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Old 06-26-2015, 06:18 AM   #1
Glenn the fifth
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Quality of product

Hello all. First off, although it may come across as such, this is not meant to be a negative post or Montana bashing. It is simply an observation. Every time I am working on something on our 5er and take something apart that I have not looked behind/under/around before, I am often amazed by what I find. There are misaligned/missing screws, missing/un-attached bracing material, lots (I mean lots) of sawdust and other building materials (stripped wire pieces, little pieces of wood) laying around everywhere. We have always liked looking at other trailers/campers as a hobby and do so quite often. Whenever we are in a SOB over the last couple of years I have been paying extra attention to look at craftsmanship and build quality. In most cases I have noticed that most SOBs seem to have better craftsmanship and after manufacturing cleanup than I have witnessed in my last 2 Montana 5th wheels. Don't get me wrong here, we have had very good luck with our Montana 5th wheels, but I just wonder if they are working too hard to put out the numbers to support their sales and if they have taken a step back on the craftsmanship and other areas I have noted lately. -Glenn
 
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Old 06-26-2015, 06:42 AM   #2
1retired06
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I thought I read somewhere that they raised the daily production rate by 25%
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Old 06-26-2015, 06:44 AM   #3
richfaa
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You have a point but we have seen similar in other brands. We had a Coachman that had so much sawdust in the ceiling light fixtures that the lights were dim. we did some quality control work years ago in other industries. If you tour the Montana plant, any Keystone plan or any SOB plant you will note a near lack of quality control. IMO Keystone has not taken a step back nothing has changed since our 2006 3400.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:04 AM   #4
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I made a similar post a few weeks back, but it got relocated in the (Hey Keystone) forum by MOC administrators. Newer owners don't seem to notice haw sadly these units are slapped together because they didn't own one back in say 2002 to compare. Another reason is not all owners do alot of hands on work to their units like you and I and don't get behind the "eye candy" to see what it is stuck to. I've noticed a significant decline in build quality in the past 5 years ... SOB's included and believe me, I've worked on a bunch of units over the years. Technology is way ahead of what my 2850RK had back in 2000 ... how it was put together, welds, and placement of fastners has taken a slide backwards. I still like my Montana ... I just hesitate to invest in another.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:14 AM   #5
Glenn the fifth
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Dieselguy, that is exactly what I am saying. We started with Keystones about 12 years ago and things do seem "different" to me. I have always liked getting into the far reaches of these things and with the one I have had the last 3 years I keep finding things that just blow me away. Some of the work is like something I would expect out of my 15 year old son when he is just learning to do something. I am not asking for, nor do I expect perfection, but come on, how about a little pride in your work and/or product? -Glenn
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:15 AM   #6
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yep Glen,i have noticed the same thing when opening the underbelly and hoses and wiring are just laying all over no zip ties etc...sawdust all over the place etc.. I am amazed these things hold up as well as they do(at least my last 3 Monty's have) but like was said before I think it is industry wide,I was helping my buddy work on his SOB and same thing sawdust and crap everywhere behind the bulkheads and underbelly etc...,on all the jobs I've had if I was that sloppy I would be fired
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:22 AM   #7
DQDick
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I'm with Diesel Guy. I've looked at new Monty's and new SOB's and haven't seen anything I would trade mine in for. Workmanship was lacking in every brand I saw. Pricing, however, had increased dramatically.
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:52 PM   #8
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I have not had the issues you described on our 2012 model. I was at my dealer when the transport pulled on the lot with it. I was inside the unit within 15 minutes and found it to be very clean.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:57 AM   #9
richfaa
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In hindsight we should have kept our 06 3400 put 5K or more into it for upgrades and been way better off. This 13 3402 Big Sky is pretty and c after 3 years and about 5K in repairs we may have turned the corner. Thank goodness for extended warranties.
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:11 AM   #10
1retired06
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Our 2002 was trouble free, except for a leaking AC replaced by dealer. 2005 and 2010 units never saw a repair facility except for me. Our 2015, as reflected in previous posts, has been a myriad of headaches and a major disappointment. Like others, should have been smarter and stuck with the 2010.
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:17 PM   #11
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It seems a good many of us that have purchased new in the last couple of years agree that workmanship both in the construction and products from vendors has deteriorated.

Only time now will tell if these many problems once resolved will reappear, new additional problems arise, or if we will have good sailing from here.
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Old 06-27-2015, 05:29 PM   #12
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Thanks to this forum and the people who offer their opinions, I know I made a good decision to buy the 2010. It isn't perfect, but the previous owner must have worked the bugs out. It has been basically trouble-free (knock on wood) for us. We have added our personal touches like the EMS and G614's. It is slowly becoming "our" camper with the mods we have put in place. Reading about the people here who have traded up to newer and found maybe the quality control isn't what it once may have been, makes me want to become more entrenched with this unit and continue to make modifications that fit our lifestyle, instead of trading up.
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Old 06-28-2015, 03:20 AM   #13
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We did a lot of research before buying our first fiver and came to the conclusion that Keystone Montana was a decent value and had a good variety of floor plans.

When Scott (PackerFan) told us how much they liked their 3725RL model we looked at one and decided to trade up. Again, we based that buying decision on the same conclusion with the added belief that the factory warranty would ensure any issues would be resolved should they arise.

I still believe that a Montana fiver is a good value and they do offer a wide variety of layouts. However I have also learned that the factory warranty is "hit and miss" at best. My future plan, and my advise to anyone looking to purchase a newer fiver would be to NEVER purchase a new one from Keystone RV.

Sambam is on the right track IMHO.
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Old 06-28-2015, 09:07 AM   #14
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We were recently looking at some of the new 2015 & 2016 Montana's and we were very disappointed in the new designs & styles. Seems Keystone has gone back to the square/flat rear ends of the campers with the cheap rectangle surface mounted tail lights. They dropped the contoured rear shell with the tail lights built into it. Really made the unit look cheap from the outside and look like a travel trailer. Thought Montana was supposed to be the Top of the Line with Keystone!
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Old 06-28-2015, 09:14 AM   #15
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Scott-- The Keystone/Montana Division has now eliminated the Mountaineer models by name and have given them the Montana name. They are the ones that have the square rear-ends and square taillights. The Montana Legacy is now the Montana we all know and have with the rear cap and extras inside and out. They told us about the change over at last year's Fall Rally in Goshen. There were some unhappy people there until they found out about the Legacy. You can now get the "full paint" on the Legacy also beside other options that used to be reserved for the Big Sky!
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Old 06-28-2015, 03:09 PM   #16
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We bought our 2012 3402RL during a RV show, our unit was on display and looked wonderful, it was clean everywhere you could see without taking something apart, we were impressed and the floor plan was exactly what we were looking for. Traded in our SOB which we had for 2 years without problems, it was just not as big as DW wanted.
Since purchasing this unit I have had occasion to be in every nook and cranny in the unit, I have found staples/screws that missed their mark, screws broken off, 5 hydraulic plugs in various places, sawdust and bits and pieces everywhere. What least impressed me was when I pulled out my stove to add an additional electronic spark for my oven, virtually no support for the counter top, screws that were supposed to be holding the stove in place doing nothing, going nowhere. Same with the bed frame after it pulled away from the slide wall, really would anyone think that the paneling alone was going to do the job for any length of time, how about trying to hit a stud. Screws too short or missing in the pocket doors, bed frame wheels with minimal support and screws too short.
Now I could go on with many more "minor" things but you get my drift.

Very few if any of these "minor" issues would have been known to me if I had not been able to fix things myself, those that cannot or do not look behind the glitz do not have any idea how the shelves or drawers are held in (well sort of) and so many other things.

I know this is not unique to Keystone, far from it, and I think most of us expect not everything will be perfect, what "I" however do expect is the manufacturer to show some pride in part which we cannot see and establish at least some QC before these things leave the factory.

Have not looked at many units since purchasing this one so cannot comment on what is happening with current models, I am pretty sure what I have found in my 2012 will not have been improved in the newer models. As with sambam we are happy with our floor plan, have certainly not only added our personal touch but have now fixed everything that has needed fixing other than the crap workmanship on my roof which so far Keystone has said they will not "participate" in repairing and that it is not a manufacturing defect. Note: "Participate" seems to be the new keyword/catchword with Keystone.

Nope Keystone could not give me a new unit because I would have to spend all this money over again, no thanks, I just want my roof dealt with and I will happily carry on with what I have.


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Old 06-29-2015, 09:32 AM   #17
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Ronda: Thanks for the info. I didn't know that Keystone had made those changes to their line up. Makes more sense now after looking at a few new rigs and seeing the differences.
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