Buying a 3400RL Montana - Page 5 - Montana Owners Club

Fordzilla · 04-12-2006, 05:13 AM

Thing are looking up there Rich. I would try and do a predelivery PDi as well. That way if you find anything they can get it repaired quickly, and you can still take delivery on the 3rd.

dsprik · 04-12-2006, 10:38 AM

Weren't we going to send Bill a list of items to have his service people check before we get there to do the PDI, Rich? I believe we talked about doing that with the shower drain seal for one thing.

richfaa · 04-12-2006, 11:18 AM

Yes I updated that list today. I will Honda over there before the pick up date with the updated list and the PDI so we and the service department understand what is going to happen.We already had a chat with them when we went
over to buy the Kipor. They will then have the list and will understand that you will also be using it. Since we can't pick it up for a week after it is delivered to the dealership we will Honda over there(it is only 45 mins) from my driveway and get a jump on the PDI. If there is anything nasty wrong with it we can catch it in advance... I am thinking positive. As one time hippy Helen says..send some positive energy over to those skilled old world craftsman.

Montana Sky · 04-12-2006, 02:59 PM

Rich,
Congrats on the great news!!!! You and Helen have been waiting along time for this day; hope the same quality that was used to build my coach is apparent on yours as well.

richfaa · 04-12-2006, 03:59 PM

Well you know Montana Sky although i am hard on Montana workmanship and quality and that is because I bought one..don't care about the other guys.I also understand that the vast majority of Montana's will be trouble free or have minor issues, It is just that I KNOW that a little quality Control goes a long way and our Montana's could be a whole lot better with little effort on Keystones part. We will of course do a complete in depth PDI but the probability is high that we will have no major issues and few if any minor ones. But for 40K I expect a quality unit..I've only got $500.00 invested in this thing and 3 major issues are the limit..if we find three they can hook it up and take it back to Goshen. I don't expect that and I don't think this dealership would let that happen.

We know they are building the unit this week as we got the VIN # this Morning

Longwell · 04-13-2006, 03:38 AM

How exciting! We can't wait to get to your present stage!
Keep us informed, OK?
Larry and April

rickfox · 04-15-2006, 05:21 AM

Rich,

As I mentioned in another post, titled FM antenna problems, you should be aware of this potential problem. All the facts are possibly not in yet, but if my suspisions are correct, the likely fix is to install a real FM antenna - somewhere, somehow.

richfaa · 04-15-2006, 06:10 AM

I did note your post. I had already decided to install a real antenna.One of I am a those "Y" FM antenna's would probably work ok. I am also not going to use strange sat/cable/tv system they install.I will poke a couple of holes through the walls in the appropriate places and direct wire them.It is not just Keystone I think all those system come out of the "office of diabolical engineering"

Montana Sky · 04-15-2006, 07:31 AM

I had the Qwest 1000 replaced last year with the Qwest 2000 model and it came with the "Y" antenna, the shop used two screws to mount the antenna bracket to the wall just left of the subwoofer. I had the unit replaced again this spring under my extended warranty, wanted to get the 3000 model but the warranty would only put the 2000 back in. The new unit seems to be better than the previous one, will find out as I head out today. The problem for me is I spend my summers in a area that is far enough away that I do not get many radio stations anyway. Cd's and DVD's take care of that...

richfaa · 04-20-2006, 12:50 PM

We are advised that our 3400 was completed today and is awaiting transport to the Dealer in Clyde,Ohio.It is expected to be there Monday the 24th.Due to schedule conflicts and other commitments we will be unable to take a day to do a full PDI and the paperwork till May 3rd. I do however have Friday the 28th free and will take a run to the dealer and do a preliminary checkout.Hopefully I will find no major issues or none that can not be corrected by the 3rd of May.We did send them the "list"

Text of E-Mail

Rich,

If I had that many problems with any of our units I would find another job. I put the blame on the dealership that sold these units. A blind man would find most of these problems. It is a shame that a few bad dealers give the whole industry a bad name. I have passed your list on to the head of our PDI department. Thanks for the heads up.

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard LaScola
To: Bill Tea
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:51 AM
Subject: List

These are issues taken from the Montana Owners Forum that were found by folks when doing the delivery PDI. These are items from the last FOUR months. These are real issues found by real people on real Montana's. I place the blame, in many cases on the buyer who ran in was told all was ok, hooked up drove off, went camping and..the black tank would not drain or..water from the shower poured into the underbelly, or a slide gasket was not properly installed.They should never have driven off the lot till all was properly checked..We want to identify any major issue and correct them before we leave the lot. With fuel prices what they are we cannot be running back and forth to Clyde.. This is not the PDI list but a list of issues found by buyers within the last 4 months.. I am confident that ours will be trouble free.

dsprik · 04-20-2006, 01:36 PM

Sounds great, Rich! I can tell your heart rate is picking up.

indy roadrunner · 04-20-2006, 01:48 PM

Best wishes with the new unit. I know you have been anticipating this day for a long time and the excitement is building. I am sure you will find most everything in order.

sreigle · 04-20-2006, 01:52 PM

I'm scratching my head as to how one would test to see if the black tank will drain fully and accurately while the brand new never used rig is still at the dealer??? Filling it full of water and draining it is not going to ensure there are no problems although it will catch some. Same for the shower. Some of those leaks into the belly might not show up until it sloshes to a seam while going down the road. Slide gaskets might well look properly installed to the untrained eye but still leak. Been there on that one. Very few people are expert enough (including me) on these things to be able to identify all problems while at the lot. Plus, not all problems show up right away. Some don't show until the rig has been used a bit. I personally think it is a bit naive to think all problems will be identified while the rig is sitting on the lot. No offense intended. Just too many years of doing this to believe that.

richfaa · 04-20-2006, 02:21 PM

You are correct Steve. We have tested computer systems for months and they run perfect then put them on line under real time conditions and guess what..not everything works properly or problems develop. My goal is to do just what we did on new computer systems.RV'ers call it a PDI we called it a JAI (joint acceptance inspection) The dealer and the buyer will go down a check list, test by test and everything will work perfect under static conditions or as dynamic as we can get them// The A/C will work, the furnace will heat, the toilet will flush, The tanks will drain and will not leak, My TBC will show no brake errors, All the screws will be in the cabinets. The TV.Stereo/ speakers/DVD will work, there will be no plumbing leaks,etc ,etc,etc. Any discrepancy will be repaired on the lot or the camper does not move or get paid for. According to a dealer friend of mine in the business for a long time and a Keystone (not a Montana) dealer, I can expect to drag the camper back to the dealer at least two times in the 1st three months. For problems that did not show up in the initial testing or developed after the testing.. We accept that. Worst case, and We have the greatest confidence that it will not happen, We would have no problem what-so-ever forfeiting the 500.00 we have in the unit and walking away. No offense intended but we also have been doing this for many years and this is the way it is going to be....

sreigle · 04-20-2006, 02:55 PM

I didn't intend to suggest you not test everything you possibly can. I think doing just that makes a lot of sense and you are right in doing that. And I'm glad to see you recognize you probably will need to take it back for those things not found or not able to be found during the PDI.

I can relate to your computer analogy. That was my career. In the application development end of the business. We called it acceptance testing but we in the development areas did much more exhaustive pre-testing than the user acceptance testing even though that was in itself very comprehensive. Our testing was called regression testing. Most of our end-users were unaware of the regression testing. Problems still occasionally got through.

Good luck. I hope you get a good one.

CountryGuy · 04-20-2006, 04:00 PM

We had a few problems with our unit, some showed up with PDI, those were fixed before the cash changed hands. But, our worse problems by far, showed up after 9 months of use, 3 of which were constant use over the first winter, and after 6000 miles on the unit. For sure, do the PDI (Ours took 8 hours times 2 people), and have all the stuff fixed that you see or find. Then our best advice is use it hard, have a great time, and pray! I'm with Steve on this one, not all the problems are gonna show without some use, and some will not show without HEAVY use!

richfaa · 04-20-2006, 04:10 PM

Our first real air traffic computer system was the IBM 9020 which was a bunch of IBM 360's specially designed for Air traffic use.We worked with IBM for TWO years in the acceptance phase . That was a looong time ago but I believe we began installation in 1968 or so..I know I went to the school in 1971 11 months. Then you understand..I am big on testing. I was a member of the National airspace installation Office (NASPO)that did all the testing and acceptance on the FAA computer systems.You are absolutely correct..you can test till you are blue in the face, cover every possibility and the damm thing will still not perform like it was designed to do. Installing patches was a near everyweek occurrence.. The trouble with us computer geeks Steve is that we are to darn logical.I am trying to get out of that habit..The other day at our "old" guys breakfast on of the guys said "somethings never change 1+1 is always 2"and I shot back with out even thinking..Nope in the binary number system 1+1=10. Why did I say that..We will have to compare notes when we meet.Of course we will bore everyone to death. I am confident that I will get a good one.

sreigle · 04-20-2006, 04:32 PM

One of Vicki's favorite phrases is "I hate it when you get logical on me." Yes, that is one of my failings. I tend to over-analyze and think logical thought should lead to a logical and accurate conclusion. Vicki sometimes tell me to stop analyzing the movie and just sit back and enjoy it.

Many computer systems are critical. But FAA Air Control systems ... a mistake could cost a lot of lives. That is critical.

A couple of years ago I would say, with all honesty, that I was 39 years old. Then I'd mumble under my breath, "in hex." That doesn't work any more. I turned 3A and now am 3B in hex. One of the early machines I worked with in the Navy was the Univac 1218, which used the octal numbering system. An octal number is larger, however. In octal I am 73. And in binary I am 111011 years old.

Montana Sky · 04-20-2006, 05:07 PM

The 3rd of May will be here before you know it. I look forward to hearing how your PDI and pick up works out.

richfaa · 04-21-2006, 03:03 AM

And I am 1000100 base2 104 base8..We don't look bad for our age..base8. One of my favorite sayings..."data never lies" or "garbage in, garbage out." But I am just a bus driver now and a soon to be longtimer Rv'er.. I actually feel confident in the PDI because of our dealers attitude toward customer satisfaction.They have the PDI we will do and the "list" from the MOC forum and over week before we show up to do PDI so I don't think we will see any problems..we shall see???

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