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Old 01-06-2021, 04:33 PM   #1
kowbra
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Anderson hitch and warranty

Hi all,

For those who attended the MOC virtual rally today, you will have heard Sam Lengerich, Montana Product Manager, answer the question about the Anderson Ultimate Hitch (AUH) - does it void the frame warranty? Basically, yes.

The background on this is that based on this forum and a number of threads regarding the AUH, I reached out in the past couple of weeks to both Sam and to Lippert support.
-Sam replied that they currently had no information that Lippert would void the frame warranty.
-but Lippert replied "We advise against the use of any adapters or extensions on the king pin of the pin box. The Andersen hitch is considered an adapter. The use of one of these may cause damage to the upper deck that LCI may not be able to assist in."
So, Lippert didn't actually use the words "void the warranty", but strongly hinted at that. I sent this over to Sam last week for clarification on how this impacts the warranty, and he was on it.

Now, as of today and as per the answer that Sam gave during the MOC virtual rally, my takeaway is that the Anderson Ultimate Hitch is not recommended as it could cause issues with the frame, and that neither Montana nor Lippert would stand behind such issues as part of the frame warranty.

Anderson Hitch does have a guarantee on their website that says they will pay for any needed frame repairs. That may be enough for others to continue to use the AUH. I think for me, I am looking for alternatives for the AUH that I have used for years. I have reached out to our dealer to see if they can get a Reese GooseBox pin box as an alternative. I confirmed that the GooseBox pin box IS warranty approved by both Montana and Lippert. (and is the only "non standard / goose ball type" hitch approved)

I must say that I continue to be impressed with the responsiveness of Montana, and Sam in particular. We have had RV's for many years and many brands. This is our first Montana and the first time that I know who the product manager is, and that he personally answers any and all questions; including answering these questions last week during the annual industry shutdown. I must give full marks for that!

I hope the above is helpful to any who are using or considering using the AUH.

Brad
 
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Old 01-06-2021, 05:17 PM   #2
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This is what Lippert and Montana has seen for years. After Anderson defaced our National Park I wouldn’t believe anything he said.
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Old 01-06-2021, 05:34 PM   #3
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This is what Lippert and Montana has seen for years. After Anderson defaced our National Park I wouldn’t believe anything he said.
Lynwood
Understood and as mentioned I've decided I'm not willing to rely on the Anderson guarantee if I've voided my warranty.

But, to be clear, up until today the official position of Montana was that the AUH was ok and would not void the warranty. In fact, because I owned an AUH for years and used on other rigs, I had my dealer order a new MorRyde pin box to swap out the incompatible RotaFlex box, all because our dealer confirmed that it was ok with Montana at the time. Montana has not "for years" been saying that the hitch voided warranty.

As to Lippert and what their position was or when it changed, they are not saying. Older threads here and other forums would suggest that Lippert did at one time say the hitch was ok but since have changed.

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Old 01-06-2021, 06:12 PM   #4
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I read all your documented conversation with Mr. Lengerich, Lippert, and so on. I well accept the added forces on the frame caused by the old style goose neck extensions is a bad deal. The Anderson pin box adaptor needed to make it all work is about as close to pin to fifth wheel plate contact as you can get in any aftermarket configuration. As far as Anderson and National Parks ... well, I just choose to dwell on different subject matter. Me and a considerable number of others will more than likely continue to use the Anderson as it's just hard to beat as far as ease of use and ease of portability. I get your intent of warranty warning to others in this post, but personally I see little risk. I am not condemning your stance here. Today's industry is full of CYA fear of just that one or two instances in 10,000.
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:12 PM   #5
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I've never been a fan of the AUH and not because of the National Park thing. I was shocked to hear the comments on the Virtual Rally today as well.

I had the previous generation of the 16k Goosebox on my old trailer with electric front jacks. The jacks were slow to lift and retract. They also had limited lift range to clear the ball in off-level situations. I told myself I wouldn't get one again. Fast forward...I saw the improvements to the new generation and ended up buying the 20k version last year. The hydraulic jack speed and range solved my issues with clearing the ball. I sold my B&W Companion to cover most of the costs, but now my bed consist of a gooseball and chain loops when unhooked. I ended up with a couple extra inches between the tailgate and front compartment as the Goosebox is a bit longer than the Mor-ryde pin box with the B&W Companion set to the rear setting. The ride quality is about the same or better once you get the pressure set in the air bag correctly.
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:05 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dieselguy View Post
I read all your documented conversation with Mr. Lengerich, Lippert, and so on. I well accept the added forces on the frame caused by the old style goose neck extensions is a bad deal. The Anderson pin box adaptor needed to make it all work is about as close to pin to fifth wheel plate contact as you can get in any aftermarket configuration. As far as Anderson and National Parks ... well, I just choose to dwell on different subject matter. Me and a considerable number of others will more than likely continue to use the Anderson as it's just hard to beat as far as ease of use and ease of portability. I get your intent of warranty warning to others in this post, but personally I see little risk. I am not condemning your stance here. Today's industry is full of CYA fear of just that one or two instances in 10,000.
Thanks dieselguy, and I totally get your points also.
I think it is an ingenious design and I have over 30,000 miles on mine with absolutely no issues, so I am a fan. It's so light weight, has no noise, no slop... many advantages that the old school hitches don't have. Many dismiss it due simply to that - it doesn't look like all the other hitches, so they say that obviously it cannot work. But it does.

And you are totally correct on why I share this; I'm only stating the official position so that others can make their own decision. And no wrong one as far as I can see; whatever each are comfortable with.

hth
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jetskier View Post
I've never been a fan of the AUH and not because of the National Park thing. I was shocked to hear the comments on the Virtual Rally today as well.

I had the previous generation of the 16k Goosebox on my old trailer with electric front jacks. The jacks were slow to lift and retract. They also had limited lift range to clear the ball in off-level situations. I told myself I wouldn't get one again. Fast forward...I saw the improvements to the new generation and ended up buying the 20k version last year. The hydraulic jack speed and range solved my issues with clearing the ball. I sold my B&W Companion to cover most of the costs, but now my bed consist of a gooseball and chain loops when unhooked. I ended up with a couple extra inches between the tailgate and front compartment as the Goosebox is a bit longer than the Mor-ryde pin box with the B&W Companion set to the rear setting. The ride quality is about the same or better once you get the pressure set in the air bag correctly.
Thanks jetskier; I appreciate the firsthand experience.
I am considering the goosebox for the reasons you've shared; I don't want to go back to the heavy traditional hitch that never seems to leave the box, and the goosebox seems to be the only alternative that Lippert approves.

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Old 01-06-2021, 07:29 PM   #8
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At the 2019 rally I was face to face with the Keystone brass and one of the engineers. I have the names but will withhold for now. Emphatically all said that the Anderson Ultimate Hitch does not void the Keystone warranty. They performed work on my coach right then and there after that statement. In addition Morryde confirmed the same point as they changed out our skid plate. I can understand the use of language in an attempt to discourage the use of the Anderson in an unofficial capacity such as the virtual gathering. However when the rubber meets the road the two lawyers I hired as part of my research before purchasing an Anderson hitch said clearly there was nothing in statute to deny me warranty coverage. Now that being said that doesn’t mean that at some point someone might choose to make it difficult for a consumer, but any lawyer worth his/her salt can ask for attorney’s fees.
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy View Post
At the 2019 rally I was face to face with the Keystone brass and one of the engineers. I have the names but will withhold for now. Emphatically all said that the Anderson Ultimate Hitch does not void the Keystone warranty. They performed work on my coach right then and there after that statement. In addition Morryde confirmed the same point as they changed out our skid plate. I can understand the use of language in an attempt to discourage the use of the Anderson in an unofficial capacity such as the virtual gathering. However when the rubber meets the road the two lawyers I hired as part of my research before purchasing an Anderson hitch said clearly there was nothing in statute to deny me warranty coverage. Now that being said that doesn’t mean that at some point someone might choose to make it difficult for a consumer, but any lawyer worth his/her salt can ask for attorney’s fees.
I'm not surprised to hear that; I do think that has been the stance of Montana for some time and literally until today.
To me, I think the recent change is triggered by Lippert and that they are backing out so Montana is having to follow. I assume that is because any frame warranty would need to be covered by Lippert and Montana does not want to be left to hang for it.

If I had an issue with an AUH after having received the word that it was approved, I would push back on having it covered even without resorting to a lawyer. Hopefully a good dealer would fight that battle for you.

In my case, we have not been able to take delivery of our new Montana (winter and border closures), so it is giving me time to consider other options.

Brad
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Old 01-06-2021, 09:43 PM   #10
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The Anderson was a great hitch for me. It’s no longer an issue for me but I hate to see all the repeated vacillating on the issue of warranty coverage. It’s just a lot of misinformation. Hmmmmmm
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Old 01-07-2021, 05:47 AM   #11
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Well Wow. I thought this was settled when at the 2019 Rally it was stated that the AUH was on the approved product list.
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:46 AM   #12
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Not mentioned but similar in design is the Pullrite hitch, which I purchased after getting confirmation it was okay from Keystone. Andersen could not handle the grade of our driveway (per Andersen) at 22% grade. Now I’m stuck. I replaced a Reese slider (just too heavy and too much real estate in the bed) with the Pullrite Superlite. Do I need to buy a third hitch?
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:58 AM   #13
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Well Wow. I thought this was settled when at the 2019 Rally it was stated that the AUH was on the approved product list.
I think it was settled back in 2019. Pay close attention to the words used this time around as quoted by the OP.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:50 AM   #14
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I'm not saying that the AUH or the PullRite are bad, but the overhang that both of those hitches use, with the fact that they are not "standard" with the adapters, were one thing that pushed me over into a PullRite 3900. Having had a PullRite slider in our old 5er, there was always that lingering concern about "what if our 5er needs to be pulled by someone else?" While not impossible, they can't just hook on and drive off. You have to take a plate off, and on the AUH and PullRite they are the same way. You have to take something off. I don't believe that to be a show stopper, but that was a deciding factor for me deciding to go with a "standard" fifth wheel hitch.

But, the issue is now the hitch in your truck weighs 100+ pounds (or significantly more), and is harder to take in and out. But, now with a standard fifth wheel hitch, Keystone, Lippert , or my dealer cannot hide behind anything they want to say is out of the ordinary if we have issues.

Everything is a trade off, and YMMV...
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Old 01-08-2021, 05:36 PM   #15
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I'm not saying that the AUH or the PullRite are bad, but the overhang that both of those hitches use, with the fact that they are not "standard" with the adapters, were one thing that pushed me over into a PullRite 3900. Having had a PullRite slider in our old 5er, there was always that lingering concern about "what if our 5er needs to be pulled by someone else?" While not impossible, they can't just hook on and drive off. You have to take a plate off, and on the AUH and PullRite they are the same way. You have to take something off. I don't believe that to be a show stopper, but that was a deciding factor for me deciding to go with a "standard" fifth wheel hitch.

But, the issue is now the hitch in your truck weighs 100+ pounds (or significantly more), and is harder to take in and out. But, now with a standard fifth wheel hitch, Keystone, Lippert , or my dealer cannot hide behind anything they want to say is out of the ordinary if we have issues.

Everything is a trade off, and YMMV...

I'd like to weigh in on the Andersen. I am sure there are others ,but I have towed with both a standard hitch, and the Andersen. Hands down the Andersen is just plain easier, lighter etc. As you say the Andersen could hardly be a show stopper because of the adapter. I can't imagine not having the tools on hand to remove the adapter ,it's not difficult at all .


I have read one report on damage to a pin box, as some know the adapter does centralize the pin weight a lot more in a smaller area ,where as a standard hitch spreads it out more across the pin box . They claimed it deflected ,and put a bend in the plate around the kingpin. What I didn't care for on the adapter is that when the two cross bolts are in ,and the 4 set screws are tightened up, I have 3/16" gap between the adapter ,and pin box. I cut a piece of 3/16 plate 14" x 14" the size of the flat surface on the kingpin area , cut a hole to go around the kingpin, now everything is pretty much flush plus the added surface for the weight of the fifth wheel .

You mentioned overhang on the Andersen ,maybe you could elaborate on that statement . I am assuming you have never towed with or owned an Andersen hitch ??

To sum it up for me ,I will never go back to a standard hitch, there isn't a thing about the Andersen that would make me change back after several years now.
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Old 01-08-2021, 06:20 PM   #16
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I'd like to weigh in on the Andersen. I am sure there are others ,but I have towed with both a standard hitch, and the Andersen. Hands down the Andersen is just plain easier, lighter etc. As you say the Andersen could hardly be a show stopper because of the adapter. I can't imagine not having the tools on hand to remove the adapter ,it's not difficult at all .


I have read one report on damage to a pin box, as some know the adapter does centralize the pin weight a lot more in a smaller area ,where as a standard hitch spreads it out more across the pin box . They claimed it deflected ,and put a bend in the plate around the kingpin. What I didn't care for on the adapter is that when the two cross bolts are in ,and the 4 set screws are tightened up, I have 3/16" gap between the adapter ,and pin box. I cut a piece of 3/16 plate 14" x 14" the size of the flat surface on the kingpin area , cut a hole to go around the kingpin, now everything is pretty much flush plus the added surface for the weight of the fifth wheel .

You mentioned overhang on the Andersen ,maybe you could elaborate on that statement . I am assuming you have never towed with or owned an Andersen hitch ??

To sum it up for me ,I will never go back to a standard hitch, there isn't a thing about the Andersen that would make me change back after several years now.
FYI, MORryde now makes a heavier adapter plate for their pin boxes. On the Anderson site, it lists the compatibility of their hitches with certain pinboxes, and where needed they list the upgraded plates that are recommended including the above.

I still do believe there are advantages to this hitch, and I had nothing but good results with it.
Now, going to a much heavier 5th wheel than our past one (about 4000lbs heavier) I started asking more questions. And again, I am basing my decisions on having a brand new Montana with a 3 year warranty that I do not want to compromise.

As to whether there are risks of the "offset adapters" that hitches like the AUH and the Pullrite SuperLite use, I can see where that may be possible, but I also think the likelihood is low. I guess "use at your own risk", and YMMV, etc

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Old 01-08-2021, 06:36 PM   #17
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FYI, MORryde now makes a heavier adapter plate for their pin boxes. On the Anderson site, it lists the compatibility of their hitches with certain pinboxes, and where needed they list the upgraded plates that are recommended including the above.

I still do believe there are advantages to this hitch, and I had nothing but good results with it.
Now, going to a much heavier 5th wheel than our past one (about 4000lbs heavier) I started asking more questions. And again, I am basing my decisions on having a brand new Montana with a 3 year warranty that I do not want to compromise.

As to whether there are risks of the "offset adapters" that hitches like the AUH and the Pullrite SuperLite use, I can see where that may be possible, but I also think the likelihood is low. I guess "use at your own risk", and YMMV, etc

Brad
I keep hearing this offset adapter thing, I suppose its because the adapter goes on the kingpin ,and offsets where the ball enters the adapter. I tow with a Ram 3500 short bed ,the shortest of the three. I run the adapter putting the front cap closer to the cab, so what that means is I am further back on my pin box where the ball of the Andersen enters the adapter then if I was towing with a standard hitch. Which means there is less leverage out on the pin box. So this offset thing for me is far from a factor. FYI ,but I have towed with the adapter the other way around on two different pin boxes , a Lippert ,and MORryde, not a problem.
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:50 PM   #18
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I'd like to weigh in on the Andersen. I am sure there are others ,but I have towed with both a standard hitch, and the Andersen. Hands down the Andersen is just plain easier, lighter etc. As you say the Andersen could hardly be a show stopper because of the adapter. I can't imagine not having the tools on hand to remove the adapter ,it's not difficult at all .


I have read one report on damage to a pin box, as some know the adapter does centralize the pin weight a lot more in a smaller area ,where as a standard hitch spreads it out more across the pin box . They claimed it deflected ,and put a bend in the plate around the kingpin. What I didn't care for on the adapter is that when the two cross bolts are in ,and the 4 set screws are tightened up, I have 3/16" gap between the adapter ,and pin box. I cut a piece of 3/16 plate 14" x 14" the size of the flat surface on the kingpin area , cut a hole to go around the kingpin, now everything is pretty much flush plus the added surface for the weight of the fifth wheel .

You mentioned overhang on the Andersen ,maybe you could elaborate on that statement . I am assuming you have never towed with or owned an Andersen hitch ??

To sum it up for me ,I will never go back to a standard hitch, there isn't a thing about the Andersen that would make me change back after several years now.
The overhang I was referencing was placing the "puck" in front of the king pin, which I believe that a lot of people do, because they think that it makes them be able to turn sharper, which it may not, but that's another thread.

When it's in front of the kingpin, that essentially moves the lever arm further away, and can put more stress on the connection at the frame.

So, for me, factoring all of that in, I decided to use the stuff that the trailer was "normally" designed for. Just to be clear, I have never used an Anderson, and I based my decision to use a standard hitch on what I thought was the overall better design structure wise for the trailer, and potentially warranty issues. My apologies to anyone that may have thought that my post was a slam on the AUH. It was not meant to be one hitch better than the other, just my personal opinion of how I arrived at my decision for my hitch setup...
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:42 AM   #19
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Well what does bug me on this AUH debate is the Hokey Pokey approach Montana has been dealing with AUH. In one rally AUH is on the approved product list and now the next rally it is announced that it is not.

I do not own an AUH but if I did I would be upset.
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Old 01-09-2021, 08:38 AM   #20
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Well what does bug me on this AUH debate is the Hokey Pokey approach Montana has been dealing with AUH. In one rally AUH is on the approved product list and now the next rally it is announced that it is not.

I do not own an AUH but if I did I would be upset.
Agreed. And that's ultimately the reason that I wimped out and took the high road. Just in case the waffled one way or the other. There's no waffling on conventional setups...
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