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Old 10-24-2020, 02:42 PM   #41
R.S.O'Donnell
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
Like Bill said this discussion has changed but I think that is good. This country needs to talk about all of this.
I can see lots of problems ahead as we convert to a green future. How will we generate all the power for millions of EVs? What do we do with millions of used batteries? How do we pay for roads?
What part will nuclear play? There are new small modular nuclear power plants you carry to a site and assemble a that are supposed to be melt down proof. Are they a part of the future.
There are so many questions and so few answers. I hope we choose the right path for the sake of future generations.
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I agree.

I think EV's make the most sense for daily commuters where the car sit's all day and all night and can spend most of their time charging.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/04/...solar-carport/



Tesla was working on a battery swapping system for awhile but I haven't heard anymore about it. That's the only way cross country travel in an EV makes sense to me.

https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event


There are so many players for and against green energy that it's often hard to get a clear answer as to how viable it really is.

I do know for a fact that solar and lithium in an RV is viable as we lived off the grid for months at a time in our "C" with no need to run the generator at all except to exercise it as long as we stayed out of the heat.

Panels usually charged the batteries back to 100% by noon (depending on cloud cover) and the batteries easily lasted the night. Working on our system for our Montana now.
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:57 PM   #42
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As an individual that has grown up in the middle of the "oil patch" and now an epicenter of solar and wind farms, I can say from my experience oil is the way to go for the foreseeable future IMO.
............

Oil: in this area they are the largest contributor to the tax base - by a large margin. They build their own infrastructure, they receive no grants, free loans etc. - they carry their own weight and give back. They employ thousands of people 7x24x365, not just during construction. Fossil fuels are THE backbone of this country, our industrialization and our foreseeable future.

......... I would encourage anyone interested in delving into it a little deeper, past the media hype and paid "climatologists", to read a book called "Climate of Extremes" by Patrick J. Michaels and Robert C. Balling to get a more rounded view of the situation.
..
!
I certainly agree that the move toward electric vehicles and the reduced dependence, and use of, petroleum products is going to have a significant impact on the employment and tax bases of some local communities and on some states that are heavily into oil production. And the move to EVs will also heavily impact the labor force in automobile and truck production and service. No argument there.

As for reading a book on the affects of humans on climate change, there is a large problem there. There is an endless number of such books and studies on both sides of the table. And the majority of those are going to be somewhat, if not heavily, bias toward the agenda of the authors. You can read one book and become convinced their data and argument is overwhelming. Then read a second book using the same data and immediately question the first book and not too sure about the second. Two sides can take the same data, pick and choose what bits and pieces fit their agenda, ignore the rest, and create a convincing argument in their favor, and yet be completely opposing each other. And neither side will ever give an inch into any credibility of the other. That’s the way it has always been and will always be done. You might as well be arguing religion or politics.
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Old 10-24-2020, 03:17 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
I certainly agree that the move toward electric vehicles and the reduced dependence, and use of, petroleum products is going to have a significant impact on the employment and tax bases of some local communities and on some states that are heavily into oil production. And the move to EVs will also heavily impact the labor force in automobile and truck production and service. No argument there.

As for reading a book on the affects of humans on climate change, there is a large problem there. There is an endless number of such books and studies on both sides of the table. And the majority of those are going to be somewhat, if not heavily, bias toward the agenda of the authors. You can read one book and become convinced their data and argument is overwhelming. Then read a second book using the same data and immediately question the first book and not too sure about the second. Two sides can take the same data, pick and choose what bits and pieces fit their agenda, ignore the rest, and create a convincing argument in their favor, and yet be completely opposing each other. And neither side will ever give an inch into any credibility of the other. That’s the way it has always been and will always be done. You might as well be arguing religion or politics.



Agree completely. As long as everyone knows that what is being preached to them comes from a bias of some sort. There are a few climatologists that aren't "in the pocket" of special interests pushing an agenda....but few. That given, the only thing one can actually look at are historicals....and not just the past couple of centuries but millions.
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Old 10-24-2020, 04:00 PM   #44
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The argument over if it's happening is settled. The question of why will probably never be settled for many. Having lived in Florida for two decades I can confirm ocean levels are having a negative impact:




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Old 10-24-2020, 07:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by R.S.O'Donnell View Post
The argument over if it's happening is settled. The question of why will probably never be settled for many. Having lived in Florida for two decades I can confirm ocean levels are having a negative impact:




https://wjno.iheart.com/content/2019...ea-level-rise/

And:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe.../#776bb6ab1194
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:25 PM   #46
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Thanks.
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:41 PM   #47
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Bottom line is this.... There is no replacement for oil. Nothing. We have nothing that will get a plane, fighter jet, commercial airliners, nothing, to get those things off the ground. We do not have an industry of energy that will get those planes off the ground. We just don't. We are a long ways from it. We do not have anything, anywhere, near anything to replace oil. Period. End of story.
All of this hogwash about EVs, Wind, Solar, Hamsters, whatever... energizing anything that could oil could do? Not a chance. Not. One. Single. Chance.

And about Florida and the so called "rising seas". It's also hogwash. If there was any concern, ANY! concern about rising seas in Florida, then why are banks in south Florida handing out billions of dollars for Condo Development, Real Estate Development, Mansions, et al. You think these banks are just going to hand out this kind of dough if they think the seas are rising? I don't think so. Just some hapless dreams of some folks.
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:58 PM   #48
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Well that clears that up. Thank you.
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Old 10-24-2020, 09:06 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by BeagleMan View Post
Bottom line is this.... There is no replacement for oil. Nothing. We have nothing that will get a plane, fighter jet, commercial airliners, nothing, to get those things off the ground. We do not have an industry of energy that will get those planes off the ground. We just don't. We are a long ways from it. We do not have anything, anywhere, near anything to replace oil. Period. End of story.
All of this hogwash about EVs, Wind, Solar, Hamsters, whatever... energizing anything that could oil could do? Not a chance. Not. One. Single. Chance.

And about Florida and the so called "rising seas". It's also hogwash. If there was any concern, ANY! concern about rising seas in Florida, then why are banks in south Florida handing out billions of dollars for Condo Development, Real Estate Development, Mansions, et al. You think these banks are just going to hand out this kind of dough if they think the seas are rising? I don't think so. Just some hapless dreams of some folks.


Quote:
One measure of the impact of climate change is the estimated increase in the areas identified by FEMA as SFHAs, that is, areas where flood insurance is required. A 2013 study prepared for FEMA by AECOM and Deloitte Consulting LLP estimated that the area of the SFHAs will increase by 45 percent nationally on average by the end of this century. In coastal areas, SFHAs will increase by 55 percent, assuming no change in the shoreline. Under the more-likely assumption that shorelines recede, there will be no change in SFHAs; new SFHAs will simply replace the SFHAs that become submerged.

Any growth in SFHAs represents an increased burden on taxpayers. According to GAO estimates, the premiums pdf set by FEMA on NFIP flood insurance policies do not cover the risk. GAO gauged the subsidy for the years 2002 through 2013 at somewhere between $16 billion and $25 billion. Depending on assumptions about climate change and the amount of shoreline erosion, the AECOM study projects an increase between 20 and 90 percent in expected losses.

The climate risk assessment published by the Risky Business Project—an organization co-chaired by Michael Bloomberg, Henry Paulson, and Thomas Steyer—estimates that three-to-four percent of the US population will live in coastal SFHAs by 2100 and 11 percent of the US population will live in riverine (that is, inland) SFHAs. In addition, between $66 billion and $160 billion worth of real estate is expected to be below sea level by 2050. By the end of the century, the range is $238 billion to $507 billion.

The loss estimates above refer to insured properties with a high risk of flooding. However other areas will become permanently submerged, generating even larger losses. The Risky Business Project pdf estimates the cost of all structures likely to be destroyed by the end of the century due to shoreline movement at two to four percent of the cumulative insurance premiums paid through 2100. In Florida alone, this study estimates a 1-in-20 chance that more than $346 billion in current property will be underwater by 2100.
http://www.freddiemac.com/research/i...s_a_beach.page
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:09 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by R.S.O'Donnell View Post
The argument over if it's happening is settled. The question of why will probably never be settled for many. Having lived in Florida for two decades I can confirm ocean levels are having a negative impact:





This must be from 2006 picture. 'Cause in 1996 (I think) Gore said Florida would be under water in 10 years.
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:14 PM   #51
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And in another article I read, it was pointed out that wind generators AND solar panels are made with rare earth metals, which are, well, rare. And most are found in very undeveloped countries or China. And a lot or the mines are not modern and you have 12 year old kids lugging up rocks from the mine. AND the disposal of these solar panels is not a clean thing. AND the turbine blades contain a LOT of materials that can't be recycled. There are places in SD, Wy, and I think Sioux City or someplace in Iowa where they just cut them in thirds so they fit on a semi and hall them to these towns. There they are just stacked up in dumps.
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:17 PM   #52
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This Thread started with a reference to an EV truck. It has long since gone past that into a whole realm on non-RV related discussion. It is time to close this. There are lots of other forums where if you want to continue the discussion/ But the MOC is one of them.
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