Pin weight VS. Pin height

[Fordzilla]

I recently purchased a new F350 Dually and have noticed it sags quite a bit while hooked up.(4-5") I took it to the RV dealer who installed the hitch and it is 2" in front of the axle and then to the ford dealer to ask if I had bad rear springs. They said they are OK and suggested I look at air bags. My previous truck was a 1 ton SRW and sat level once hooked up and only seemed to sag about 2 inches when hooked up. I know the dually sits a little lower than the SRW because of the 4" vs. 2" rear blocks. But my big question is while I was switching trucks I lowered the hitch in the truck an inch and am wondering if that would cause more pin weight to be shifted forward causing the sagging on this truck? Didn't think I would have to add air bags to a DRW truck. But I am getting a few people who think I have my brights on while driving at night.

[richfaa]

I've got the same truck you have except for the diesel and pretty much the same camper execpt for the pin weight.Yours is quite a bit heaver. My Ford sags @2 inches when the 3400 is on it..in fact it does not touch the top helper springs. If your hitch is properly installed then I would guess it is the extra pin weight. We use the 16K draw tite hitch and the hitch is in the second set of adjuster holes from the bottom

[Glenn and Lorraine]

I always had the understanding that the pin was to be no more than 1/2" to 1 inch in front of the axle.

[bardave]

good question...havent purchased truck or 5vr yet... how far dows the pin go in front of the axel????

[Fordzilla]

I was told they shoot for 2" in front on long box p-up's. I didn't measure it myself just what the RV dealer told me. The Ford dealership thinks the trailer could be past the balance stage where I lowered the nose by lowering the hitch and applied 400-500 more pounds to the pin by lowering the height of the hitch. It kind of made me think, but thought I would ask the experts here before lowering the pin box on the trailer. I didn't really want the trailer up any higher than necessary, but if it means the truck rides a little closer to level I will make the change.

[drhowell]

I suppose there might be a slight shift in pin weight with a change in height but you shouldn't notice it. How would that work if you are climbing or descending hills? You certainly get more push downhill and pull uphill.

Anyway, I have never measured the difference on a scale. Might be an interesting experiment to unhook on a scale and raise and lower the gear to see how much the weight changes, or if it changes.

It sure seems like you have more sag than normal. I would suspect the suspension. Is it possible someone wanted a softer ride and changed something?

[Bob Pasternak]

Bardave: On a long bed, the pin should be 1/2 the width of the trailer plus 4" from the back of the cab. That's puts it 52" from the cab. On my Dodge, it puts the center of the 5th wheel directly over the axle.
Mr. Reigle can probably give you the measurements for a short-bed slider.

[Fordzilla]

Thanks Bob, I will try and get out and measure mine this weekend. Right now I have the hitch out because I needed to haul some other stuff. But I may sit it in there just to see how close I am to those measurements. I bought the truck new off the lot and according to the dealer Ford only puts one set of rear springs in all the DRW's. I was hoping maybe I got a softer set and would be able to trade them out for a heavier set. But not the case. Air bags are about $600 with the tank and gauges. Then to see how hard they are to install by yourself in the driveway???

[panhandlevern]

You might try the use of Timbrens, I put them on my F250 to control the sag with the 5th wheel, they work fine.

Vernon Keepers
F250 PSD 7.3 Auto 4x4 SB
00 3280 Montana

[Wrenchtraveller]

Click on my pic to see how level my unit sits. All stock , 2600 pounds on the pin.
It is a 4x4 so empty sits rear end high. Montana levels it out and makes it ride much nicer.

This is a SRW 11200 GVWR and the overloads just touch on one end with the Fiver on.

[Fordzilla]

Wrenchtravller, that is what my last truck looked like when hooked up to the same trailer. I waas an '04 SRW and seemed to hold it up better than the '06 DRW does.

[mobrownies]

First, the height of the pin will have very little impact on the pin weight unless it shifts the center of gravity of liquids in tanks. It will impact how well the rig runs down the road.

Second, I suggest following the truck mfr. recommendation on where to locate the hitch. It has nothing to do with trailer dimensions and everything to do with weight distribution between the front and rear axles. It will vary from truck to truck, but normally is just in front of the rear axle so that very little pin weight is transferred to the front axle.

[rickfox]

Also,

One of the reasons that towing a 5vr is more stable than a regular trailer is that there is zero "wag" when the hitch is directly over the rear axles - a rotation of the TV about the rear axles results in zero change to the rear of the trailer. When towing at the rear bumper, a rotation about the rear axles causes considerable change in rotation (negative wag) at the rear of the trailer, which results in fishtailing. Placing the hitch point in front of the rear axles can result in positve wag, the rear of the actually trys to go the direction of the TV - however, more weight is distributed to the front of the TV - which could be a bad thing. There is probably a best place for most TV configurations. As others have said, best to find a knowledgeable person at the TV manufacturer for good info.

Rick & Wanda
2003 2500HD Crew Cab
Duramax with Allison Trans.
Firestone Airbags
Glide-Ride Pinbox - It's Great!
2006 3400RL - We Love The Trailer!

Montana Customer Service?

[sreigle]

Glenn, my understanding is 2 inches for a long bed and 1 inch to directly over the axle for a shortbed.

Fordzilla, it sounds to me like something is not right on yours. Yours has the overload leaf? My 2003 F350 SRW, not even a dualie, normally sat high in the rear, unladen. With the 3300 lbs of pinweight from this Montana sitting on it it rode level. I used a 3 foot level to check and was on a level site at the time. I did not have airbags or any spring helpers on it. I would think yours would do equally as well.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

[Fordzilla]

That's what I was thinking too. Last truck was a SRW and sat high unhooked but level when hooked up. This one sits closer to level when MT and sags a bit too much loaded up. I looked at a couple of different air bag set ups today and they are over $1,200 installed with a dual control to level and pump them up from inside the cab. I may look into new springs before going that route.

Ron & Melinda Rosewall
Marcus, Iowa
'06 F350 DRW King Ranch 4x4, diesel pulling machine.
'04 3685FL, Fireplace, Cent Vac, Fantastic Fan, Safety Glass, 2nd A/C, Slide out awnings.

http://www.picturetrail.com/fordzilla

[Wrenchtraveller]

I think the biggest reason your duallie squats is because it does not have the 4" spacer blocks that the SRW F350 4X4s come with. Your duallie sits fairly level empty where a SRW sits rear end high empty. The pin weight of a Monty will cause your suspension to drop a little and this levels out a SRW and makes your duallie squat down. I had to put Air bags on my 2000 F350 SRW and the Firestone ride rites only cost me 500 Canadian and I installed them myself. I found the manual filled bags worked fine. My 05 SRW 4x4 sits level even with my auxilary 50 gal gas tank and tool box which brings my loaded weight up to about 3300 pounds, about what some of the larger Monties are putting on the pin. I installed my hitch following the instructions that came with it and this put the pin centre about 2 inches in front of my axle centre.
This set up put less than 100 pounds on my front end and makes my truck handle and ride much better with the Monty on tow. Empty my truck has a fairly harsh ride. Take care, and good luck
getting that big duallie levelled out. IMO it is the right truck for your big Montana.

Don & Donna
Vancouver Island
2005 Ford F350 V10 Lariat CC 4x4 LB SRW 11200 GVWR
2006 Montana 2955RL
click on the little pic to see a big pic

[sheiba1]

If the hitch is 2" in front of the axle it should shift more weight forward, with what you are describing a set of air bags will help level out your truck. Here is a location I found on the Internet that might help

http://www.suspensionconnection.com/...google_airbags

If you can operate a few wrenches for a couple of hours they are not hard to install, I installed mine (just rear) and onboard compressor with gauge in dash in 2hrs cost $500.00. I really don’t think you need front air bags.

Happy camping
Rich and Marita

[tcorbitt]

Wow,

4-5" Sag? This does not sound right. Do you have something other than the Monty to put in the bed and achieve the same sag that you could weight? I think you should try to verify the truck is right without consideration of the Monty first. I would expect that kind of Sag would require 5-6K lbs in the bed regardless of where it is distributed. A 2-3K lbs king ping, regardless of over the axel or front/back 1-2 inches should not say a dually? I would suggest you have the dealer check the suspension/sag without involving the Monty in the analysis. I just cannot believe a new dually would need any help holding up the load (until maybe it's more that 5-6 years old).

Just a thought... Tim

(My 350KR, F350 SRW Short 4X4 sags 2 inches and rides level with the Monty in tow. I have had 4-5K payloads in the bed with maybe 3" sag at the most... Sag is the last thing I would expect from a dually....)

06 F350 4wd PSD Crew
06 Mountianeer 34PHT