Creeping Slide & Lippert Warranty

[CORattler]

OK... I understand that our RV's aren't perfect... none are and frankly I don't expect them to be.

My RV is a 2010 Keystone Montana 3150RL purchased new on June 16, 2010.
I haven't been able to use my RV as much as I like. The slides have been cycled maybe 25 times.

Since 2012, my bedroom slide has been creeping out while in storage after having been verified as completely closed. I decided to get it fixed before it got worse. I went to the web to see how long the warranty was for the hydraulic pistons that extend and retract the slides. Interestingly enough, no matter how hard or how long I searched, I could find NO LIPPERT WARRANTY INFORMATION, it was like the web had been erased of all Lippert warranty information.

I decided to call Lippert customer service to get the info and unravel the mystery. I spoke with Nicole today at LCI and was told that parts had a 90 DAY warranty and installed equipment had a 1 year warranty (this includes LEVEL UP BTW). I asked her about the lack of warranty info on the web and her explanation was that the Amish were working on the web page... Really???

The RV now sits at Camping World and after $1100 worth of diagnostic time, I'm told it needs 2 new hydraulic cylinders as they are replaced as a unit even if only a single part is defective (one for the bedroom slide and one for the big dining room/living room slide). The total bill for this will be $1700!

My personal opinion is:
1. Lippert's warranty is severely lacking. Their lack of warranty information of any kind on their web page and the rest of the internet is at best suspicious. One could draw many different conclusions.
2. Hydraulic pistons should last more than 25 cycles. A 1 year warranty infers that the company has little pride or confidence in it's product (I have discovered the warranty period for the hydraulic pistons used to be 5 years).

I have been seriously contemplating having the Lippert Level Up system installed on my RV at a cost of $4500. I am rethinking that purchase. I am also considering contacting Trailer Life should I discover that my RV documentation contains statements that the hydraulic pistons warranty is 5 years.

The purpose of my post is to INFORM others as to what Lippert's warranty duration is so that you can make an educated choice when considering the purchase of any Lippert product.

[HOOK]

Just a suggestion, in the little hydraulic Ser door, there is a valve for each slide. Each valve must be turned completely to the stop, or the end of travel, or you could have slide creep.

[pineranch]

Jay,
Perhaps you can "call a time out" and re-evaluate the problem. My BS METER went off when THEY want to replace 2 cylinders. I know you never replaced both ramp actuators when one leaked, right!
Mike

[Irlpguy]

CORattler I don't think the one year warranty period is out of line in today's RV world. I have had no dealings with Lippert but have heard good reports about them and their response to customers problems, for that reason I would ask to talk to their customer service department again and inform them of what KW are telling you. Lippert make these units they will know a lot more than the mechanics at CW.

The fact that you have not used your hydraulic system much might be the biggest problem, seals dry up and harden, they do this more quickly when they are not being used/exercised. This happens to any seal in the system and includes O rings.

What really amazes me about your post is what KW have charged for diagnostic time. I don't know what they charge per hour but with a few plugs and fittings and a high pressure gauge they should have been able to isolate the problem in a couple of hours at most, provided they knew what they were doing. It is not right the customer has to pay for their education.

I hope you will find Lippert to be as others have claimed and get some assistance from them.

[DQDick]

I agree with Edward, the Camping World end of this sounds as hinky as Amish working on a website. See what Lippert says about what needs to be fixed and how and then you might have a case for $1100 and excessive repair bills reporting CW to Trailer Life. That would be interesting to see how it comes out. Just curious, what CW is this?

[CORattler]

Dick - CW is in Fountain, Colorado. Trailer Life is part of my plan
Irlpguy - You are correct about dry seals. I'm here to tell you that I regularly use a clean lint free cloth with hydraulic fluid to keep the shiny part of the cylinders moist. I was an aircraft mechanic in the AF and I know the importance of cleaning & lubing a strut. I too felt their diagnostic time was excessive.
Mike - Your logic is right on. Sucks to be at the mercy of others to troubleshoot. The 2 cylinders are already on order (so CW says). Maybe I need to verify this with Lippert.

Lippert has already popped smoke up my ...
My trust is waning big time.

[Phil P]

Hi

For the first time I can say my hydraulic system has performed without problems. We do use the trailer a lot and that may be one of the reasons I am not having problems. Hydraulic systems do not like to sit unused for extended periods of time.

CORattler

Hydraulic fluid is not the proper product to use on the shiny part of your cylinders. Hydraulic fluid dries to a sticky substance that collects dust and grit that will damage the seals. Use multi weight engine oil the cheapest you can purchase from one of the discount stores. This will not dry out but will eventfully “drain” off so you need to do this a couple of time a year.

I haven’t looked at these cylinders very close but in general it isn’t expensive to re-seal a hydraulic cylinder. The total parts cost is around $15 for even the larger cylinders, there is some special tooling required but nothing a good job shop welder can’t fabricate.

If you have some cylinders replaced please keep the old ones. I would pay the shipping on one so I can see about re-sealing it.

Last but not least. I have never had to shut off the valves in the hydraulic system for any reason other than to select the slide I want to move when loading the trailer for a trip. We travel with all valves open and don’t experience any slide creep. Shutting them off for storage would determine if the leakage is in just the slide that is creeping out or in the pump system / hoses to or from the pump.

Phil P

[HOOK]

quote:Originally posted by Phil P

Hi

For the first time I can say my hydraulic system has performed without problems. We do use the trailer a lot and that may be one of the reasons I am not having problems. Hydraulic systems do not like to sit unused for extended periods of time.

CORattler

Hydraulic fluid is not the proper product to use on the shiny part of your cylinders. Hydraulic fluid dries to a sticky substance that collects dust and grit that will damage the seals. Use multi weight engine oil the cheapest you can purchase from one of the discount stores. This will not dry out but will eventfully “drain” off so you need to do this a couple of time a year.

I haven’t looked at these cylinders very close but in general it isn’t expensive to re-seal a hydraulic cylinder. The total parts cost is around $15 for even the larger cylinders, there is some special tooling required but nothing a good job shop welder can’t fabricate.

If you have some cylinders replaced please keep the old ones. I would pay the shipping on one so I can see about re-sealing it.

Last but not least. I have never had to shut off the valves in the hydraulic system for any reason other than to select the slide I want to move when loading the trailer for a trip. We travel with all valves open and don’t experience any slide creep. Shutting them off for storage would determine if the leakage is in just the slide that is creeping out or in the pump system / hoses to or from the pump.

Phil P

Phil, the reason I suggest checking the valves is because when I was last in Goshen, I asked about one of my slides creeping. The tech went straight to the valves and turned one only a small amount to full open. All others seemed good. No more creep. Although mine was creeping during travel. This happened shortly after I met you and Sally in Marion. I agree that a cylinder rebuild is not expensive. I'd also suggest looking into having a local hyd repair facility repack the cylinder. However, I had great results with Lippert the only time I needed them.

[1Happycamper]

Hi Jay

I have had trouble with my slides creeping out for 4 years. At the 2011 Fall Rally, Montana had Lippert come to the service center and changed my hydraulic pump and installed selector valves which the Mountaineers did not have at that time.This helped for a while. Slowly the slides started to creep out even with the valves closed and also while driving. Last year at the 2013 Fall Rally, Montana did a pressure test on the system and found that the kitchen slide did not hold pressure and changed only that cylinder.

Lippert stopped the 5 year warranty on the hydraulic system some time during the 2008 production year. I had the 5 year warranty, but if it wasn't for the Fall Rally and the Montana service center I would not be a Happy Camper.

[mhs4771]

Jay, we too had an issue with the bedroom slide creeping out at times on our 2955RL, but I also noticed at times it would wet with hydraulic/ATF fluid inside the slide selector compartment. Tightened the jamnuts on both valves and not problem after that and no more slide creep.

[Phil P]

Hello

It’s good to hear from you.

I only wanted to point out that there isn’t a need to close the valves for travel. When the system is function properly the slides don’t creep. However closing the valves will isolate the slides from each other and tell you with one or two are leaking in the cylinder / hose system. If they don’t creep when the valves are closed then there is a leak in the pump / hose system.

This is one of the few systems I haven’t had any problems with. The frame flex problem hasn’t appeared yet either and we have now close to 70,000 miles on the trailer. We did fail a spring hanger then a year later the spring on the same axel failed.

Of the three manufactures that warranty their trailers for 5 years only one of them uses any Lippert products and that one only uses the hydraulic slide mechanism.

Phil P

[rohrmann]

Whatever works for someone to maintain the hydraulic rams on their rigs is up to them, but Lippert recommends the following from their manual-

5. If jacks are down for extended periods, it is recommended to spray exposed leveling jack rods with a silicone lubricant every seven days for protection. If your coach is located in a salty environment, it is recommended to spray the rods every 2 to 3 days.

I spray mine with silicone occasionally when we are setup for long periods and have had no problems.

[Irlpguy]

quote:Originally posted by rohrmann

Whatever works for someone to maintain the hydraulic rams on their rigs is up to them, but Lippert recommends the following from their manual-

5. If jacks are down for extended periods, it is recommended to spray exposed leveling jack rods with a silicone lubricant every seven days for protection. If your coach is located in a salty environment, it is recommended to spray the rods every 2 to 3 days.

I spray mine with silicone occasionally when we are setup for long periods and have had no problems.

The reason Lippert make this recommendation is because the rams on the landing gear and the level up are Aluminum rods. This is intended to prevent pitting of the rods themselves.

I have never found any reference to spraying anything on the exposed rod on a slide cylinder, they are not made of Aluminum, however over very long periods of exposure could pit and rust so that when retracted they might damage the seals or wipers.

Sideways pressure on an extended rod in the same position over a period of time could cause the seals to change shape and possibly leak. These are not expensive hydraulic cylinders and I am sure are built with a minimum of seals and O rings on the piston. The seal and wiper at the end of the cylinder will also be cheap and likely made in China.

I would certainly want to know how CW determined that not one but 2 cylinders required replacing, this is certainly possible, but it only takes a leak in one cylinder to affect the others.

I consider myself lucky to have had no problem with my hydraulics so far (touch wood). It really is a pretty simple system, other than the pressures involved every part can be compared to the same thing being done with air rather than hydraulic fluid (Auto Trans fluid).

[rohrmann]

I've had no real problems with our system either, except for a bulge in the outer cover of the orange hose that goes from the pump to the manifold. Cost all of $20 to have a new 6,000psi hydraulic hose made and maybe 10 minutes to change it out. We had experienced the popping and shortly after Lippert put out the stiction fluid fix, I installed a quart of the CAT fluid and that cured the popping. Feel bad that some are experiencing trouble with their systems, and it's too bad that some of the technicians out there are not well versed in hydraulic systems. I'm fortunate to have a friend who works on farm equipment who assisted me. Maybe it would be a better choice to have a real hydraulic tech check some of the problems members have been having.

[CORattler]

I will be keeping the original hydraulic rams.
Hook - You are correct that hydraulic fluid will dry out after some time has passed. I wipe mine before each trip (my trips are short = not retired (yet)) and then also prior to closing the slides. I don't believe they have a chance to dry out or accumulate grit/dirt/residue. I will look up Lippert's recommendation for the type of lubricant to use and switch to that if indicated. I do not believe what happened is seal related but rather a fitting that attaches between the ram and the supply hose. I'll know more when I talk with the tech that did the troubleshooting and the replacement as well as examine the removed rams for myself.

All - Good input and ideas. Keep 'em coming!

[MIMF]

Hey Jay, did anyone check the fluid level in the tank on the pump? You might have a situation where the fluid level in the tank is low enough that it sucks air just as the slide rooms are fully extended. And, when you do operate the system are you seeing bubbles in the fluid inside that tank? With the rooms fully closed (retracted), is the fluid level in the reservoir with in about 1/2 inch from the yellow fill cap?

Just asking.

[Overlord]

I had creeping slides on my '09, couldn't figure why. Until one day while getting the rig ready to haul, I noticed hydraulic fluid pooling in the street-side landing gear pad. Thought to myself, "That's weird, the landing gear are electric powered!" Then it occurred to me that the hydraulic manifold for the slides is pretty much right above that.

Turns out that opening and closing the valve knobs for a couple of years had loosened a couple of the needle valves where they connect to the manifold, most likely because they had not been installed tight enough. I wound up unscrewing the manifold from its mounts so I could get to it more easily, and tightened all of the valves and hydraulic hose connections on the manifold, several more of the hose connections were not what I would consider to be tight enough. I also had a very small leak due to a loose fitting where the hose hooked up to the ram under the bed, but I found that one within a couple of weeks after taking delivery of the unit while I was investigating a mod to increase the under-bed storage.

No more problems after doing this. Been about three years since the fix, and everything stays where it should.

They throw these things together very quickly, and lots of things are not installed in what I would consider in the manner of a "Craftsman".

Another thing that I discovered while the rig was only a couple of weeks old, was that the terminal connections for the electrical wiring in the breaker and fuse panels were not as tight as I thought they should have been. ....that reminds me, I should check those wire terminals again, it has been a long time since I last did that.

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by Overlord


They throw these things together very quickly, and lots of things are not installed in what I would consider in the manner of a "Craftsman".

= no quality control.

Phil P

[richfaa]

We use the stuff recommended by Lippert .We do not use it often but we have had no problems. We tend to believe that the manufacturers of a product know what is best for their product and myself being no expert believe it.

[dieselguy]

Just sayin here ... do what sets your mind at ease as occasionally wiping down your cylinder rods is a good idea ... but .... It really isn't necessary to wipe em down each time as most all cylinders have a "wiper seal" on the rod end as well as the main seal that acually does the sealing of the fluid. Sometimes the wiper is incorporated into the main seal. It's function is to wipe off most contaminates during the stroking of the cylinder. Yeah I know what some of the ex-flyboys are thinking, but we're not talking Skydrol here nor failure at altitude.