Suspension upgrade for 2005 F-250

[Biggjb]

I am hoping someone has some advice for me. I currently have a 2005 F-250 SD Lariat, which according to Ford has a 5th wheel capacity of 15,000 lbs. My current 5th Wheel has a GVWR of 14,400 lbs, which I have never came close to. I am currently looking at new 5th wheels and the one I am interested in has a GVWR of 16,000 lbs. I was considering buying a new F-350 but someone suggested that I just upgrade the suspension on my F-250. Does anyone have any advice. I am currently using E-rated tires on the rear (SRW) and know that I may need to at least upgrade my tires. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[bncinwv]

Can't really help you here as I have a dually, but I will be watching this thread with great interest, considering that the last couple along these same lines were quite informative. I will suggest that you read the last couple of threads under this topic for some insight. I hope Rich gets here, then perhaps I can share his popcorn??
Bingo

[racerjoe]

check with member Art-n-Marge he upgradeded his truck and had a list of parts and supplies

[richfaa]

I am popping the popcorn.

[Recumbent]

For me this brings to mind the programming routine IF THEN ELSE, IF spending more money is no issue THEN buy bigger, ELSE upgrade your current truck. You can make either path you take work for you. Here is what we did in a similar situation. We previously had a lighter coach and towed with an F250 that actually met (just barely) all the weight ratings, and was a real good truck and towed real well. When we decided that we would buy a heavier rig we traded trucks first, then shopped for a bigger rig. There are many opinions on this subject and I always enjoy reading them. I sure would enjoy seeing Bingo's cartoon of the "Weight Police" posted one more time.

[bncinwv]

C'mon Garry, that started a mini-controversy last time!! Refrain, refrain, refrain! I like extra butter, Rich!!
Bingo

[Irlpguy]

Sorry Rich I will make my own popcorn as you are just too far away to share. I will give one piece of advise and make one statement to the OP before turning on my own PC maker.

1) Read at least the first post here: http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=55139

2) I guarantee your GVWR on your F250 is not 15,000 lbs, your maximum towing capacity may be that amount, but more importantly the GVWR is not. Look at the sticker on the drivers side door or frame.

[8.1al]

I don't believe he said the truck's GVWR is 15,000 lbs.

[Irlpguy]

No Charlie he did not say that, however someone not familiar with the Jargon might assume that if told by the Ford dealer he could haul a 5th wheel weighing 15,000 lbs he might think that was all the information he needed. That simply is not the correct way to assess the capacity of his vehicle. I am sure you are well aware of this, and if you read my post throughout you will see that I referred to both in my post. The OP referenced the GVWR of his current RV as being 14,400 and the one he was interested in being around 16,000 GVWR, obviously he associated the three figures as being related.

Read both posts again, I do appreciate your "proof reading" but me thinks you are nitpicking my response for some unknown reason.

[Biggjb]

The spec from Ford states my 5th wheel towing capacity is 15,000 lbs. It is a 6.0 PSD with a camper kit installed. I have not noticed any problem pulling my 2009 2980RL, except through the Appalachians. I have read the posts by Art as Racerjoe suggested. I have also considered what a few others have stated. It is fine to upgrade to a F-350 capacity but when all is said and done I am still left with a 2005 truck. I am not sure the cost of the upgrade but I will research and go to local Ford to determine the real capacity of my F-250 as well as what it would cost to upgrade.

[Art-n-Marge]

Hi Biggjb. You're gonna need a new truck and probably a dually if you plan to tow a trailer with a 16,000 GTWR. There's a lot more to this than specs. There's reality and you have to look at all numbers. If you are overweight at any number you are out of spec and sometimes a spec number can't be reached. I'll explain.

Even if you do the mods that I did on my truck, you won't be able to upgrade your 2005 to tow over the 15,000 lb fiver rating. First of all, you can only tow 15,000 lbs if your truck is carrying NOTHING but you and a stock tank of gas AND weighs less than 8,000 lbs (your lariat has a lot of additional options and their weight). I upgraded my truck but after that carrying nothing else but the hitch the truck itself weighs about 8,200 lbs which means I can ONLY tow a fiver up to 14,800 lbs (as long as the pin weight is maintained). The CGVWR is 23,000 for my truck (F-250 or F-350) and 23,000 minus the 8,200 truck is 14,800. That spec assumes the truck is gutted so that it weighs 8,000 lbs with the driver and fuel when towing something 15,000lbs. My '06 fiver tow spec was 15,200. Forget about 16,000 lbs on that truck, it's not gonna happen.

The worse thing about the F-250 compared to an F-350 is the tow ratings are typically equal (bumper tow, fifth wheel tow), but the rear end cannot carry as much weight and therefore the same is also true of the overall truck. The F-350 has more payload capacity while towing (i.e. it can carry more pin or tongue weight and gear). I am only talking about SRW trucks and Fords of 2006. Your truck may vary, but I think the 2005 may not get the same ratings as an '06 because in '06 the brakes were upgraded increasing the ratings over the prior year and I don't know what else was upgraded either.

I will restate that what I solved is my overweight problem for MY configuration ('06 F-250, 4x4, Long Bed, Crew Cab, "Lariat package", 3.73 diff, SRW, & 18" wheels and tires) and compared to an F-350 with the same configuration, to be able to tow up to 14,500 lb fifth wheel and it's potential pin weight (15% to 25%), or 12,500 lbs on the bumper and its tongue weight (10% to 15%). Any more than that and I need a new truck.

Biggjb. I bought the parts I needed from Ford (to satisfy possible recertification requirements) and they were a hair over $500. I did all the labor myself but I believe it would have cost $300 to $500 (California is pricey). There was only a $700 price difference on the lot between the F-250 & F-350. But when the specs for towing were the same, I picked the cheaper truck also because with timing, rebates and offers the F-250 was another $3,000. So much of my saving went back into the rear end. I would NOT want to go through this again. Just get the bigger truck if you want to tow bigger trailers and avoid the surprises.

I wish I could enjoy the popcorn with y'all, but I'm not a big fan of the stuff. I will bring chocolate bars! Do you guys like chocolate bars? Rich, I hope you have extra chairs (unless they're too heavy to carry in your rig).

[8.1al]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

No Charlie he did not say that, however someone not familiar with the Jargon might assume that if told by the Ford dealer he could haul a 5th wheel weighing 15,000 lbs he might think that was all the information he needed. That simply is not the correct way to assess the capacity of his vehicle. I am sure you are well aware of this, and if you read my post throughout you will see that I referred to both in my post. The OP referenced the GVWR of his current RV as being 14,400 and the one he was interested in being around 16,000 GVWR, obviously he associated the three figures as being related.

Read both posts again, I do appreciate your "proof reading" but me thinks you are nitpicking my response for some unknown reason.

I don't need to read his posts, I know what he said. I just thought maybe you misunderstood what he said. If you think I am nitpicking than so be it

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by Biggjb

...Does anyone have any advice. Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Sure do, get the dually.

[Irlpguy]

Biggjb, perhaps the best advise was given in the shortest form by Tlightning and that was to get the dually.

Adding to that I would "not" even consider upgrading your 2005. If you stick with a Ford then buy one with the greatest GVWR that you can find. In order to get the highest GVWR you will likely have to go to a dually, long box truck.

Example: My son in laws 2012 Dodge 3500 SB, SRW has a GVWR of 10,100 while my 2012 Dodge 3500 LB, DRW has a GVWR of 12,300. He would be overweight pulling my 3402RL and I am not. These trucks have exactly the same equipment on them other than the DRW and LB vs SB.

Just for curiosity sake go and see what the GVWR of your current 2005 F250 is, I think that is all you will need to know to make the correct decision.

Do not be confused with all the references to towing capacity, GCVWR and other numbers mentioned here and by the dealers. If you do not exceed the GVWR posted on the door of "the" truck with the extra pin weight of a heavier trailer, then no other weights are likely to be exceeded with respect to the truck.

There are some dandy F350's GMC and Dodge trucks out there that are capable of handling the larger RV, take your pick.

[richfaa]

I really do enjoy these discussions as many folks learn a lot from them. Biggjb. If you can pull it off I would really get a one ton truck. It does not have to be a real new one and I would not get a Ford as they are far heavier than the other two brands and decreases what you can tow.. yes I have a Ford but living here in Ford country and being able to take advantage of the Ford family plans make for a huge savings in $$$$.


BTW I do like Cadbury chocolate and since I got weighed the first time by RVSEF we are super weight conscious. I was 1000lbs over weight and nearly had a heart attack when I saw the numbers. My rule now is ..if we put 10 lbs in the camper we take 10 lbs out. I was sure we were not heavy. Of course that was my early build 06 3400 with 6k axles and the GVWR was under 14K.We drove over to Mr Ryde and had the suspension cut off and the IS system installed which was rated at 8k. Did not change the sticker but made me feel much better. Next time we were weighed at the service center Darrell looked at my weight, looked at the VIN on the camper and shook his finger at me. But Darrell look under the camper. Makes no difference said he your vin is the legal number.

[helmick]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

No Charlie he did not say that, however someone not familiar with the Jargon might assume that if told by the Ford dealer he could haul a 5th wheel weighing 15,000 lbs he might think that was all the information he needed. That simply is not the correct way to assess the capacity of his vehicle. I am sure you are well aware of this, and if you read my post throughout you will see that I referred to both in my post. The OP referenced the GVWR of his current RV as being 14,400 and the one he was interested in being around 16,000 GVWR, obviously he associated the three figures as being related.

Read both posts again, I do appreciate your "proof reading" but me thinks you are nitpicking my response for some unknown reason.


I think you should read the post before you tell Charlie he is wrong.
Some times your responses need nitpicking.

[Irlpguy]

Helmick I think Charlie is big enough to take care of himself but thanks for your intervention. Perhaps you should also re-read my post since I did not suggest Charlie was wrong in any way, I was agreeing with him that the OP did not say his GVWR was 15,000.

You obviously misunderstood the meaning of "No Charlie he did not say that". So rather than jumping on me suggesting my responses need nitpicking, you could perhaps offer some advise to the OP that would be helpful to him.

Thank you Charlie for your comments, I really did not misunderstand the OP and felt that was obvious when I mentioned both GVWR and towing capacity in my post.

[dieselguy]

"Yawn" ... surely someone will appologise to Biggjb after all this smoke clears from the battlefield.

[helmick]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Helmick I think Charlie is big enough to take care of himself but thanks for your intervention. Perhaps you should also re-read my post since I did not suggest Charlie was wrong in any way, I was agreeing with him that the OP did not say his GVWR was 15,000.

You obviously misunderstood the meaning of "No Charlie he did not say that". So rather than jumping on me suggesting my responses need nitpicking, you could perhaps offer some advise to the OP that would be helpful to him.

Thank you Charlie for your comments, I really did not misunderstand the OP and felt that was obvious when I mentioned both GVWR and towing capacity in my post.

Glad my post got you to thank Charlie.
Lets get back to the subject.

[racerjoe]

Thanks for the popcorn idea. It was worth it...