Synthetic oils

[sreigle]

The Fords come with synthetic from the factory in the automatic transmission and differential. I know all superdutys from 1999 on that is true. I don't know about before that.

The 6.0 powerstroke has a 5yr/100k mile warranty that is void if I don't adhere to the oil change interval schedule. That makes synthetic too expensive for my tastes. When this engine hits 100k miles I'll switch to synthetic and change it less often. Until then, the warranty is the paramount factor in my book.

[skypilot]

Just got off the phone with Dodge customer service tech -- took forever to talk to a real human but.... asked the question about extended oil change (and using a 2nd filter - FS2000 to clear the soot) -- was told DC was taking a very hard look at any engine issue if oil not changed IAW book for type of use. Didn't care if you use Dino or syn, just make sure to change it like the book says. So, extended oil changes are out it appears -- at least for Dodge cummins 2004.5 models.

Oh yeah - forgot to even get an answer on adding the 2nd filter to control soot

[Montana Sky]

I think I will stick with my 3,000 mile oil changes with the standard oil. The cost vs. benefit would not pay for those who change every 3k.

[BigAl52]

Skypilot
I don't know what your manual says but mine says 15000 miles in my dodge. I guess we all need to consider what extended drains are. Montana Sky if you are comfortable with those 3000 mile changes then thats what you should do. But in my opinion your throwing money down the drain. Even our top mechanic at work does his at 5000 miles and his truck is the same as yours. Dsprik owners manuals I have say 3000 in the city and 7500 on the highway both cases reccommended not mandatory to validate warranty. Sreigle if your owners manual says that you will void the warranty it would be the first one that I have EVER come across to say that. It used to be said that they could void your warranty if you used synthetic but it was in court several times and they lost. The synthetic is API certified just like the Dino is. As far as extended drain in the airplane issue I got an idea that there was some filtration problems. Filtration is the key to extended drains and the common over the counter filter is not suited for extended drains. Just my opinion and not trying to sell anybody anything. If you have an open mind about the issue you may be open for a change. But some people are not going to change because talking engine oil to some is like talking politics or religion. Happy Trails to all Al

[c5racer]

Dodge has 2 schedules, 1 for towing and the other for not towing. The towing oil changes are not 15,000, if I remember right it is 3,000 when towing. It's in the owners manual

[Sweetfire]

Lester, everytime I see your picture it makes me think you live real close to the club house at the Hurricane golf course. Like maybe a block or two?

[H. John Kohl]

My 03 Dodge 3500 says 15000 normal use and 7000 towing. I have been doing it at 5000 towing with regular oil.
If I go synthetic then will probably extend to 15000. Still want to run the figures and also see what the MPG does if anything.

[c5racer]

Sweetfire, we live on the South side of Hwy 9, the golf course is on the North side. It is called Painted Hills.

[Sweetfire]

Ah, I saw the ridge in the background and the slope of your property 2+2=5. Nice place.

[trukdoc]

As a professional Mechanic and a former Fleet manager and currently a business owner, I have a bit of experiance on this subject. First oil does not break down synthetic or not. It is the additives that break down! In a 15-40 oil synthetic or dino the base oil is 15W. Heat activated thickening agents is what gives you the 40 WT. Through timing gears and the oil pump itself the thickening agent is sheared, to a point this is OK. But sheared too much you will revert to a 15 WT oil. I have asked Amsoil about this and never got a straight answer on how they are able to overcome this. And second is the fact oil is designed to "Wash" the inside of the engine and keep impurities in suspension. The byproducts of combustion is water, acids, nitrates and carbon which are flushed from the engine during oil changes. I have seen the oil filters so fine that dirty oil comes out clean...problem is it also filters out the additives and you are back to 15 wt oil.
I was told by an oil engineer that the best thing for your engine is regular oil changes useing a "Quality Oil and Quality Filter" If the aftermarket additives were beneficial the oil companies would have it in their oil and boast the benifits to gain marketing advantage. They do not put these additives in their oil because they cannot prove they work. A quality oil has everything you need.
Now Transmissions and Rear ends I do believe in synthetic oils due to the lack of combustion problems and the long intervals between oil changes.
Beware slick sales pitches. They tend to cost you money. I would think the car manufacturer would use this oil if it cut down on repairs under warranty. Detroit Deisel came out with the series 60 engine about 10 years ago and the first couple of years insisted on useing Delvac oil that was a synthetic in order to maintain their warranty....this is no longer the case. Seems it did not have the benefits it boasted.
But to each his own.

[Sweetfire]

Great post Rick, made a lot of sense.

[azstar]

Rick,

Your thought that the Car Manufacturer would put it in at the factory if it was that good, reminded me that the Viper and the Corvette come from the factory with Mobil 1.

I have used it in my Motorcycle collection for about 15 years. Both air cooled and water cooled bikes and as far as I know all the Race Bikes Teams are using it. I have seen the Harley team using nothing but Syn. Mobil 1.

I could leave a bike sit for several weeks without running it and pull the valve covers and the cams still have oil on them. Not so with Dino oil.

The most critical time for lubrication is during start-up. I believe the Syn. oil keeps a film on the internals at this critical time.

More food for thought.

Happy Camping

[trukdoc]

aztar I respect your opinion and as I said "Marketing Advantage" Corvett and Viper made a big deal that Mobile One was in their engine. I wonder what that cost Mobile for pushing their product. I would bet a very pretty penny, it was not done out of the goodness of the munufacterer heart. As for racing teams...Sponsers tend to back out when their products are not pushed. And how many race cars put 15000 miles on their oil. I will stick to what I said. The point to a 3000 mile oil change is to flush out your engine. Comparing a daily driver to a high dollar sponsered race car just does not make much sense. As for Dino oil not staying on engine parts it so happens today I disassembled a D348 D8K Caterpillar engine that has been sitting more than 10 years. There was still plenty of oil in the bearings, the camshaft was still coated and cylinders still wet. Seems someone 10+ years ago said the engine was bad and after all this time the company decided to do something, turns out there is nothing major wrong with it. Ouch talk about expensive.
Folks I do not deny that Synthetic oil is a better oil, it is. BUT! considering the minimal benifits, is it cost effective? As a professional in the trade for better than 20 years I personally choose to flush the contaminants out of my eng about every 4000 miles rather than keeping it suspended inside of my engine for extended miles for more money. As for the fact that synthetic oil has a much much higher flash point than the dino oil, no arguement... other than to say by the time this becomes an issue your heads are already cracked and pistons have galled the cylinders because even though your synthetic oil can take the extreme heat. Your engine cannot!
If you want to belive that your eng will live forever, and all the ills of the motor universe will go away, the advertisers did their job. Buy the product. I am going to stick with common sense save a bit of money and still expect about 400k on my engine. At the risk of being tacky I am paid very well for my opinions and experiance... I gave it to you for free!
Happy trails!
PS: I change my oil at 4000 rather than 3000 due to 90% of my driving is not in town rather all hiway driving.

[BigAl52]

Trucdoc
Is this why recently Ford motor company sent a letter of appreciation to Amsoil for the making of the 5w 20 oil that they are now requiring in some of there engines? In fact filtration is the key to all oils and many many test have been done with extended drains. Have a local Master mech who is one of only 7 in the country to pass a special type test for General motors who claims that extended drains are a thing that is up and coming. They are also working on engines that you will never drain your oil as they will not have an oil drain. Only an oil tank with which to draw from. A computer will tell the engine when the oil needs to be replaced and it will burn off the old and replace it with the new. Just my 02 cents worth Al

[trukdoc]

I go back to say that it is the contaminants that is the problem. As I said oil Dino or Synthetic does not break down, the additives do.
When they can isolate the contaminants the oil change can be extended as long as they can also get the additives to hold up.
But we are a ways off now are we not? Not much of an arguement today.

[BigAl52]

I will agree about the contaminents in the oil and that is what breaks down the additives that are in the dino oil to make it do what it is supposed to do. However there are no additives in the synthetic oil as it does what the dino does without them. Al

[sreigle]

Bottom line for me is I change the oil at 5000 or less, per the manual for towing, to maintain the 100,000 mile engine warranty. Even if I went to synthetic I still change it at 5000 because that's required to maintain the warranty.

[Garin1]

Pheeew,,, that is to much information. Trukdoc, you and BigAl52 need to sit down together and have a cup of coffee.

[richfaa]

I know very little about the subject. That is why I seek information from"experts" that I figure should know. The master mechanic at our bus garage was almost word for word what Truckdoc said. They change oil on the fleet every 3K 0r 5K miles depending on use.We have always changed out our oil on all of our vehicles every 3K miles.. Our family had a business that had a lot of trucks and My dad changed fluids every 3K miles. Bought Wolves head and Havoline oil by the barrel. We use what the manufacturer says to use on the Honda and The Ford.The Honda says change every 10K miles..it gets changed every 3K miles same with the Ford 350. I guess everyone does what works best for them..

[Bear Hunter]

I had a friend who is in timber business and has used AMSOIL in all his equipment for over 30 yrs now. He has never had a major engine or transmission problem since he began using it and he puts over a million mile on his semi's before getting new ones. I have used AMSOIL in all my cars, trucks, boat motors and all other "Big Boy Toys" as well as my farm tractors. I can show the cost savings because of the less frequent changes. I get a new vehicle the first thing I do is replace all fluids with synthetic's. I also use all AMSOIL filters which I change every 3,000 miles and change oil every 20,000(+-). I send and oil sample to be checked when I change filters. Maybe I've been real lucky or the product really works. I haave never had a warranty issue.