Front Feet

[jackel1959]

John,
If you haven't done it already, re-check the connections on the auto reset breaker and the switches the landing gear and stabilizers are powered through. It might not make any sense but you may want to also consider replacing the auto reset breaker for the landing gear and stabilizers. I had one for my slides that was cracked and would kick off intermittently when I operated the slides. You should be able to pick up the breaker at just about any auto parts store. The amperage should be labeled on the breaker. Just a thought.

Intermittent electrical problems are some of the worst and most frustrating. It could still have something to do with the remote receiver. You may want to think about giving Lippert a call and explain to them what is going on. Maybe they have some other ideas.
Jack

[7.3Ford]

Since I couldn't find any lose wires or bad breakers, fuses, etc, took the Monty to Camping World Statesville... Will let you know what they find.

[7.3Ford]

quote:Originally posted by 7.3Ford - 3/16/2010

took the Monty to Camping World Statesville...

Guru.. Called Camping World yesterday, Paula was out. Called again today... they haven't even looked at it, will be tomorrow before the can look at it. Seems like it takes a 3-4 weeks every time you take it in for warranty work.

[KathyandDave]

I would look at the switches themselves. We have the 2009 10th Anniversary (bought in 2008) with the first generation of remote. Troubleshooting something else, I had a look at the switched. They are connected to very heavy wires that appear to apply stress to the connections at the switch. Maybe one of the connections has become intermittent?

[7.3Ford]

Well Camping World, finally got around to looking at my switches. Turns out there was a loose ground wire.

[jackel1959]

John,
That's great....I'm glad they found the problem. Do you know which ground wire it was?
Jack

[7.3Ford]

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959

John,
That's great....I'm glad they found the problem. Do you know which ground wire it was?
Jack

No, they weren't real informative. They didn't fix the handle on kitchen sink either. Second time I had it up there, and asked them to fix it.. Was installed wrong from when the replaced... I will just fix my self.

[7.3Ford]

Well the problem is back again. Half way up on the Front Feet and everything stop again. None the manual switches work. Remote control still worked, so I was able to get home last weekend.

Took it to Camping World today, they said it was the control box, and order a new one. I guess I will find out if that is the problem in about 1 week when the part arrives.

[RCN.Stoker]

Had exactly the same problem. The circuit board for the remote appears to isolate the manual switches when the remote circuit is energized. It stuck in that mode somehow and while the remote worked fine I couldn't use the manual switches. Obviously it wasn't anything to do with the power to the landing gear or stabilizers. My dealer's service manager seemed to have seen the problem before because he knew just how to fix it, a new board. I guess with every new gadget comes more failure points.

[jackel1959]

John,
Let me know if they end up replacing the remote receiver and if that fixes the problem.
Jack

[7.3Ford]

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959

John,
Let me know if they end up replacing the remote receiver and if that fixes the problem.
Jack

Well they replaced the control unit, everything work fine, until I got backup home. Half way up and the system quit. I disconnected the power to the control unit and reconnected it, and everything work again for a little while.

I replaced the 30amp circuit breaker to the control unit, with 40amp and things worked better. I also started having problem with the slides going in or out without popping the main 50amp circuit breaker. I replaced the 50amp breaker and everything is running normally now.

[stevemc]

Electrical problems can be tough, expecially when they are intermittent. Bad grounds can cause lots of problems but, nfortunately "loose ground" or "bad ground" is often code for "we couldn't find the problem but it started working so must be fixed". Sounds like your on the right track in the control box. Something in the circuitry may be resetting itself when you unplug it and plug it back in.

[GTOWag]

Maybe this will help some of you with this problem. The black box located in the forward storage compartment is called a lot of things. I will refer to it as the receiver since it receives the signals from the remote key fob/control to operate the slides awning, landing gear and rear stabilizers. The receiver has + and – 12 volt terminals on the right side to supply power to the receiver. This power is straight off the battery and protected by one of the circuit breaker below it. On the top of the receiver are another pair of + and – 12 volt terminals. These terminals are labeled “manual switches” and they supply 12 volt power to the outside switches for the landing gear, rear stabilizers and inside switches for the slides and awning. The only logic for this wiring set up is that when the remote control is turned on, the receiver disconnects power from the top + and - 12 volt output terminals so the manual switches cannot be used the same time the remote control is being used. How knows what kind of interference or problems this would cause if they were both used at the same time??
Here is the problem I experienced and my fix which so far has been working OK. After the warranty ran out (naturally) the outside switches for the Landing gear and rear stabilizers quit working. The inside switches for the slides and awning worked OK. After some meter work I found that the switches were getting power and working fine, but were not getting a ground. That is when I found that the top – 12 volt terminal was not providing ground for the switches. I removed the wire from the terminal and attached to chassis ground and shazam everything worked again.
This worked good for a couple months then all of a sudden the outside switches quit working again AND the inside switches for the slides and awning quit working also, but the remote worked OK. Getting the meter out again I found that the upper + 12 volt terminal for the manual switches was dead therefore not providing power to any of the manual switches. So I removed the + wire from the manual switches terminal and connected directly to the + 12 volt terminal for the receiver supply. Now everything works the way it is supposed to again. The only thing I have to remember is make sure both the remote and the manual switches are not used at the same time.
I never tried rebooting the receiver as mentioned in another thread. But from what I read, it only cured the problem temporarily anyway.
Evidently there is a transistor or relay inside the receiver that fails and opens the + and - 12 volt manual switch power supply. Of course the dealer is not going to do this work around, they are just going to order you a new receiver which comes with new switches and remote whether you need them or not and replace the receiver, probably for a nominal $400.00 to $500.00. Chances are that they don’t even know how the system works and just change out the parts. By the way, Lippert who sells this system to Keystone was absolutely no help at all and neither was Keystone.
I hope this is some help to you, especially if your warranty is expired. Let me know if this works for any of you.

[7.3Ford]

I had my receiver replaced only to have it quit within 2 hours. I have found powering it off an back on resets it, and it works fine for at while.

I have not had any more problems since replacing the circuit breaker with a 80Amp Car Auto circuit breaker.

[GTOWag]

That is another problem with the Montana's. Lippert said that the hydraulic pump can pull as much as 80 amp. So why does Keystone only use a 50 amp circuit breaker?? Because it is a lot cheaper than using an 80 amp like you installed. Also the 50 amp breaker will automatically reset its self. Another fix, which is approved by Lippert, is to replace the original 50 amp circuit breaker with a pair of 40 amp breakers wired in parallel. That is what I did and I no longer have circuit breakers tripping when operating the slides.

[pineranch]

GTOWag nailed this problem. I had the same external sw problem and TS it down to the grnd on the manual sw. Using my meter aligator clip extension I grounded the sw and lo and behold the external sw worked. Since then my CW tech rewired my external switches so my problem is solved. Having said that, others wanted to replace the circuit board which may or may not have solved the immediate problem. I know my ext sw will work and if the remote is in my pocket I won't be using it and the externals at the same time. Guys, if its a RV, boat, car, truck or airplane, bad grounds cause a lot of our problems.
Mike

[FLtravelers]

Let me edit this a bit.

Once again MOC has come to the rescue. I had this strange malady as well. Manual switch for landing gear quit but remote worked. I rarely use my manual switch for rear stabilizers, so never realized it wasn't working. Following GTOWag's example, I checked the ground coming out of the receiver unit - nada. I followed the ground wire and found 3 wires crimped together. One from the receiver, one to the rear stabilizers and one to the outside control. Attached ground from outside control to a chassis ground and landing gear works fine. Attached ground from stabilizers to chassis ground and they work fine. Tied off the ground wire on the receiver unit. I guess the only downside could be if I use the manual switches after I've enabled the remote. If anyone experiences a problem associated with using them both, I'd like to hear about it.

[Phil P]

Hi

I had the same problem. The receiver would not reset. Lippert was not helpful at all. After studding the unit extensively I found two problems. The wires marked “manual switches” are only #12. The wires that come into the unit from the battery are #10. There was only one circuit breaker and one 30-amp fuse in the entire system. I came to the conclusion the relay that opens the circuit to the manual switches had failed. Also Keystone had not installed fuses or circuit breakers for any of the power or control leads except the pump for the slides and the battery wire to the receiver.

Keystone will not help at all. They will not even acknowledge there is a wiring diagram for the unit.

So I called Lippert again. I got some one that at least would do more than just tell me to send then $250 for a new receiver. When I mentioned the absence of circuit breakers and fuses this gentleman gave me the proper values and which wires should have fuses and which should have circuit breakers.

Bought a six-fuse fuse panel and three circuit breakers from NAPA. Removed the receiver from the unit. Mounted the fuse panel in place of it. Fused the control wires for the manual switches in accordance with the information provided and install circuit breakers in the power supply lines for the slides, landing gear jacks and stabilizers. The awning has nothing to do with Lippert so I just guessed at the size of the fuse for it.

Have not had any problems with power interruption to any of these appliances since this modification.

Lippert would not comment on the difference in wire sizes but Keystone had butt spliced all of the ground wires from these appliances including the landing gear jacks to the – wire that goes to the receiver marked “manual switches”. The landing gear – wire is a #10. I am convinced that the receiver was never intended to carry a 40-amp current thru that #12 ground wire.

Phil P

[FLtravelers]

Phil - sounds like a lot of work. You say you removed the receiver? Does that mean that you can't use the remote anymore?

[Phil P]

Hello FLtravelers

That is correct. I no longer have the remote working.

The way the system works if both the slides and say the stabilizers happen to be operated at the same time the circuit in the receiver is not heavy enough to handle the combined load. The receiver is designed to stop working if the remote and a manual switch is activated at the same time but has no circuit to prevent two manual switches from being used at the same time. The receiver has to switch the + and – power to the landing gear jacks, stabilizers and awning to reverse the motors. For this reason the receiver has to disconnect the manual switches from the circuit to eliminate the short circuit that would happen when the receiver switches the polarity to reverse one of them.

So when my wife being helpful runs the stabilizers with the manual switch to start extending them while I am leveling the trailer with the landing gear manual switch the relay in the receiver takes a high amperage load until it fails. I think the ‘reset” everyone is talking about is just the relay cooling while they are in the process of shutting the dc power off to the receiver. It doesn’t take many of these events to finally cause the relay in question to fail permanently.

Unfortunately Lippert didn’t make any provision to replace a relay. They potted every thing into one unit. Lippert wants $250 for a replacement. We don’t use the remote very often anyway so I just removed the unit.

The problem is not all Lipperts. Keystone didn’t fuse any of the wires that go to the manual switch wires at the receiver. If they had fused the – and + leads maybe the problem could be prevented. The problem I see is the smallest fuse that could be used at this location would be a 30-amp fuse. The wires Lippert used at this location are #12. This indicates the receiver was not intended to handle a 30-amp load.

Phil P