A black tank is not that strong

[richfaa]

Will..That is the one. The outlet is glued. We always travel with at least 10 gal or so of fresh water for lunch stops, potty breaks, etc.I do not trust the integrity of the fresh water tank with 60 gals of water in it and bouncing down the road. Don't trust the integrity of any of the tanks...

[Mudchief]

Rich, I looked at the tanks this summer when at the factory and those white water tanks have much thicker walls then those black tanks. I bet if they had that vendor make the black ones out of the same material we would not be having the problem that we are. I don't recall hearing anyone complaining about a cracked fresh water tank.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Will..That is the one. The outlet is glued. We always travel with at least 10 gal or so of fresh water for lunch stops, potty breaks, etc.I do not trust the integrity of the fresh water tank with 60 gals of water in it and bouncing down the road. Don't trust the integrity of any of the tanks...

Thanks for the clarification. That's what the service writer at the dealer had told me. That will explain leaks when you let them over fill. That shouldn't stress the tank if they use the grommet at the inlet and vent pipe. If it is cracking it is probably from some other stress; mounting, weight, etc.

[Leaseit]

Rich. curious question. Who makes the Black Tank and did they say how their tanks should be installed? Supported or suspended maybe? Do they have a web site or installation type pdf that explains how to install there tanks? I would sure like to know incase we should have a black tank problem somewhere down the road and need to have it installed.
Randy

[richfaa]

Travel Star Products,64524 CR-27, Goshen, Ind 574-533-0447 That is not far from the Montana Plant and Service Center. Actually they are on the corner of Cr-27 nd E. Kercher Rd. It may be better to call them and ask them about the black tanks..

Here is my post from Feb 2008..My last Black tank failure.

"Spoke to Travel star today ..the vendors for the Montana holding tank regarding the leak and why it leaked.. First the tank is not designed to be a free "standing tank" they recommend they have support at the bottom to relieve stress..The crack ws as we suspected..stress related..another "cost effective measure" by Keystone..To fix the leak take the black ABS plumbers glue.. submerge the appropriate amount in cold water till it thickens into a ball..then apply ,Before applying clean the affected spot with acetone and rough with sand paper. This fixs as suggested by the vendor and how they repair them at the factory...Soooo I will do that..

[scductman]

That sounds like it will work because the ABS glue will melt the tank somewhat when you put it on the tank. It did when I was working on mine.
bobby

[Rondo]

Rich-- Are you saying to drop the glue into cold water and let it harden then apply it to the crack? Do you just rub it on or what and do you have to heat it back up after you apply it to the crack? Inquizative minds want to know! LOL

[richfaa]

Just as it says Rondo. That's what they told me and it works. It does not harden, it thickens sort of applies like putty you can work it into the defect. Then it hardens.I have no idea of the chemistryut it worked as they described. Give them a call they are nice to work with.

[Exnavydiver]

It is MAGIC

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by Exnavydiver

Steve, I know EXACTLY how you feel, but one point I would like to make about the insulation situation. When my tank blew I dropped the belly pans and hosed the that whole area out with water and clorox. The insulation being Mylar and plastic bubble wrap did not absorb any of the effluent. It all hosed off very nicely, I sun dried it all then re-installed it clean. They shouldn't have had to use "house" insulation. But if you are in snow and cold and trying to get it all done while exposed to the weather I can see how that happened.. You are right about there being no support under the tanks though. Next time I get REAL bored I will drop the belly and install straps to support the black and gray tanks... Dave

Dave, having seen that insulation at the factory I suspected it should just hose right off but I did not know what they'd done until it was a done deal and the old was in a dumpster. I'm going to have it all replaced when we get back to the KC area next Fall. Thanks for the input, I was wondering about that.

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie
Rich, wonder if the connections are too rigid on that tank? Someone on here (Orv maybe)had a problem with tank failure, and seems they went back with rubber couplings on the lines to and from the tank. I could see that being a problem, especially on really short pipe runs, with no room to flex.

I have a hunch you may be onto something, too. I have noticed the main dump pipe under the rig can flex. I would think it would move a little while bouncing down the road. The pipe from the black tank connects to that main pipe, so it, too, would be moving. And that pipe from the black tank is glued into place. Maybe the "glue" allows for some flexing without causing a problem but given where ours was cracked I suspect all the movement is the problem. I like the idea of the rubber connection and will have that done this Fall when we have the insulation replaced. Thanks for the idea.

[sreigle]

I saw mention of Calgon when reading through this thread. I'm sure that works well. The Keystone Service Center suggested, actually wrote right on the work order, that we use lemon Pine Sol, saying it would lubricate the walls, making cleaning easier and helping things to slide out. We found Walmart has a store brand equivalent, called "Magnum Power Lemon Cleaner." It costs about a buck for a 32-ounce bottle. I have no idea how much is "enough" so I put in 3 or 4 ounces after every dump. I also don't know how well it works and have no interest in inspecting the inside of the tank to find out. But, it's cheap and it may just be a good thing.

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

On the 06 3400 right were the large pipe goes into the black tank. Mine is in the front compartment entry door side. There is a white ring around the pipe..remove that and the seal is under there. It is the inlet to the black tank. It may be different on other models or years but my guess is that there is a seal at the inlet of the black tank. If it is leaking at the seal it will usually be wet..However if it leaking below the seal you will not be able to see it. Mine is now leaking someehere at the top and we can not see where the leak is. The previous leaks were at the seams of the tank.

Our problem was not at the seal, either. Ours was where the outlet pipe connects. And our problem was nothing to do with driving down the road. It was purely my mistake in closing the dump valve and then letting the black tank flush run for twenty minutes. Or until it overfilled and popped the tank. I do suspect we had a crack at that location anyhow, based solely on frequently noticing bad odors outside while dumping the tank, but not between dumps. So I am just guessing about that.

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by Mudchief

Art, if you ever break down like I have (with children on board) and towed to a dealers lot waiting for Monday morning you will want the following. (1) all holding tanks empty (2) fresh water tank full. I also can not tell any difference towing with the tank full or empty. The MPG don't change however it does take some of the weight off my pin.

I'm with you, Dennis. We sometimes travel several days in a row, stopping only overnight. We often stay off interstates and thus use our own potty rather than rest areas. I'm not interested in dumping every day during those "trips." Plus, dumping a black tank after one day is not a good idea unless I also flush the tank. There's just not enough there to wash the solids out of the tank. Plus those solids have not had much time to break down (road movement helps with that, too). Like you, I cannot tell a mpg difference and the truck doesn't seem to notice the weight difference. Relative to our overall weight, that water weight is pretty insignificant and the convenience factor for us makes it worthwhile. I'm sure this is something everyone has to decide for themselves. For many, it's not worth it. For us, it is. I don't think there is a right or wrong way in this situation.

[DarMar]

"Pine Sol" interesting? Having used Calgon for many years we will have to try this. Pine Sol should be more readily available even at most hardware stores I would think. Good tip, Thanks Steve.

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by DarMar

"Pine Sol" interesting? Having used Calgon for many years we will have to try this. Pine Sol should be more readily available even at most hardware stores I would think. Good tip, Thanks Steve.

I have no idea whether it's better, equal, or worse than Calgon. All I know is that's what Darrell at the Service Center told me to use and he wrote it right on the service order as a "suggestion." It's one of the few times a suggestion turned out to also be cheap. We're using the Walmart store brand I mentioned. 32 ounces for under a dollar.

[mojavemike]

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

I have a hunch you may be onto something, too. I have noticed the main dump pipe under the rig can flex. I would think it would move a little while bouncing down the road. The pipe from the black tank connects to that main pipe, so it, too, would be moving. And that pipe from the black tank is glued into place. Maybe the "glue" allows for some flexing without causing a problem but given where ours was cracked I suspect all the movement is the problem. I like the idea of the rubber connection and will have that done this Fall when we have the insulation replaced. Thanks for the idea.

Ya think they fixed this on the 2010 models? Probably not. $$$$$