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Old 01-22-2013, 05:28 AM   #1
01RAMer
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Froze 30# LP Tank

Had a power outage and used the camper generator for power. Part way through the night the generator stopped. The tank had a layer of frost on the outside, but it wasn't empty. Apparently it froze to the point no gas could get through. After I let it thaw out, it worked fine again. What would cause this and how do I fix the issue?
 
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:25 AM   #2
BusyCarol
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We to had this happen to one tank and our system shifted over to the other tank. According to my husband it is because they may not have mixed any methyl alcohol into the propane to keep it from freezing. Let me see if I can remember what he told me...As the gas leaves the tank it is drawing energy into the tank. So if the area around the tank is cold the tank will become cold and eventually freeze. Have some new propane added and it will most likely have the methyl alcohol in it and should prevent it from freezing. We have not had the issue again since we added some new propane to that tank and we have used our in -15 degree weather.

I have to admit I was very angry when this happens to us because what if we were relying on that tank to keep us warm and didn't have another one?! I think all propane should be required to have the methyl alcohol in it. Mama wants her heat! :-)
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #3
Parts Ed
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I'll toss out a possible stupid question and see what comes from it..... Could a person wrap some of the water line heat tape around the cylinders and plug them in to keep the tanks from icing up???
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:06 AM   #4
BusyCarol
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Keith says that people have done that and on the web there are also heating pads you can put on/around them. Not a stupid question at all... Good idea!

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:04 PM   #5
Ozz
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A heavy draw on the propane tank like a generator will freeze them, but they recommend just changing tanks.
I have said it before, I would not put any type of heater around a propane tank. Just too dangerous. Think electrical short..propane...boom...
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #6
Irlpguy
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We all want the convenience of automatic switch over tank regulators and that is what is installed on pretty much every RV these days. If you were drawing propane from both 30# tanks at the same time through one regulator this icing would be far less likely to occur. In cold weather the liquid in a single small tank just cannot turn to gas without icing up the tanks when there is heavy demand. The icing occurs where the liquid expands to gas and that is where it leaves the bottle, thus icing up the regulator.

Many years ago we supplied propane space heaters and 100# bottles to the construction industry, even the 100# bottle would ice up when it reached about 1/2 empty. Feeding the same heater with 2 - 100# bottles solved the problem. I am talking -30 to -40 degrees much colder than one normally encounters when living in their RV.

There are propane tank heat blankets made and sold specifically for this purpose, one would assume they meet federal electrical requirements or they would not be on the market.

I would assume you were also running your propane furnace and perhaps the fridge on propane during this time, that is a large demand on a 30# bottle.

If I was having to live in my Monty in those conditions for any period of time, I would change out the regulator and draw from both my 40# bottles. Or better yet do as BigSkyJimmy and others do and have a large capacity propane tank installed.

If this is something you encounter rarely, then swap bottles, which will give the one time to warm up.

I am certainly no expert on anything, I have many of life's experiences over my 71 years that may or may not be of help, I hope my experience with freezing propane bottles helps out.

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Old 01-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #7
BusyCarol
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Definitely helped me out Ed. I didn't know that you could do the other type of regulator where both bottles can feed the need at the same time. Good info... Thanks for sharing your expertise.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #8
DonandBonnie
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X2 for what Ozz said. I had the same problem a couple months ago. I ran the generator and the furnace at the same time and caused too fast a draw and froze up the tank. A propane guy explained how it happened. Since then if I have to use the furnace while boondocking, I alternate between the furnace and the generator. It's a pain but if I get up about 2:30 or so and run the generator for about a half hour. I can run the furnace without totally draining the battery with one charging cycle in between.

Hey Ozz. Could I add one or two additional batteries and have enough power to run the furnace all night without the generator?
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:26 AM   #9
8.1al
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I'm not Ozz, but yes you can add a second battery so you can run the furnace all night
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:30 AM   #10
Ozz
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Sometimes I would like to pretend I am not Ozz, but this time I am..
The commercially made Propane tank heating blankets might be fine for this, but it really shouldn't be needed unless you are in a really cold place for a long period of time, then you would be getting a large tank, which would solve the problem.
My reason for not liking a heat blanket are many; possible mis-use,(covering up the top of the tank; they don't want you to do that) damage to the heat blanket during normal banging around replacing tanks, improper connection of the power supply; too small extension cord, damage to extension cord... I could go on and on, but I see a few of you nodding off.. I have made my living fixing electrical shorts, burned out elements, bad connections, improper factory assemblies (Think Dimplex fireplaces) I guess I am just a little paranoid, but just would not chance an electric blanket on my Propane fuel supply. I am sure thousands of folks do fine with it.

Yes, it is strange that the one night usage of the furnace and a few other loads can deplete the single battery we all start out with. You would think that the Engineers at design hdqtrs would work that out. At least tell buyers that a second battery may be needed if a person spends a cold night off-grid. I bet most folks find out the hard way.
Don, I think a second one should do it. If you spend a bunch of time off-grid, maybe think of moving up to 4 G.C. even 6 batteries, now would be the time to do it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:54 AM   #11
DQDick
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Ok, here's what everyone is looking for: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hv...FSmCQgodujQA9A You can even buy a number of sizes on Amazon, but not the 30# I think. If you really need them than there they are. When you see the price, another option may be more attractive.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:08 AM   #12
Ozz
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Hey Dick, Good info.
Try this for long URL's: http://tinyurl.com/

Here is your URL Tinicized..: http://tinyurl.com/b93jbrr
Also, you can go to the Reply to topic post and choose size 1 for the link.
Just trying to help a buddy, no criticism intended, I didn't know about it until it was shown to me.
Sometimes it screws up...something.. when people try and read a long link. I think to makes the screen page too long or something.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:01 AM   #13
01RAMer
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Thanks to all for the info and comments! You guys are great!
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:43 PM   #14
TYR
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This post interested me and may explain the problem we've been having here in NJ where we have been below freezing all week and in single digits overnight with pretty hefty wind chill factors to boot. Could not figure out why the furnace would not ignite when the propane bottle it's pulling from was at least 1/2 full.

So they can freeze up. Interesting. We have been thinking it might be just too cold for the regulator to make the auto-switch between tanks, or perhaps the regulator had just gone bad. We've tested that theory but it doesn't seem to fit.

Freezing of the tanks may indeed be the answer.

The valves to our grey tanks have frozen, too. Ironically, this time around we have water still - that hasn't frozen up coming into the rig, we just have no way to dump it out now! Hahaha!

Cheers for posting the topic! I'll be so glad to be in the 40s and 50s for highs next week!
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:02 PM   #15
Ken Ralston
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This has nothing to do with your suject but it reminded me of a funny story. My uncle use to deliver Propane and he had a elderly lady that kept claming her bill was way to high and that she knew she wasn't using that much Propane. One morning she called my uncle while being all worked up claiming she found out why her propane was disappearing. She clamed she woke up early that morning and out her window she saw a neighbor going down the alley behind her place with a 5 Gallon gas can. and he had a terrible time explaining to her that gas can wouldn't hold her propane. So sorry for the interruption there is just great advice on this forum and I love reading all you guys helpful hints it sure has helped me so thanks for posting.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:36 AM   #16
DonandBonnie
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Ozz, We use the generator as backup for occasions when plugging in is impossible. In the four months since we began full timing that has happened twice, once for three days when we had to seek shelter from the winds of Hurricane Sandy and a second when we had to overnight in an area where all campgrounds were closed for the season. Both cases it was cold enough that the furnace cycled on and off about every 10 minutes all night long. The first night of the Sandy shelter was when we got our education on frozen tanks. The second night we learned that the one battery that came with our Big Sky won't last all night. We had to jump start the dead battery the next morning. That was two lessons learned in a big hurry and thankfully in a situation that was more of an inconvenience than a potential disaster.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:54 AM   #17
bncinwv
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DonandBonnie,
One thing you might consider is the approach I took. I added a second battery but at the same time added a marine MBSS (selector switch) where I can turn from one battery to the other, use both or turn them off. The advantage is realized if you have an on-board generator particularly. If I drain a battery, I can switch to the other battery, start the on-board generator, and then charge the dead battery. Our rig is in a mini-storage facility, so I like to go the day before a trip to turn fridge on and I quickly found that the fridge and the other loads will drain the battery in a matter of a day or so. The second battery approach has worked flawlessly for us. Just a thought.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:01 AM   #18
DonandBonnie
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Bingo, I like that idea. On the nights where I know that one battery won't last through the night, I could use both. Is it possible to rig it up like the propane system so that when one drains to a low level, it automatically kicks over to the other battery?
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:07 AM   #19
bncinwv
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That starts to get complicated, however with our Onan, I bought the remote start system, that has the capability of monitoring the battery charge and when it reaches a certain voltage, it is supposed to automatically start the generator to charge the battery, then turns off the generator at a certain voltage as well. I think most motorhomes have this capability. I must admit, that I have not programmed this function yet. I do not know if there are auto-switchovers or not, I would have to leave that response to some of the electrical gurus present on the site.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:21 AM   #20
DonandBonnie
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Guess I've got to study the Onan manual to see if I have the same capability. Wonder if the propane would still freeze if the generator cycled in short bursts while the furnace is running.
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