units purchased elsewhere - any truth to that?
In the auto industry we always took in orphaned owners. The service dept. was responsible for meeting/exceeding their own financial goals each month but who knows what is driving the RV repair industry.

DutchmenSport · 06-21-2021, 03:29 PM

Moody, one thing you need to some how fix in your mind, is the fact that the automobile industry and the RV industry are worlds and worlds apart and different. The only thing they have in common is, they have a show room, a finance office, salesmen that will try to sell you anything, and some kind of repair facility. After that, there are no more similarities. They are different as day and night.

Whatever expectations you brought with you from the automobile industry, toss it out. Unfortunately, you are now in totally new and unchartered territory for you. It is, just the way it is. That doesn't mean you have to like it or accept it, but differences are a vast as a dutch oven and a toilet. Both are round, that's about the only thing they have in common.

MOODY · 06-21-2021, 03:57 PM

Boy if any one dealership adapts changes as the automotive industry did the $$$ starts pouring in. Customers are willing to pay more $$$ (per hour rate) for FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME and an ATTITUDE of WANTING to assist customers.

I don't know if this an industry concern or reflects a limited point of view from the dealership I had contact with. Repairs that an individual would be willing to let a dealer perform vrs. repairing yourself because of the lack of concern by a dealer does not seem to weighed or taken into account. It seems the dealers are chasing away potential customer pay repairs in the future by shoddy attitudes and repairs that are performed when the vehicle is still under warranty.
Of course in the automotive industry service not sales keeps the lights turned on and all wages paid. It is as if in the RV industry the reverse is true and the service department is kept only as a requirement by the manufacturer to sell new rv's. Makes you wonder how many dealers would delete the service department if they could and only have a sales department!

DutchmenSport · 06-21-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOODY

...Repairs that an individual would be willing to let a dealer perform vrs. repairing yourself because of the lack of concern by a dealer does not seem to weighed or taken into account. It seems the dealers are chasing away potential customer ...

I think THIS is where you hit the nail right on the head. I think all of us, at one time or another in our RV infancy had faith and believed in our RV dealerships for long standing support and customer care. Having been an RV owner since about 1995 and my parents had one in the early 1960's, the concept of customer service in the RV industry seems to an unthinkable concept!

This is the reason why, after the disillusionment wears off, most of us RV owners do any repairs ourselves that we can possible do. If we can hold a hammer, we attempt to do our own repairs, because we know our local RV dealerships are going to be very disappointing. They will either do shoddy work or we'll have to wait for months to get a service call, and then they'll keep the RV for weeks, sometimes months, while they are engaged in fixing the problem.

Some warranty issues are too big, too expensive, and just too frustrating to fix ourselves. For those occasions, the first time RV owner will take their camper back for the warranty work. And ... be disappointed. Some will try to deal with the manufacturer directly. Sometimes that is successful, sometimes a total failure.

When it comes to repeat business, those of us who are seasoned now, experienced total disappointment in our local dealership, look for a new dealer. The old ones continue in business because they still attract new comers to this market.

You have now been baptized into the world of RV ownership and dunked in some pretty murky waters. Welcome to the world of reality!

MOODY · 06-21-2021, 05:40 PM

This is where we can blame the manufactures though. In the automotive industry the dealerships are held to be accountable by the manufacture for maintaining a level of customer satisfaction. Service departments with low or substandard customer satisfaction surveys are penalized. Factories will require much tougher standard towards approvals for warranty repair, sales department number of vehicle allocation on new RV's could easily be weighed towards satisfied customer's.

The auto manufacture's download the dealers daily repair orders and surveys EVERY customer, to include every oil change, tire replacement, etc. Every customer will receive a survey if not surveyed in the past 12 months. If sales drives the RV industry then let the results of those surveys drive the allocation of new rv's that a dealer will receive. Think a dealership owner will not start watching the number of satisfied owners he maintains. Owners and management will become very concerned when new inventory starts shrinking while the competitive dealer receives bonus units for high customer satisfaction! There is not enough inventory to go around now to meet the demand supply so every new rv counts as should every satisfied customer.

Montana Man · 06-21-2021, 06:49 PM

Repair shops are notorious for poor quality service. I'm sure your experience is real. It would be good to inform them of this thread and let them know they have an opportunity to respond. If substandard shops knew about this type of publicity they would be less likely to not care.

Ram Montana High Country · 06-21-2021, 07:38 PM

Well for what is is worth - some RV Dealerships are trying to move towards the "Auto" style. I have a acquaintance that has interviewed with a couple RV Dealerships ... change is slow especially when everyone of them is slammed with work.

Now for the SURVEY discussion - auto dealers are slammed if a survey is not ALL 10's ... this is not right. They are dealing with the toughest customers, US. Some folks want their wrong covered by dealers. And take it out in a survey.

I personally hate doing a survey as their is no room constructive feedback. Or just don't have room for input. I continually a RAM dealer that a diesel didn't need oil changed every 3k miles ... bought the next from another dealer.

MOODY · 06-21-2021, 08:33 PM

I can speak from 20 years experience - all automotive Service Advisors and Managers pay is tied to survey scores. YES, you have to ask every customer to return surveys and the importance of those surveys. YES, there are the individuals who want non-warranty repairs covered by surveys and will tie the results to a survey. We depended upon our constant RETURNING customers for the 10's. Visiting customers were the worst and were the 1st to condemn the repair facility for even bad weather. It is a violation to tell the owner HOW to complete the survey but not to ask for the survey. Most dealership loyal owners WILL NOT return the survey till they realize the importance to their Service Advisor. Our dealership was always in the TOP TEN because WE ASKED and the majority were RETURNING customers who had a relationship with their advisor. Surveys monitored by manufacturers were the best thing that happened to dealerships and for the customers. Not to say that the profit margin was also greatly increased as a result also due to FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME which was a huge part of the survey. More of the techs time was spent on new repairs/maintenance rather than attempting to repair a misdiagnosed concern for the 2nd or 3rd time. FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME means more customers in/out of the shop in a month and greatly decreases the customers time in the shop.
Techs that constantly had low FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME scores were weeded out to make room for someone who had more desire to train/improve to become a better tech representing the dealership.
I could go on endlessly about processes for a facility to attempt to improve their repair procedures and it is obvious that the dealership/owners I was dealing with have not even started or process the desire to improve on a monthly basis. Until you want to improve you will never move forward and it's easier to fall back a step than to climb out of the rut you are in!
If a dealership has low scores - it is deserved or the Service Advisors aren't asking. I felt surveys MADE EVERYONE get better and it drove out the BAD APPLES!

dieselguy · 06-21-2021, 09:19 PM

Like has been respectfully said and will respectively be said ... take your automotive expectations for the RV industry and file them away somewhere. Find a good mobile tech or if you have the skills get a bigger tool box so you have more tools at your disposal to fix what ails your equipment. Although a few here on the MOC have had excellent service from a limited number of dealers ... the average coast to coast RV standard of service is disappointing to put it mildly. Let your frustration go or it will eventually ruin your RV experience.

**Rondo** · 06-22-2021, 12:03 AM

Kevin-- Call Keystone Customer Service and explain the situation and ask if a file has been started on your unit from Holiday. Be sure to have your VIN # when you call them. Ask if it is possible for them to recommend another Montana dealer close to you or a Mobile Tech Service they might use or recommend to work on your unit. Remember when talking to the Service Rep at Keystone that a little sugar will get you further than some vinegar. If you get mad and etc it just turns the Service Rep off and you won't get anywhere. Good Luck and keep us up on what happens in your situation.

MOODY · 06-22-2021, 04:24 AM

QUESTION - Can mobile techs perform warranty work for Montana?

SanAji · 06-26-2021, 08:14 AM

I had the same bad experience with HW/Alvarado. It appeared that they had a good staff that was being managed by incompetent management, and the management structure made no sense.

I called management at the corporate office to resolve an issue, and they assured me that the person over all dealership service departments would contact me. In the mean time, I received a call from an independent firm that was surveying my service experience. Well, in a very polite way I shared a years worth of my horrible experience with them. Within a few days I received a call from corporate and my final issue was resolved.

timandsusan · 06-27-2021, 08:33 AM

X2 for GOOD MOBILE TECH. I have been lucky to find good mobile tech in Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado. Yes, the up front charge of about $150 sounds hard to take but these guys know their stuff and have fixed everything I needed on my 2006 Monty. The local mobile tech I use also does mobile tech jobs for the local dealerships who have buyers in nearby RV parks who have issues. Basically all RV's use many common parts--there are only a few suppliers of landing legs, refrigs, ac, toilets etc and all the manufacturers use them.--So a GOOD MOBILE TECH can work on a Monty.

**scottz** · 06-27-2021, 11:58 AM

Welcome to the forum and RV ownership. Wait until a dealer tells you they will not work on your unit because you did not buy it from them! As stated, RV and auto service departments are worlds apart. Best of luck getting your furnace back up.

Mikendebbie · 06-27-2021, 12:55 PM

My experience with HW Alvarado is more of a non-story. Knock-on-wood and cross my fingers - nothing serious has gone wrong with my RV, and I fixed the small stuff myself. No warranty work was needed - yet - and I have a few more months left on my 3 year structural warranty.

We bought the unit at the Fort Worth RV Show early January 2018. We did not close and trade in our 2017 Laredo travel trailer until late January 27 or 28. We got there early on a Saturday morning. We do all the paperwork and sign everything then head out on the parking lot to get our PDI Inspection/demonstration. We start in the basement storage and the convenience center. I don't remember what the guy was demonstrating, but there was a blue flash and pop in the basement over at the power center. He said "oh that can't be good". He called a tech to come out and start looking at the power center, and he said let's go inside. Once inside DW said "WAIT A MINUTE! This is not the interior and fabric color for the unit we selected!!!! I don't want THIS unit!!" And she was correct. We stopped the PDI and they went out on the lot and found the correct unit with the right colors and fabrics, and they started washing and cleaning it up. They offered to put us up in a nearby campground overnight (Yogi Bears Jellystone) and we came back on Sunday morning to start signing the papers all over again. They threw in a Traeger Ranger portable grille with the deal. We left tired but happy.

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