3585SA Specifications

[MacDR50]

If you have a 2008 3585SA or happen to be near one, would you check the outside vehicle loading information plate? It is on the bedroom slide side toward the front. The information should match that on the sticker on the back of the door in the kitchen. I would appreciate either a reply here or a message to my in box. I only need GVWR, axle size and cargo capacity.

Thanks.

[kerry]

The sticker on the outside does not match the inside sticker, it gives the axle load ratings. The sticker in the cabinet will tell you the dry weight (UVW-unloaded vehicle weight). CCC on the sticker will give you the cargo carring capacity. Hope this helps. Kerry

[Wayne and Carolyn Mathews]

We have a "late" 2007 3585SA, not a true 2008, so this may not help, but the info Kerry gave you is exactly the info posted on our outside sticker and the inside cabinet sticker.

Carolyn

[MacDR50]

What I am trying to establish is whether the 3585SA is a different GVWR in the USA than Canada. I know the inside sticker is different depending on unit. My inside and outside both show the load specs with 531# for water and 603 for LPG. Both show a max cargo of 1749# plus the water and propane. This much lower than the over 4000# shown on the Keystone web site and in the brochure.

[Wayne and Carolyn Mathews]

I think a question similar to yours has recently been posted on one of the boards in the MOC forum because I remember reading the answer, which included something about the difference (or non-difference) in GVWR between Canada and the US. Whoever responded was familiar with the discrepency in weight among the brochure/web site and the sticker(s). I can't remember what topic title was used for the post, but you might try posting a new topic with a title like GVMW, Canada vs. US or maybe GVMW Web/Brochure/Sticker Discrepencies or anything similar that would get the attention of anyone familiar with that issue. You may already have tried that without success, but if not, I definitely think it's worth your time to post something with those terms in the topic title. Good luck--that's an important question that should have a quick, clear answer.
Carolyn

[MacDR50]

Well I finally got a reply from Keystone. According to them the Canadian Standards Association hasn't approved the 7000# axles. Hence the use of the 6000# ones in units sold here and the lower GVWR. Will other Canucks out there who get a chance to check their 2006 or newer units post the axle specs? I find it hard to comprehend why the CSA wouldn't have tested and approved the axles by now. If anyone has a Dexter contact I would appreciate getting it so I can verify with them. My dealer is about to also be informed so others don't get caught by this discrepancy between the brochures and what can be sold here.

[OntMont]

It may have been me that posted about axles. A few years ago we toured the Big Sky plant and got into a discussion about axle ratings. At that time, (as I recall it) Keystone were using the 7000lb axle, but derating it to something like 6500lbs, because authorities in Canada (CSA?) would not accept a 7000 lb rating on that axle.

Later I had some discussions with Dexter on an alignment problem, and possible upgrading of axle, and I believe it was again mentioned about the difference in axle ratings between U.S. and Canada. (as I said, this was a while ago, and things may have changed since then).

My conversations with Dexter were with a Christine Bachman who seemed very knowledgable about axles. I am copying a part of one of her messages to me, because it is somewhat relevant to this discussion, and gives some insight into Ms Bachman's depth of knowledge. If you communicate with Ms Bachman, I would first get the serial numbers off your axles. They should be stamped on the metal tube, and will not be real easy to see without a good light.

Message from Dexter follows...

Thank you for visiting the Dexter Axle website and sending us your question.

The axle number indicates that for the most part you already have a lot of
the 7000 pound rated components/features on your current axles. Therefore,
"upgrading" to our standard 7000 pound product line will not gain you
anything different.

The 6000 pound and 7000 pound product line uses many of the same base
components like the tube and the spindle. But the main differentiation
usually is the hub choices and brake options. The 6 bolts hubs are rated for
6000 pounds and would probably be the most common choice for 6000 pound
applications. The 8 bolt hubs are rated for 7000 pound applications and has
already been selected for your axle. The brake that was specified is the
more aggressive lining that is normally used in 7000 pound applications.

Upgrading the axle beam, brakes and hubs will not achieve a capacity
increase unless you also change your leaf springs which are rated for only
3000 pounds per spring assembly.

You mentioned that you are currently experiencing alignment problems. Are
you having axle alignment issues where the axle is not perfectly 90 degrees
to the trailer frame. Or is the problem a toe alignment which would cause
sawtooth tire wear and may be found on only one wheel end. Or is the
alignment issue due to loss of camber and seeing smooth inside tire wear on
both left and right.

The proper solution can only be determined by me better understanding what
your exact problem is.

Jumping up to 7200 or 8000 pound axle models may cause some clearance issues
due to larger brake size. Typically users will have to also go to larger
wheel/tires to actually gain increased capacity beyond a 16" wheels capacity
and again this may cause interference issues with existing trailers not
originally designed to accommodate them.

Attached is our record information on your axle for your reference.

Christine Bachman
Application Engineer

[richfaa]

The above post is very informative. I recall a conversation with Dexter some time ago about upgrading to the 7K axle and was informed that we could pretty much achieve the same thing by upgradeing only the leaf springs to the 7K rating. The post seems to verify that statement.???

[OntMont]

I took another look at the Dexter web site. This is what is posted with regard to axles in the 5500 to 7000 lb category. Notice the line about brakes, "CSA approved at 6000 lb." Maybe this is the root of the problem.

Copied from Dexter web site..."

5500-7000 lbs. capacity
#1113088;
Complete service manual
#1113088;
Precision machined, forged steel spindles
#1113088;
Precision machined integral cast iron hub/drums
#1113088;
8-bolt and 5 bolt (UTG) hubs available
#1113088;
Standard grease; optional oil bath;
E-Z Lube® or Nev-R-Lube™ option
#1113088;
Press-in wheel studs (8-bolt)
#1113088;
12 x 2" CSA approved electric brakes (at 6000#),
12 x 2" hydraulic brakes
#1113088;
Brakes are available with and without parking feature
#1113088;
Hydraulic free backing brakes available
#1113088;
Hydraulic brakes - uni-servo and duo-servo available
#1113088;
Inner wiring system for easier installation and protection of
brake wiring
#1113088;
Heavy wall 3" diameter tube
#1113088;
Straight or Drop spindles (4" drop only)
D60 & D70
LEAF SPRING
#1113088;
High quality alloy steel springs in a variety of capacities
#1113088;
Single, tandem or triple axle assemblies with equalized
suspensions
#1113088;
Slipper spring or double eye leaf spring suspension
#1113088;
Optional hanger and attaching parts kits available
#1113088;
Durable, wear-resistant components
#1113088;
2 year limited warranty

®

[MacDR50]

Thanks OntMont. I will contact Dexter with the axle information. I asked Keystone about the "Rumour" with respect to the axle derating but they couldn't or wouldn't confirm it. As a point of interest, the dealer rep. also indicated he felt that the 8 bolt wheel meant a heavier axle capacity than indicated. If it is only the brake that is in question then I feel somewhat better.

Added on edit:
I checked the CSA approvals for Dexter axle assemblies. Mine are model D60 which seem to be identical to the D70 according to the Dexter information OntMont gave above. With the 12x2 electric brake assembly they are CSA approved at 6000#. The D70 requires at least a 12.25x3.38 brake assembly for the 7000# CSA approval. Below is the CSA approvals from their directory. I checked the DEXTER site and the only real difference between the 6000# CSA approved brake assembly and the 7000# non-CSA approved 14X2 brake is the magnet. I am guessing the magnets for all Montanas 3585SA are the same. That makes it a 7000# axle in the USA and a 6000# one in Canada. I will confirm with an e-mail to DEXTER. Thanks again OntMont for helping me get on the right path.

D60 up to 6000 12 x 2 CSA 14.2
D60 up to 6000 6K DISC 14.3
D60C up to 6000 12 x 2 CSA 14.2 Cartridge bearings
D60C up to 6000 6K DISC 14.3 Cartrige bearing
D72 up to 7100 12.25 x 2.5 14.2
D72C up to 7100 12.25 x 2.5 14.2 Cartridge bearings
D70 up to 7000 12.25 x 3.38 14.2
D70 up to 7000 8K DISC 14
D70C up to 7000 12.25 x 3.38 14.2 Cartridge bearings
D70C up to 7000 8K DISC 14 Cartridge bearings
D80 up to 8000 8K DISC 14
D80C up to 8000 8K DISC 14 Cartridge bearings