Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-05-2022, 06:53 AM   #1
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Sidewall Cracks - NOT Frame Flex

I have had a crack in the sidewall of our 3791RD at the bottom front corner of the rear door side slide for some time now. Our dealer has attempted repair three times. Each time, they have cut a progressively larger square out of the sidewall and patched it.
I just picked up the rig last Thursday. I have gone about 120 miles and stopped for the night, and sure enough, it is starting to crack again!
Each repair has gotten progressively worse. And now I have a crack forming on the bottom front corner of the opposite slide on the ODS side. So far, that one is only about an inch long.
We are on a trip for the next several months and won't be home until early January.
Let me say that Keystone has been great about covering the repairs under warranty, but I have absolutely no faith that the dealer is capable of making the repair correctly based on previous attempts and I'm reluctant to allow them to keep cutting larger and larger holes into the side of our rig.
Has anyone had a similar problem and had it repaired?
I'm aware of the "frame flex" issues with the front bedroom slide, but I haven't seen anything regarding this being a problem at the rear living room slides.
I have looked inside the wall as best I can with an endoscope and I can't find any broken frame or cracked welds in the framing at the slide. The stationary wall does not move in or out as the slide moves in/out either. The cracks almost seem like stress cracks. Dealer confirmed that there isn't any broken welds or framing in the wall near the cracks.
In talking with Keystone prior to this most recent repair attempt, they wanted me to return it to the dealer for a third repair since they have already paid the dealer to fix it and it is the dealer's responsibility to fix it. Having said that, I really don't think the dealer is capable of fixing it properly. They have had it for nearly 6 months at different times to fix it and have been completely unsuccessful. Each "repair" gets progressively larger and worse. We really love our Montana and don't want to give it up, but I'm starting to wonder if we may have a lemon, especially since the ODS side is starting to crack in the same place now.
Can anyone shed some light on the problem and/or a fix?
 
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2022, 07:24 AM   #2
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Just for a frame of reference, here a a couple of pics of the cracks.

First pic is before the last repair. The second is yesterday, after the last repair.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20220424_200125.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	13004   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220904_145726.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	57.6 KB
ID:	13005  
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 11:26 AM   #3
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Can't believe no responses. I can find numerous sidewall crack problems with Keystone, Grand Design, Jayco, "Insert company name here", etc., etc.
These are apparently quite common. Has anyone EVER successfully repaired this type of crack?
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 11:50 AM   #4
DadsHemi
Montana Master
 
DadsHemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Florence
Posts: 945
M.O.C. #20472
Is that at your bedroom slide
__________________

2018 Ram 3500 MegaCab 4x4 Aisin, 4:10 Gears
Titan 50 Gal Tank, Air Lift Wireless Bags
2017 3160 RL
DadsHemi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 12:05 PM   #5
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,152
M.O.C. #30417
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMcNeal View Post
Can't believe no responses. I can find numerous sidewall crack problems with Keystone, Grand Design, Jayco, "Insert company name here", etc., etc.
These are apparently quite common. Has anyone EVER successfully repaired this type of crack?
I hate to be the barer of bad news but any cracking in a corner joint like that is caused by flexing. I can't imagine fixing the crack without fixing the reason for the crack. I mean I could be wrong but....physics....
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 12:11 PM   #6
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DadsHemi View Post
Is that at your bedroom slide
No. Its actually at the rear living room slide. Now both sides are cracking.
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 12:13 PM   #7
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foldbak View Post
I hate to be the barer of bad news but any cracking in a corner joint like that is caused by flexing. I can't imagine fixing the crack without fixing the reason for the crack. I mean I could be wrong but....physics....
I think you are absolutely correct. Up to now, our dealer has attempted to patch 3 times. First patch didn't last 15 miles to get back to my home. The last was cracked again in less than 120 miles.
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 12:14 PM   #8
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,152
M.O.C. #30417
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMcNeal View Post
No. Its actually at the rear living room slide. Now both sides are cracking.
Those are stress cracks. Make a claim.
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 12:34 PM   #9
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
Those are stress cracks caused by broken welds in the aluminum frame. It is time to peel the wall back and check welds. While not as common as the cracks in the front bedroom slides, the rear den models are not immune.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB

Carl n Susan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 01:44 PM   #10
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
A claim was filed almost 2 years ago with Keystone. So far our dealer has attempted repair 3 times, each time cutting larger and larger holes in the side of our coach.
I'm really wondering if anyone has been able to this type of problem repaired and not continue to have problems.
Our coach has spent more time in the shop the last 18 months than on the road.
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 01:50 PM   #11
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
A nuymber of 312n owners have this same problem. I had it too recently. The only solution is to remove the filon/fiberglass siding and find/repair the broken aluminum welds. I suspect your dealer if not comfortable in RV body work and you need to have them sub it out to someone who is.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB

Carl n Susan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 02:51 PM   #12
Rondo
Site Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Omaha
Posts: 6,749
M.O.C. #7560
While having some repairs done at the National Fall Rally we were sent to Crossroads RV which is owned by Keystone. While there, we got a tour of the repair facility and they had a unit totally stripped down, slides out and down to the frame on one side. We asked what the problem was and they told us it was weld failure and the side was cracking at the corners. They rewelded the whole side and added extra supports in the wall. Didn't get to see the final project but I'm assuming they had to replace the fiberglass side with new.
Rondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 03:08 PM   #13
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondo View Post
...Didn't get to see the final project but I'm assuming they had to replace the fiberglass side with new....
No, depending on how much needs to be removed and how careful the tech is, they usually can reattach the panel. Mine had an 8' painted section removed and replaced. If they screwed it up they would have had to install a new piece and then paint it. That would not be cheap!.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB

Carl n Susan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 04:48 PM   #14
Daryles
Montana Master
 
Daryles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
Check the LCI TSB regarding Schwintek slide repairs to see if this could be the underlying cause.

LCI Schwintek repair TSB ccd-0006468.

I did not see a copy of it in the files section but if you download the
Lippert NOW app I'm sure it will be in there somewhere.
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
Daryles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 05:46 PM   #15
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryles View Post
Check the LCI TSB regarding Schwintek slide repairs to see if this could be the underlying cause.

LCI Schwintek repair TSB ccd-0006468.

I did not see a copy of it in the files section but if you download the
Lippert NOW app I'm sure it will be in there somewhere.
I have attached the TSB below.
LCI - Schwintek Inverted Gear Rack In-Wall Slide-Out System Repair TSB.pdf

And it has been saved in the Files Section for future reference.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB

Carl n Susan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 05:49 PM   #16
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,152
M.O.C. #30417
Here you go.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ccd-0006468.pdf (5.52 MB, 48 views)
File Type: pdf Schwitek Repiar Bulletin ccd-0001768.pdf (3.36 MB, 66 views)
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 05:13 AM   #17
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Thanks for the TSB documents. I do not think it is the problem, but I will confirm measurements just to be sure.
Incidentally, I had to call Lippert a few days ago to get the size and grip length of the two rivets that hold the gib in place on the outside of the H column. Someone at the dealer drilled them out when removing the H column frame to make the last repair and now the gib is floating inside the frame. They said it is an aluminum blind rivet 1/8 inch x .603 (roughly 5/8") grip length. I had to order some on Amazon as I only had 1/8 x 1/2 inch. Lippert's tech said I could re-attach the gib without removing the H column as long as I can line up the holes in the gib with the holes in the frame, which I can.
Apparently, the repair tech that drilled them out did not know what purpose these rivets serve.
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 08:21 AM   #18
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,152
M.O.C. #30417
That's good that you found and can make that repair. That wont stop the side wall cracking if the welds are cracked. You should find a competent dealer to take it to. Maybe someone here can refer one? Sorry you're having to go through this on the road. Good news is it can be fixed.
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 09:09 AM   #19
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
I was actually trying to find a competent dealer for the most recent repair, but Keystone insisted they have already paid my dealer for the repair and I should return there. I have absolutely ZERO confidence in their ability to make this repair at this point, so I'm not sure where to go from here.
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 10:52 AM   #20
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,152
M.O.C. #30417
I would tell them exactly that.
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sidewall crack

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.