Banks SpeedBrake problems, GM warranty not honored

[larrymul]

I installed a Banks SpeedBrake system # 55444, with the IQ component, on my 2009 Silverado 2500HD 6.6 LMM last week in Texas, it tested out fine. On the way to Arizona to pick up our new 5er, I found had no cruise control and several of my DIC control functions did not work. When we got here (Prescott, AZ), I went to the GM dealer who said the Banks system totally crashed his diganostics cability. He gave me an option, leave the Banks and do without CC or remove Banks system. I opted to keep the SpeedBrake.

Hooked up the new 5er last night ready to leave....no trailer brakes with the OEM ITBC (factory brake controller). Back to the dealer this afternoon, after disconnecting the Banks system completely, he got the controller working, cancelled an air baq warning that was active and told me the Banks system compromised the GM OEM electronics, and there will be no warranty work performed. Charged me $105.00 and noted it in GM records with my VIN. This truck only has 18k miles plus I had bought an extended warranty when new.

Has anyone here had this problem, had their warranty voided? I can't get hold of Banks, being Saturday, and I leave for Texas in the morning. Needless to say I'm not a happy camper!

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas, I'm sure open to them.

Thanks, Larry

[stiles watson]

Sorry for your problems. Banks should be responsible. If I am not mistaken the extended warranty can be cancelled and a prorated return of the unused premium can be expected. Thank you for warning others that the auto makers aren't kidding about engine modifications voiding the warranty.

[klash]

WE have a 2011, with the exhaust brake and it is such a sweetheart for towing in the mountains. I had heard in the past that some GMChevy owners had chipped their Duramax diesels, but always removed the modification when going back to GM for servicing. I guess it is kind of hard to remove a total banks system.

Keep buying lottery tickets and maybe you can win and trade up to a 2011 or a 2012 and the exhaust brake is all done for you.

[drknapp]

We had an issue with ours (we had Banks install it). Ours is the version with the Switch. On three occasions my gauges went totally dead and I would drop out of cruise control if I had it on. it would run until I stopped and shut the engine down. Then the truck wouldn't start for about an hour (wouldn't even turn over). Apparently the ECM takes that long to reset. It would sometimes throw a data bus code (don't remember the number) After it started everything would be fine until it occurred again. Banks swapped out the unit and some of the cables, but it didn't cure the problem. Finally on a trip last year to Yellowstone it happened again.

After contacting Banks support they suggested openning up the connectors where the brake is wired into the big wire bundle and pull on the pins with a pair of needle nose pliers. Apparently they are spring loaded and don't always seat well when the Banks is installed. So far (knock on wood) we haven't had the problem reoccur in eight months so I'm feeling like we may have finally got the problem resolved. I talked with our local dealer when I had it in to check the codes and they told me that Chevy wouldn't have any issues with the brake as it didn't actually modify any of the trucks factory settings. So maybe it varies with whatever dealer you are at.
I would definitely get with Banks about the issue.

I'm really happy with the way the brake operates outside the issues we had.

[ols1932]

I have the complete Banks Power Pack System and Exhaust Brake. Have had no problems in ten years. Banks will back you in any disagreement with the truck manufacturer concerning installation of "their" equipment as it applies to affecting any truck warranty. Don't be afraid to contact them and get them to help you with the dealer. I fear that the dealer is the one telling you that the truck warranty is voided. Banks is not in the business to void vehicle warranties. When we were at Banks Engineering, I read three letters from the Big 3 automakers that specifically stated that their warranties were not voided by installation of any Banks system. That being said, IF the Banks system causes any breakdown, then that's a different story. Then, as Stiles mentioned, Banks will make it right.

Orv

[fauch]

Beware of the following:

* Banks as well as other after market modification marketers are using a 'play' on words when they say "our product will not void your warranty".
They are absolutely correct in that warranty is a general term that covers many things. ie., installing a 300hp tuner on your truck will not void your warranty., you can get upholstery, paint, and other items totally disconnected from drive train repaired in warranty. Take it in for any drivetrain failure, or anything else destroyed by the 300 additional hp and you are on your own

* New trucks, especially those manufactured after the 2007+ emissions control regulations, are 100Xs as complex as a 1995 truck. I would not violate the engineering that went into a 2009 GM, DM-A with something developed by ANY aftermarket company.

* TOW ratings include braking and stopping the load, don't *&^% with the truck! tow-haul downshifting makes 'optimal' use of engine braking; which includes not destroying the drivetrain with 15-20k pounds of downhill gravity force. An old Peter-bilt mechanic once told me that 100 miles of 'jake-brake' can do more damage than a million miles of driving.

* If you need braking in addition to trailer brakes, tow-haul technology AND 13" brakes on your truck, you should A) not be where you are, B) slow your *&* down, C) fix something on your rig, D) get a bigger truck, E) get a smaller trailer, and F) Do not fantasize about your 3/4 or 1 ton pickup truck being a Kenworth T660!

[fauch]

Oh, and yes, 'hiding' modifications to 'collect' warranty repairs IS FRAUDULENT!
and it all adds up to making it more expensive for all of us to purchase and repair/maintain our trucks

[TAKPAK]

I have asked the same questions about warranties and the Banks system to my dealer, and even calling to the factory. Same answer, warranty is VOID if any aftermarket installations are performed. Yes, it's true that Banks says they will "go to bat" for you, however, how long is that going to take, and how much will it eventually cost you? I would love to have an exhaust brake on my 2008 Duramax, but am not willing to compromise the warranty while still in effect. The dealer mentioned that an owner of a nearly new truck came in with a problem, he'd "chipped" his truck, and blew a hole through the piston. No warranty there. Just not worth it, especially since the dealer has gone the extra mile for me on some other warranty issues, even when some things are technically now "out of warranty".

[southern thunder]

A lot of it has to do with the dealer. My service writer on my last visit to the dealership recomended the Bully Dog programer. But from my own reserch I can see where an increase in mpg alone will not pay for it. And I had another service writer at the same dealership tell me that any modifications of this type would void the warranty.

[Hooker]

JMHO, of course, but with the newer model trucks, I don't understand why anybody puts anything on them. Our 07 D/A dually was plenty strong enough, and driving 62, with the Montana, got around 10.5 MPG.

[sreigle]

Will Banks go to bat for you even though it's a self-install or do they require installation by an authorized service center?

[lasater]

I had an '04 6.0L F350 with an Edge system installed. I blew a piston and sent aluminum all through the engine. Ford Co. said "no sweat, pay us $17,450 and we will put in a brand new re-built engine". After our lawyers got involved we got the price reduced to $8,000. That engine had 58K on it when it blew.

Don't believe the hype put out by after-market "m"ad-men. When your VIN gets black-listed then its YOYO (your on your on).

[ols1932]

There's a GM dealer in Victorville, CA that installs Banks systems on new trucks in the showroom. I can't believe they would then say that the Banks system voided the warranty! In the case of having Banks do the installs, they are then responsible for making sure their equipment doesn't blow an engine or drive train.

Orv

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

There's a GM dealer in Victorville, CA that installs Banks systems on new trucks in the showroom. I can't believe they would then say that the Banks system voided the warranty! In the case of having Banks do the installs, they are then responsible for making sure their equipment doesn't blow an engine or drive train.

Orv

Orv, GM has little say on what the dealers install as aftermarket equipment. In such a situation as you describe though, it would be pretty easy to make the dealer culpable for damages if GM denied a claim.

[Tom S.]

Maybe this will answer the question once and for all for GM owners:

Bulletin No.: 06-06-01-007B

Date: June 27, 2008
Subject:
Information On Identifying Duramax(TM) Diesel LB7, LLY, LMM, LBZ Overpower Engine Breakdown or Non-Function Due to Aftermarket Power-Up Devices vs. Non Overpower Engine Non-Function of Pistons, Cylinders, and Valvetrain Components

Models:
2001-2008 Chevrolet Silverado
2003-2008 Chevrolet Kodiak
2006-2008 Chevrolet Express
2001-2008 GMC Sierra
2003-2008 GMC TopKick
2006-2008 GMC Savana

with Duramax(TM) 6.6L V8 Turbo Diesel Engine (VINs 1, 2, 6, D - RPOs LB7, LLY, LMM, LBZ)

Supercede:

This bulletin is being revised to add additional information on identifying fuel related Aftermarket Power-Up Devices. Also a Caution statement was added regarding likely Powertrain damage and warranty. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 06-06-01-007A (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
Caution: Customers should be informed if a hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case and/or other driveline components, it is likely that powertrain components were weakened to the point of premature failure, while subjected to the higher stresses from Aftermarket Power-Up Devices. Failures associated with the installation of Aftermarket Power-Up Devices, which have been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

General Motors Position On Aftermarket Power-Up Devices
Important: General Motors does not support or endorse the use of devices or modifications that, when installed, increase the engine horsepower and torque. Refer to bulletin number 04-06-04-054 - Warranty Admin. - Non-GM Parts and Accessories (Aftermarket).

Important: For further information on aftermarket power-up kits, refer to February 2006 Emerging Issues Course Number 10206.02D. In Canada, information on aftermarket power-up kits will be covered in the April 2006 TAC TALK program.

Aftermarket power-up devices are non-approved by General Motors. These devices are usually piggy-backed in the main engine harness or remain connected to the diagnostic connector to upload the calibration to the ECM. Recent warranty reviews of returned engines show engine breakdown or non-function due to power-up devices that are utilized for increased horsepower and torque. The following information will assist technicians in identifying overpower engine breakdown or non-function due to aftermarket power-up devices vs. non overpower engine breakdown or non-function.

Non-GM parts can alter the design of the vehicle. GM dealers need to be aware of the quality of parts being installed on vehicles. If failure occurs as a result of installation of sub-par parts, warranty coverage may be denied. Refer to Service Bulletin Number 04-06-04-054 Warranty Admin. Non-GM Parts and Accessories (Aftermarket).

Installed Power-Up Kit

Aftermarket power-up kits have become a very popular add on for performance-minded customers. These devices can add horsepower and torque and can add additional stress to the engine. These aftermarket calibrations take the Duramax powertrain outside of its design torque and horsepower rating. They do this by altering air/fuel ratios and injector timing, resulting in excessive cylinder pressure and temperature. When these calibrated parameters are altered, it will upset the design balance and can lead to a reduction of engine life expectancy. Generally, in inspection of Duramax engine failure due to power-up failures, two or more cylinders will be affected.

Installed Power-Up Kit
^ Once installed, the calibration may mask itself with the factory original calibration ID and may remain the same.

^ A Tech 2(R) will not positively enable you to identify the use of a power-up device.

^ Some companies that offer power-up devices claim increases of 150 or more horsepower and 300 or more lb/ft pounds of torque.

^ A vehicle that is used to the power-up device potential 100% of the time will see earlier engine wear and breakdown.

^ A vehicle that takes advantage of additional power, but on a less frequent basis, may not see premature engine wear and breakdown until later in the engine's life.

^ A vehicle not pushed to its limits of the power-up device often may not encounter premature wear and breakdown until after the engine is out of warranty.

Duramax(TM) Powertrain Horsepower / Torque Ratings

The following horsepower and torque increase over the past years required new internal components to accommodate the increase.
^ LB7 - 300 hp with 520 ft/lb of torque for model years 2000-2004

^ LLY - 310 hp with 605 ft/lb of torque for model years 2004-2008

^ LBZ - 360 hp with 650 ft/lb of torque for model year 2006-2008

^ LMM - 365 hp with 660 ft/lb of torque for model year 2007-2008

LBZ Improvements

To reliably achieve an increase in 50 horsepower with 45 ft/lb torque, the Duramax(TM) diesel had to be revised in many areas. A few of the revisions on the 2006 LBZ were:
^ New pistons with a revised compression ratio.

^ Wrist pins that are larger in diameter.

^ Connecting rods with added material to increase the I section strength.

^ Engine block and machining changes.

^ Cylinder heads.

Duramax(TM) Life Expectancy
The Duramax 6.6L V8 Turbo Diesel Engine is sold with a warranty of 100,000 miles/160,000 kilometers. The Duramax has been tested to survive upwards of 200,000 miles/320,000 kilometers. The Duramax powertrain is designed for reliability, peak horsepower and torque within its design limits. When a customer installs a power-up device, it drastically reduces the mileage
ratings.

Important: Cylinder Wall Spotting (commonly referred to leopard spots) is from the induction hardening process of the top 1/3 of the cylinder wall. This is normal for the Duramax(TM) Diesel.

Identifying Fuel Related Aftermarket Power-Up Device



Aftermarket companies have developed a performance pressure relief fuel valve for Duramax diesel engines. Refer to above graphic illustration. The performance pressure relief fuel valve attaches to the fuel rail in place of the OEM valve and will not allow any fuel return to the tank, giving 100% of the fuel to be available for additional engine performance. This may cause additional fuel related driveability concerns and may set the following DTC'S:
^ DTC P1093 Fuel Rail Pressure (FRP) Low During Power Enrichment

^ DTC P0087 Fuel Rail Pressure (FRP) Too Low



Aftermarket companies have developed a replacement performance/economy fuel injector nozzle. Refer to above graphic illustration. The performance/economy fuel injector nozzles replace the OEM fuel injection nozzles. The aftermarket companies claim increased horsepower, improved fuel atomization, lower exhaust gas temperatures and increase fuel economy. This may cause additional fuel related driveability concerns and may cause internal engine damage to the pistons and fuel injector nozzles.

Identifying Overpower Engine Premature Wear and Breakdown

When premature wear and breakdown is encountered due to an aftermarket power-up device, it has some very specific characteristics to the internal engine components. The following list will assist in identifying these characteristics as you tear down the engine.


^ Pistons will be cracked in the lip area, or a hole in the pistons.


^ Pistons can also be melted on the lip of the combustion bowl, or the top of the pistons can be melted.


^ Crosshatch will be polished off the cylinder wall in the major thrust face of cylinder below ring belt travel.


^ Piston pin bore will show signs of scoring, the wrist pins will be discolored, and can have oil coking on them. The connecting rod bushing surface will have accelerated wear. The above illustration shows a connecting rod bushing.


^ Oil coking on the underside of the piston between the wrist pin bosses.


^ Signs of bearing fretting will also be noticed on the connecting rod and main bearing caps. Refer to the above illustration for fretting of main bearing cap 1 and back side of connection rod bearing 2.


^ Excessive heat in engine compartment caused by overpower device. Refer to above illustration (1).

Non Overpower Engine Premature Wear and Breakdown

The following pictures show results of overheat, overspeed, low/no oil pressure or injector breakdown and how they differ from aftermarket power-up device premature wear and breakdown.

Engine Overheat

Overheat can be caused by a loss of coolant or a general cooling system failure. Some of the indicators of overheat are:


^ Melted pistons.

^ Head gasket breakdown or non-function.

^ Warped cylinder heads.

^ Crankshaft and connecting rod discolored.

Engine Overspeed Causes
If an engine has been run faster than design capability (redline), and has caused damage as a result, it may be a result of one of the following
conditions:

Leaking or failed turbo oil seals.
^ Oil evident in the intake runners and compressor side of the turbo.

^ Starting fluid use or alternative fuel added to the engine such as ether.

Engine Overspeed Results



The images shown above are indicators that an overspeed event took place.

Lack of Oil Pressure



Lack of lubrication causes rapid bearing wear or bearing to seize as shown above.

Engine Premature Wear and Breakdown Due to Improper Function of Fuel Injector

A fuel injector may fracture a piston or melt a piston but the damage will be limited to that cylinder only and all other pistons and cylinder walls are OK. In some cases hydraulic lock will occur on the suspected cylinder with an over-fueling fuel injector. Hydraulic lock on the suspected cylinder will cause a bent connecting rod. This can be verified with piston protrusion measurements.
Important: Copy aftermarket power-up kit check list when performing an engine disassembly investigation of overpower engine breakdown or non-function.

Aftermarket Power-Up Kit Check List
1. Piston cracked parallel to wrist pin.

^ Piston cracked in lip area.

^ Hole in piston connecting top of piston to oil cooling channel.

2. Melted Pistons.

^ Lip of combustion bowl melted.

^ Top of piston melted / missing.

3. Cross hatching polished off cylinder wall. Cylinder wall missing crosshatch on major thrust face of cylinder below ring belt travel.

4. Piston pin bore, Wrist pin, and Rod bushing.

^ Scoring in upper piston pin boss/black discoloration/oil coking.

^ Wrist Pin Wear

^ Rod bushing surface worn and discolored.

5. Carbon coking to underside of piston.

^ Discoloration of underside of Piston.

^ Discoloration and carbon coking buildup on underside of piston between piston pin bosses.

6. Accelerated rod / Main Bearing wear.

^ Fretting on backside of bearing.

^ Bearing surface distressed.

How to handle an engine failure suspected due to a power up Device

Dealers should not automatically decline warranty assistance on engine failures due to the fact that a power-up device or modification is evident or suspected. The technician must identify that the failure is due to a power-up device by teardown analysis and diagnosis of the engine components. The following steps should be taken if an engine failure occurs and it is suspected that the modification or addition of a power-up device maybe the cause of the engine failure. If unclear of this process or direction feel free to contact your District Service Manager (DVM) (in Canada, DSM) for further support.
1. The technician should use proper engine diagnostics to lead him/her to the failed engine components. The attached check sheet should be followed and if it is determined that at least three of the check sheet items match the engine component failures then it can be decided that the failure is not a warrantable claim.

2. Engine failures that meet at least three criteria of the check sheet are considered failures that are not manufacturers defects in workmanship or materials.

3. The dealership should contact the PQC, open a case to review the findings and make the final decision on warranty coverage. The DVM (in Canada, DSM) should be notified of the PQC decision.

4. Denied claims should be documented as follows:

a. The check sheet completed with the technicians detailed written findings of his diagnosis on the repair order.

b. Photographs of the failed parts should be maintained in the RO file.

5. The customer should be advised that the failure of their engine was not due to a manufacturer's defect in workmanship or materials and therefore the warranty claim is denied on this failure.

[AaronAnita]

I installed the Banks system in my F-350, 6.0. While under warranty, the head gaskets started leaking due to weak initial design. The Ford dealer had their head mechanic hooked up all their diagnostic equipment, switched the Banks to it's highest setting, and ran my pickup hard. Not once were any of the Ford design parameters exceeded. In their parking lot, I unplugged the Banks computer, removed it and they replaced the head gaskets with the newer design, under warranty. When I picked up my pickup, the mechanic advised me to take it home and reconnect the Banks computer. I appreciate the extra power when pulling a hill, the 2+ mpg increase I get loaded or empty and that the engine doesn't work as hard when towing our trailer.

[CamillaMichael]

Seems whenever something goes wrong noone wants to take responsibility...the dealer points at us, or the manufacturer points at the comsumer, or in this case the dealer points at the consumer. Integrity in the market place??? Ha!

[drknapp]

Well, I have an update after my earlier post in response to Larry's.

I happened to take my truck in for regular servicing on Monday and asked the dealer to look into what appears to be a very minor leak (some spotting in driveway) in the area of the transmission. The dealer refused to work on it due to having the Banks Brake installed and voided the rest of my drivetrain warranty also. I tried to argue the point that it's not an engine calibration device, just a brake controller, but to no avail. What really makes this frustrating is the same dealer worked with me when I was having the connector problems with the banks last year.

Apparently GM is getting to be even more of a stickler. I e-mailed Banks to see what they have to say. Fortunately my problem is relativaly minor and I am close to the end of my warranty period.

[richfaa]

Pay no attention to what the truck manufacturers say. What do they know.Install the aftermarket device and see what happens.How ever banks does guarantee???? that their equipment will not harm the motor..has anyone tested that claim??

Hold it...It looks like banks warranties their product..not the motor???

http://www.bankspower.com/support/warranty

[1retired06]

I have never felt the need with my last two trucks to modify anything. Had plenty of power. My new F350 dually with the 6.7 is significantly better than my old 6.0, and is complex; I wont risk that 100,000 mile warranty. I have not experienced any warranty issues, but have been told of several, where dealers are looking for any means to not do warranty work.