Residential and, actually RV furnace awareness - Montana Owners Club

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 10:13 AM

Some, maybe many, do not actually know what a furnace heat exchanger is. It does what it is called. They are envelopes of sort, many in each furnace, they are called barrel, clam, chamber, cell and so on. They have an opening above the flame, or heat source, and an exit, up or out the flue. Your heat exchanger is made from thin metal, designed to contain a fueled fire, transmit the fire's heat to your living space, and vent the toxic gasses and by-products outside.
They fail, people.
Holes, cracks, splits, all very common. Moisture that mixes with exhaust gasses becomes acidic, that eats holes in the metal. Moisture comes from humidifiers, leaking A/C coils, humidity in the home and so on. There is enough acidic moisture content in burning fuel to corrode bare metal quickly.
Long story longer, get a yearly furnace check by a qualified furnace company, too much at stake not to!
http://tinyurl.com/lw3p4m

BB_TX · 08-29-2009, 10:40 AM

Great info, Ozz. And timely also since winter will be approaching before we know it.
We all electric in the stick house and have a heat pump, so don't have the concern. But definitely intend to keep an eye on the furnace in the Monty.

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 10:48 AM

Thanks, BB TX, It's a great idea to have a Carbon Monoxide detector as well

noneck · 08-29-2009, 11:59 AM

Been awhile since we got to read a post from you. Welcome back...

mrosser · 08-29-2009, 12:01 PM

Ozz, I am getting ready to replace my 15 year old stick house unit for that very reason, Didn't know I had a problem until I was getting the unit serviced this past spring, AC works fine but heat exchanger has a hole in it.

Any brands that you would recommend?

Thanks

ole dude · 08-29-2009, 12:36 PM

Ozz, Maybe before your time. To detect holes in heat-x-changers we used to use one of the flyspray rigs that were in most homes, put salt water in them and turn the furnace on and spray a mist of salt water into the burner area. We then used an old Halide leak detector to sample the air, if we got a green flame from detector we figured a bad heat-x-changer. Much simpler to find these days with the new tools. Certainly is good advice that you brought forward.

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by noneck

Been awhile since we got to read a post from you. Welcome back...

Thank you, my friend. It is good to see you are here.

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 01:01 PM

Ole dude, Interesting, there is a guy that has made his carrier about inspection of heat exchangers, he has a book out, gives lectures and all on them. Has all brands listed and where the weak spots are on them. A VERY common problem in the industry. I will purchase a good combustion analyzer with a print-out, for my service this winter, also a video inspection tool, may spring for the one with a camera, memory card. It has a magnet attachment for retrieving objects, as well as a hook attachment. (Rigid, like my Pipe wrenches.) Tools, tools, always something to spend on..

NCFischers · 08-29-2009, 01:11 PM

Ozz,
Thanks for the heads up. Checking the propane detector needs to be a frequent PM item.

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by mrosser

Ozz, I am getting ready to replace my 15 year old stick house unit for that very reason, Didn't know I had a problem until I was getting the unit serviced this past spring, AC works fine but heat exchanger has a hole in it.

Any brands that you would recommend?

Thanks

Wow, so many to choose from, so many options on entry, medium and high end, two speed blowers, two stage gas valves, and on and on.
How much we want to spend, how long we will be concerned about 'lifetime of equipment' Heat pump, with dual fuel back-up...
I would go with a reputable contractor in your area, get a 20 yr., to lifetime heat exchanger warranty, and a 10-15 year labor warranty. This will narrow down the choices for you. The labor policies are only around $300.00, Also, the warranty is transferable to the new owner; (Your Kids, maybe

Get 3 bids, evaluate each one, don't let anyone pressure you.
If you don't already have a R-410 refrigerant A/C, it is time to maybe get a package deal, you can get a local utility company rebate, as well as a $1500 tax credit, in most cases with a high end furnace/A/C unit change.
Good luck with it.
Ozz Jim

HughM · 08-29-2009, 01:36 PM

OZZ, We are sure glad you're back. We worried that something might have happen to you. Rumor is,,,just a rumor, is that you have been working so hard and making so much money that you sat down and fell off of your billfold!!!!
Just a rumor but we are glad you're back....you have been missed more than you know.
Hugh

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 02:39 PM

Thank you Hugh, it's guys and gals like you that make this place one a person comes back to.
Appreciate it...if I had any money, I would be down at the San Antonio rally bugging everyone. Or, living over the ridge in them hills they talk about.

OntMont · 08-29-2009, 02:53 PM

Ozz, we are in about the same boat, but we are considering a ground source heat pump. Bard is the brand that has been proposed to us. Seems to have all the bells and whistles you mentioned. As an idependent observer, I would value your thoughts on Bard products and Ground source heat pumps in general. We do not have natural gas in our area, and our 37 year old oil furnace can't last much longer. There are (Canadian)government grants to help defray about 50% of the considerable installation cost. We would not need any fossil fuel and if things got really tough, we could probably get a wind turbine to provide power. PM me if you wish. This is hardly a Montana related topic, but ain't the MOC great? You can find out anything you need to know.

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 03:06 PM

I think we are OK on our topic, Around the campfire should be a proper place.
Never heard of Bard, but I also am active on a great HVAC site. I will do some investigation and report back to you. Those old units were built like a tank. I removed an old American Standard, it must have weighed 600#. I have recently replaced the same size unit and it was very manageable.
Good to hear from you.

mrosser · 08-29-2009, 03:54 PM

Thanks for the info Ozz, I have had several quotes & each one recomends something different, so who knows?

thanks again,

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by mrosser

Thanks for the info Ozz, I have had several quotes & each one recomends something different, so who knows?

thanks again,

Let me know the brand names, deals thery are offering and prices if you can.
Can you fax me copies of them?

Ozz · 08-29-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by OntMont

Ozz, we are in about the same boat, but we are considering a ground source heat pump. Bard is the brand that has been proposed to us. Seems to have all the bells and whistles you mentioned. As an idependent observer, I would value your thoughts on Bard products and Ground source heat pumps in general. We do not have natural gas in our area, and our 37 year old oil furnace can't last much longer. There are (Canadian)government grants to help defray about 50% of the considerable installation cost. We would not need any fossil fuel and if things got really tough, we could probably get a wind turbine to provide power. PM me if you wish. This is hardly a Montana related topic, but ain't the MOC great? You can find out anything you need to know.

Here is a quote from one of my friends up by the border, him saying it's OK, means it's a good one.
It's an OK unit. They make a lot of specialty systems like hang-um-on-the-wall A/C's for server rooms and portable school rooms and such. I have one customer that has 5 of the older residential split systems and last time I was there a few years ago they were all just running fine. All off the shelf replacement parts and compressors.

Mudchief · 08-29-2009, 05:29 PM

Good reminder Ozz. We have that done every year before we fire it up. And we do it early so if there is a problem we have time to get it fixed.

OntMont · 08-30-2009, 03:36 AM

Thanks Ozz,

I was not familiar with the Bard brand name, it is good to get some endorsement from an independent pro. I think we will go with the ground source heat pump. I am nervous about the long term cost of propane as a heating fuel for the house.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ozz
Here is a quote from one of my friends up by the border, him saying it's OK, means it's a good one.
It's an OK unit. They make a lot of specialty systems like hang-um-on-the-wall A/C's for server rooms and portable school rooms and such. I have one customer that has 5 of the older residential split systems and last time I was there a few years ago they were all just running fine. All off the shelf replacement parts and compressors.

ole dude · 08-30-2009, 04:28 AM

Seems as I remember working on Bard brand units as long as 30 or so years ago, so they have been around awhile. And yes, most were hang-um-on the wall units in portable buildings, job shacks in the oil patch and such. After I started working mostly on industrial size hvac equipment, kinda lost track of residential size equipment. I would think a company that has survived in the industry for that long would have a pretty good product line as well as a good dealer network.

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