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07-06-2011, 05:49 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Goldsboro
Posts: 288
M.O.C. #9143
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Help! - One more flush line check valve question
Keystone was very helpful 2 weeks ago in helping me locate my black tank flush line check valve (behind the shower)and was even nice enough to tell me they would give me matching panel to cover the large hole I had to cut in my cupboard for access, and a new check valve.
Since then, I have made at least 6 phone calls and left multiple messages that got no response. The past 2 days I finally talked to two different service techs and had to repeat the whole story, my VIN and what I needed to both reps (who said they "started a file"). So after talking to a total of 3 different people, my status is that I have a large hole in my cupboard, no valve in hand, and two unconnected 1/2" water lines....and I am leaving for Myrtle Beach on Saturday. Thanks a lot!
Oh - and I checked the local Forest River dealer who said they don't put check vavlves on their rigs becuase the "icky stuff" can't travel back up that line unless the black tank was pressurized. I called the nearest Keystone dealer and they had no idea what I was asking for.
So the question is - can I just reconnect these 2 water lines together? Do I really need a check valve? It seems it is a dedicated line for the flush, so who cares even if it did back flow, which would be amazing physics? Or, can I leave the lines unconnected for this trip and just not use the flush line? Then hope for Keystone to come through?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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07-06-2011, 06:47 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 749
M.O.C. #2165
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That valve is more than a check valve, it is an antisiphon valve, and it operates according to amazing physical laws. If it weren't there, you could easily end up with the black tank contents running back out the hose onto the ground, or, potentially, back into the water system. That's why there is "usually" an antisiphon adapter on the water supply. This is a code item and is especially important on sewer lines.
Unlike the antisiphon valve for sprinklers, it has two spring loaded valves, one of which keeps the water from leaking from the valve when you first turn it on.
You could temporarily use a 1/4 turn valve, but I would definitely replace it. I suspect that all flush systems have an antisiphon valve.
Bob
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07-06-2011, 07:06 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winfield
Posts: 7,327
M.O.C. #6846
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As Bob stated, you really need the anti-siphon valve, but with some precautions you could do without it until you can replace it. There have been others on the forum who simply bypassed the valve, but I believe it should be replaced as soon as possible. There is nothing wrong with plugging the ends of the tubing to prevent odors from entering the rig and just not using the black tank flush. In my opinion, I also see nothing wrong with temporarily hooking the lines together and following the recommended procedure for tank flushing, namely leaving the waste valve completely open when flushing which would eliminate any possibility of back flow. The Forest River dealer is wrong, the tank does not have to be pressurized, but rather the level of the tank would have to be above or close to the sprayer head to allow for siphoning to occur. The siphoning occurs when you turn off the water supply and the suction of the water pressure from the system pulls back on the hose. If you elect to go ahead and temporarily connect the lines together and use the tank flush, I will strongly recommend that you turn off the water at the hose bib and disconnect the hose from the bib first, then unhook from the rig. Before activating the flush, be sure to completely empty your tank as well. I believe if you follow these steps you will eliminate any possibility of back flow and still be able to flush your tanks. The other alternative is to do the flushing the old way, dump gallons of water down the toilet to flush the tank and don't use the tank flusher until the valve is replaced. As always, the above is merely my opinion, and the choice of what to do is solely yours.
Bingo
__________________
Bingo and Cathy - Our adventures begin in the hills of WV. We are blessed by our 2014 3850FL Big Sky (previous 2011 3750FL and 2007 3400RL) that we pull with a 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic DRW CC dually.
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07-06-2011, 11:04 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bangor
Posts: 770
M.O.C. #8816
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the valve in question on my unit is under the sink. I found it because it started leaking whenever I tried to use the black tank flush. Went to the dealer, they didn't have any in stock. It listed for around 25 bucks. So I asked, what else can I do now? It was funny, the sales guy kind of looked around and said follow me. We went to the bins with all the brass fittings and he handed me a brass one way valve. He said I'm not supposed to do this because it 1/2 the price of the other part. He said this will work just fine and not break.
kevin
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07-06-2011, 03:09 PM
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#5
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Goldsboro
Posts: 288
M.O.C. #9143
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Thanks for the inputs everyone. Keystone still did not return 3 calls I made today. I am quickly running out of patience with them. Swanny - I may try the fitting or else do a temporary cap like Bingo suggested. I really don't have time for a Lowes run right now, but it looks like I have no choice. Hopefully none of our canned goods in the cupboard fall throught the gaping hole in the back wall!
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07-07-2011, 01:57 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I just took it out and bypassed it on ours. The idea is to keep the black tank contents from backing up into your water hose when you're using it to flush.
First of all, I wouldn't use the drinking water hose for that anyhow. Second, the tank is empty when I'm flushing it so there's nothing to back up into the line. Third, as that one dealer said, with no pressure in there how's it going to back up?
I do have a new valve here and I suppose someday I'll get the itch to install it. It's been a couple of years now and we've had no problems with the bypass approach.
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07-07-2011, 07:13 PM
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#7
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Valencia
Posts: 207
M.O.C. #6835
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Yesterday, I took my new 3455 to the dealer to fix 3 problems one of which was the black tank flush which did not work. The dealer found the plastic check valve as faulty. It was located by removing the shower panel with the water valves on it and reaching up finding the check valve (which apparently has to be mounted a certain vertical distance above the tank to develop the vacumn required to work properly...so I'm told). The tech recommended replacing it with a much more substantial brass unit which I was happy to do ($22). I would find a warrentee location that Keystone will support for labor and get a substantial brass check valve (from SOB or model)to replace your plastic broken one. It's not expensive and will hopefully remove any future problems. At least I am hoping it will for me. Good luck
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07-08-2011, 09:34 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Bob (Firetrucker), how could black water get from the tank through the flush valve to the fresh water system? Unless one connects them externally there is no connection to the fresh water lines anywhere. Am I missing something? Thanks.
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07-10-2011, 05:09 AM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auburn
Posts: 121
M.O.C. #7533
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If you keep your privacy door to your bedroom in the open position, it will cover the holes and nothing should fall through the back wall of the pantry.
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07-10-2011, 11:07 AM
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#10
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Topeka
Posts: 61
M.O.C. #11126
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Hey Butch, hope it all goes well. I gave in here and decided to work with our Camping World dealer on my clogged flush valve via warranty. I had to pay $114 service call for mileage because we are on a seasonal site and really don't want to tow it in. The tech kid wrote up a warranty request with Keystone based on my word. He didn't even check it. He did take off the shower faucet and could reach it but of course didn't have parts. Keystone has agreed to a 3 hour repair to cut in the panel and replace the valve this coming Tuesday the 12th so we will know more and I'll update everyone then.
What a pain in the $#%^!!!!
Alan
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07-14-2011, 06:25 PM
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#11
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Topeka
Posts: 61
M.O.C. #11126
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just an update. Keystone covered the flush valve under warranty. Hole was cut in the pantry cupboard and the valve replaced. Working now, and at least its accessible now.
Alan
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07-15-2011, 03:00 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Alan, sorry you had to go through such an ordeal. Should have been a simple matter.
Makes one fearful if you had a serious problem what you would have had to do.
Glad it is all behind you, enjoy your travels and be safe out there.
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07-17-2011, 10:56 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by kampk
just an update. Keystone covered the flush valve under warranty. Hole was cut in the pantry cupboard and the valve replaced. Working now, and at least its accessible now.
Alan
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Alan, I'm glad to hear it's all resolved and now you have access. Our 2007 3400RL came from the factory with an access hole in the back panel of the pantry. It was covered with some sort of velcro'd on panel. The problem is it was in the wrong place. I had to enlarge the hole. And then there was a chance of dropping tools down that opening where I could not retrieve them. So I tied rope to the tools and tied the other end to my belt loop. Just in case!
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07-18-2011, 01:06 AM
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#14
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Goldsboro
Posts: 288
M.O.C. #9143
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Steve - good point on the tools. I wonder why Keystone stopped putting the access panel? Though it sounds like their techs couldn't get it right anyway, so maybe they just gave up!
Update: Keystone sent me the matching panel - two 4' x 4' panels! They said that is how they come from the factory. I now have enough to cover all future access panels I may have to cut! Keystone would not replace the valve but did give me the part number which I was able to use to order a new valve for $50. Should be here this week. I'll replace it, cut a panel to cover the door, then hope no other bizarre design flaws strike in the near future.
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