Buying a 3400RL Montana - Page 9 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 05-07-2006, 05:52 AM

This is a great forum..Just returned from C.W and got the above mentioned gate. 17.99 .Takes like 30 seconds to install we now can have 76 gal of gray water when camping with no sewer hookup which we will be doing this weekend. Also got some of those Velcro sticky straps to keep cabinets from opening when traveling. I think the Mor-Ryde suspension and Pin box may help in that area but why take a chance.

Montana Sky · 05-07-2006, 12:40 PM

I checked the washer drain plumbing last week. My washer (when I get it installed) drains into the grey tank, but the bathroom sink does drain into the black tank. Since I do not do any dry camping for me this is not much of an issue.

richfaa · 05-07-2006, 01:48 PM

Things to check..Spent about two hours under the 3400 today in my ongoing post-PDI..two things... The person who dressed up the wiring going to the brakes on the right side of the camper was a excellent workman who took pride in his/her work.The person who did the left side wiring was a total incompetent who needs to be fired on the spot.Wires not dressed and rubbing on the drum..a brake problem waiting to happen. Then there is the underbelly. Execpt for where the screws are attaching the underbelly to the frame I can get a pencil between the frame and the underbelly and in many places my pudgy fingers. It makes the artic package a joke..Like having your house insulated then leaving the windows open. I will seal the underbelly at a later date. We are very satisfied with the camper as a whole..the PDI's were perfect, fit and finish excellent..well execpt for the shelves in the W/D closet being installed upside down. I thought they looked odd. We are super impressed with the Mor-Ryde suspension and Pin Box not to mention the docking station. This thing has a LOT of storage space inside and out.

dsprik · 05-07-2006, 02:52 PM

Rich I have that belly spacing issue on my PDI list. Is that something for a Pre-PDI? I also have those pesky brake wires on my list. I would think that should be a "Pre" also. What do you think?

Montana Sky · 05-07-2006, 03:17 PM

Rich,
I bought two rolls of Darko tape from the dealership. I am going to use this to seal the underbelly panel to the frame around the entire coach. This tape is "supposed" to be 5x's stronger than duct tape and will not come loose once it is applied due to wind or water (rain) while driving down the road. The dealership said this is what many of the rv makers are using to seal up alot of the under belly sections of 5th wheels and travel trailers. Will have to wait until the shoulders heal alot more from surgery 2 weeks ago. The guy at the shop also claimed that this stuff is so strong that mice would not be able to chew through it either. Just thought I would pass this along, 2 rolls cost me $19 and would be more than enough to do the entire coach almost twice around.

SKOOBDO · 05-07-2006, 03:18 PM

My Washer/Dryer Combo drains into the Grey Water Tank. I have a 2006 1/2 3500 unit. When I wash clothes (generally on the weekend), I make sure the grey tank valve is closed and with a full load at the full capacity cycle (which is very long), the grey tank fills up to about 2/3rd. After finish washing clothes, I open the black tank and follow it by the grey tank (with all the sudsy water) to clean out the sewer hose....and then I use the "No Fuss Black Tank Sprayer" (which is just wonderful)...and my Black Tank is ready for another week. I could go probably go about 3 weeks without dumping the Black Tank, but since I'm on a schedule (weekly), when I use the toliet through out the week I use lots of water each time I flush it so I won't have any problem with toliet paper clogging anywhere. Allison

Montana Sky · 05-07-2006, 03:27 PM

Allison,
Sounds like you have got a great system down. I would think you should have no trouble with any clogging of you black tank with your method of operation. Glad to hear your new 3500RL is treating you well. =)

dsprik · 05-07-2006, 03:38 PM

Dave, but what that tape look like? Is it semi-matching, so it doesn't look like you 5ver is all "taped up"?

richfaa · 05-07-2006, 04:13 PM

Thanks Montana Sky I did a print on the underbelly tape post.We never intended to actually use the arctic package but these are places for "things" to crawl into so we will deal with that later.Dsprik it is really a little thing..poor design on the manufacturers part but not a hard thing to make right yourself. The brake wires are a crawl under the camper thing. I made sure there were no TBC errors on the PDI and I did note the hanging wires on the PDI and moved them out of harms way till we got home.I really think that when the campers get to ther "hook up the drain" section it is more or less a free for all as to what drains to where. I can look under the camper and see the separate drain pipe from the W/D to just behind the main drain valve.

Montana Sky · 05-07-2006, 07:27 PM

Dave~ dsprik
It is Black! Should match up without any trouble.

Rich,
This is my 3rd season with this coach and I have not had it done yet. Was hoping to have it done last season, but the shoulders were not up to it. Now that both shoulder operations are complete I am hoping this will be the year it is completed. It has not caused me any trouble when it comes to heating the coach during the spring and fall months. Should make a nice winter project for you while you are down south enjoying the warm temps...

dsprik · 05-08-2006, 03:48 AM

Rich, I'll be curious as to what their weekly meeting decided on the drain pipe routing for next week when Cheryl and I do our Tour.

Dave, that tape sounds permanent. What if you need to get in there to service the underbelly? Do you know the cost? And is this something that we "bad shoulder" guys can do ourselves?

sreigle · 05-08-2006, 04:23 AM

I also plugged up the larger openings in the bellypan on ours but am reluctant to seal between the bellypan panels. When the furnace pumps hot air into the belly to keep the lines and tanks from freezing the air displaced has to go somewhere. If you seal the belly too tight I have to think you would reduce the volume of hot air going into the belly and probably increase backpressure on the furnace, to some small degree. Plus, I don't think those small gaps where the panels overlap are going to let in very much air, are they? I could see adding a screw where the gaps are large, though. This is probably not a big deal for those who don't spend any time in a really cold climate but for those of us who live in the Montana during zero degree weather this could be a big consideration. Just a thought. I'm not an expert on this. I do know that those small gaps don't seem to hurt anything down to about five below zero, fahrenheit, so long as the furnace does its thing.

Richfaa, does yours have three drain lines below the belly? Ours has just two, the main drain for the gray and black tanks plus a smaller pipe coming from the rear galley tank. Our washer drains into the gray tank with all plumbing up in the belly. If you have a third one for the washer then does it drain directly to the dump pipe and not into any of the tanks? I think I'd like that arrangement.

dsprik · 05-08-2006, 04:38 AM

I would be worried about bees, wasps, mice, etc getting in, although I haven't heard alot about that on the forum (except for the mice). Maybe if one was so inclined, they could seal up the belly, then to reduce back pressure when the furnace is on, you could cut a hole somewhere in the side of the belly (near the bottom to move the cold air out first) and install one of those home dryer vent louvered covers. That would keep things sealed up, then allow circulation when the furnace kicks on.

I would keep it as far away from the furnace inlet as possible, and low, to make sure you don't circulate the newly heated air right back to the outside.

yvonnenid · 05-08-2006, 05:13 AM

Hi Rich,
Just curious, what tires did you get on your Monty? Also, did you get the Quest 3000? If so, how do you like it?

richfaa · 05-08-2006, 05:16 AM

I would agree with you Steve about not sealing up the underbelly to tight.Our main concern is , as Daves, Things crawling up there.Where they cut out the underbelly panel around the springs there is a large hole on both sides. The dealer did a good job, on my direction, to plug up all the holes where Water lines, electrical wiring, etc went up into the underbelly. If we get anywhere were it is 5 degree we made a wrong turn somewhere. We have in addition to the 3 inch main drain under the camper a smaller one that runs from the Bathroom area..we are told that is from the Bathroom sink that at one time drained into the black tank.We also have another smaller drain(1 inch I would say) that runs directly from the W/D closet into the main 3 inch drain. The shower drains into the gray tank and of course the Galley into the Galley tank.Now there is a disadvantage to the W/D shunting directly to the main drain..You should have full hookups to do laundry as the W/D does not drain into any tank however I would guess that the W/D water would backup into the gray tank..maybe...as there is no way to tell??? Put that question on your factory tour list Dave..Keystone sure keeps you thinking don't they..Lucky we have this forum for checking things out.

richfaa · 05-08-2006, 05:24 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by yvonnenid

Hi Rich,
Just curious, what tires did you get on your Monty? Also, did you get the Quest 3000? If so, how do you like it?

We got the Missions which we will keep on the camper till we start to do some serious traveling..We also got the Quest 3000 system which Helen got working perfectly. I have high frequeny hearing loss so if it has bass I am good. Helen however is a singer and has to have her tunes.She says it is not all that bad.We have always upgraded the sound systems in our campers and it is on our long list to do the same here.

dsprik · 05-08-2006, 05:43 AM

I've copied that onto my list, Rich.

sreigle · 05-08-2006, 07:02 AM

Interesting about the third drain pipe. Our washer drains directly into the shower/bathroom gray tank. It will fill up after about two loads. Or maybe before the end of the second load. That creates a big mess. I have done that twice when I forgot to open the gray tank dump valve.

You could, however, do at least one load if you needed to without being hooked up to sewer. With your drain situation you'd need to add an extra dump valve (like I did) right there by the dump cap. You can now buy a twist on valve at CW that works great. You'd then close that extra valve and open your gray tank valve. The water from the washer would then divert into the gray tank. Just don't put more than a wash or two in there. If you also opened the galley tank valve you could get three, maybe four loads done without a sewer hookup.

We mostly use the extra valve so the two gray tanks are shared when we do not have a sewer hookup. We fill up the shower tank quickly and the galley tank less so. Sharing tanks lets us go a couple days longer before going to a dump station. I also close that extra valve when dumping the galley tank so that water goes back into the (open) black tank and helps flush it out. Thanks to HamRad for that idea. It works great. I then follow with the usual flush connection.

We have the same big holes by the axles. In the winter I stuff rags there to close it up. Someday I'll get some expanding foam insulation and see if I can fill it up. I used the foam to plug a lot of openings but left the belly pan gaps. Ours are really not very big and we've had no problems to speak of with insects and mice, although some folks have. I figure they're going to get in if they want in no matter what I do. So I'm more concerned with keeping the cold out while leaving some room for air to exit when the furnace is running. Sounds like you have covered it pretty well.

Dsprik, interesting idea about the dryer vent in the belly but ours has no vertical surface on which to mount it. It would have to be on the horizontal and the vanes wouldn't stay closed. Our dryer vent on the side of the Montana tends to stick open anyhow. One could probably fashion an attachment under the belly with a vertical wall if one really wanted to do this.

richfaa · 05-08-2006, 08:06 AM

Got that extra dump valve Steve. Saw that it was a good idea by a couple of other posters.That's what I like about this forum.We all use our campers in a different manner.Your concern is keeping the cold out and mine is keeping critters out. I've got several tubes of that expanding foam insulation stuff but we are going to hold off doing any more hole sealing till we are sort of confident that we have no leaks,We will use that tape that Montana Sky recommends to do the edges of the underbelly. Think our enviromential guys used it in the FAA center Building A/C systems.

Montana Sky · 05-08-2006, 08:14 AM

Steve,
Great thought about sealing up the entire bottom. The plan that I have is to use the tape around the frame work only, not across the width where the panel overlaps. If you look under your living room slides (while open) you can see the frame where they have drilled screws into the panel to "seal" it up. These screws are placed about every 4" or so along the entire coach, except on mine they seemed to miss a few feet here and there. The dealership added screws to the panel to help close some of the area. There was so much room I could have stuck my entire arm in some areas as the screws were not even there. As stated in a earlier thread I had a mouse problem last year, I could not keep the things out and I tried everything. I took the coach into the shop and they "traced" the point of insertion to my kitchen slide and rear tv/computer desk slide. The service tech pointed out all the insulation the mice pulled out and the little presents they left while being in there. He added the additional screws, but said that if I really want to keep "things" out, I would have to use this Darko tape and seal up along the frame areas. This is due to the access the wheels and springs provide the litte critters. I have not done this little project yet as I want to see if my mouse problem returns or if the screws he installed has sealed up the area well enough to keep them out.

Dave,
I am thinking this is a project that you or I could handle. At a very slow non hurry pace that is... The cost for the Darko tape was $19 for 2 rolls.

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