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Old 01-28-2018, 12:14 PM   #1
mtlakejim
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Plumbing details

As listed 2018 Montana High Country 381TH.

I know we have discussed this issue to some degree in the past but I am wanting to get into specifics here.

First on the winterizing port. Is there in fact a check valve immediately behind the port that you screw the hose into? If yes, how do you access the wall behind the port to get at it?

What does the winterizing schematic look like between the port and the pump? I have been assuming based on conversations here that it is port/check valve/winterizing valve then pump?

Second on the Black tank wash down. Basically the same questions. Is there a check valve behind the port?

What does the black tank wash down schematic look like between it's port and the black tank. Based on threads on this topic I have been assuming it is port/check valve/vacuume breaker/spray nozzle in tank. If that is the case where is the vac breaker located, how do you access it and is it reaallllyyyyyy necessary? Also what type of spray nozzle is in the tank?

I setup the 12 volt water pump to supply the black tank wash line. I have noticed that it doesn't seem to put much volume or pressure to the tank based on what I see coming out of the discharge lines. I'm not sure if that is because the check valve is restricting flow, or the pump just doesn't put out that much volume or pressure. I do admit that I didn't try to wash the tank with a hose hooked to city water first to compare . Thoughts?
 
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:35 PM   #2
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I can't answer all of your questions but I can say that if you hook up to city water and run that into your black tank flush, you will hear and ultimately see a significant amount of water flowing. I have yet to do this on my current rig but on my previous SOB it sounded like there was a shower in the black tank. That's the reason it is suggested to not flush your black tank unless your black tank dump valve is open.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:59 PM   #3
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The check valve for the black tank is usually located behind the vanity in the bathroom. there should be a red and a blue line. If there are 2 clear or white lines pull them down and the valve will be at the top of those. They have a habit of causing problems so a lot of people remove them and use an external check valve. As far as schematics go lots of luck.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by GLS3950 View Post
The check valve for the black tank is usually located behind the vanity in the bathroom. there should be a red and a blue line. If there are 2 clear or white lines pull them down and the valve will be at the top of those. They have a habit of causing problems so a lot of people remove them and use an external check valve. As far as schematics go lots of luck.
Well ok not a schematic per sec. Just does anyone know the layout?

Are you talking about the anti siphon valve or a check valve behind the vanity? I would expect that would be an anti siphon valve which has to be higher than the tank and other lines....
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:33 PM   #5
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This is the layout, looking at the back of the convenience center wall. The access to the rear of that wall is simply just removing the screws from the trim strip on the front of the wall, and then the screws actually holding the plastic partition to the floor and a couple on the vertical edges. I have not had a need to winterize, but created this line drawing a couple years ago when a plumbing issue came up, and I had the time to draw it out.
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:40 PM   #6
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Yep that looks like it. FYI, I started a new thread with pictures of my setup (I just got my camper back and it was finally warm enough to go tinker with it). I took some pictures and have comments there.


One thing I haven't found traced all the way out yet is the black tank flush line. I want to see if like some people say, it has a anti siphon valve on it. That would seem like a total waste of plumbing but I know how government regulations are on such matters too.....
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:46 PM   #7
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One other question, is it possible, depending on position of the fresh water fill valve to pump antifreeze into the fresh water tank instead of to the faucets?
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunnerTR21 View Post
I can't answer all of your questions but I can say that if you hook up to city water and run that into your black tank flush, you will hear and ultimately see a significant amount of water flowing. I have yet to do this on my current rig but on my previous SOB it sounded like there was a shower in the black tank. That's the reason it is suggested to not flush your black tank unless your black tank dump valve is open.
RoadRunnerTR21, be careful hoking up to city water and running that to your black tank flush!!! Without connecting a water pressure regulator, you can overpower the anti-siphon valve with too much pressure and cause the valve to fail. And, if you have it in the cabinet below the bathroom sink you run the risk of having your DW come out of the 5er yelling "there's water leaking in the bathroom coming out of the cabinet"!! Don't laugh, I speak from first hand experience. Then, you will have the choice of replacing or bypassing the anti-siphon valve.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:52 PM   #9
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I can see where it would be easy to pressure up the black tank if you didn't have the drain open when you were flushing it! And that water in the cabinet is just another good reason to do completely away with that anti Siphon valve! Now a pressure relief valve on the black tank that was under the trailer? That might be worthwhile.....
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlakejim View Post
As listed 2018 Montana High Country 381TH.

I know we have discussed this issue to some degree in the past but I am wanting to get into specifics here.

First on the winterizing port. Is there in fact a check valve immediately behind the port that you screw the hose into? If yes, how do you access the wall behind the port to get at it?

What does the winterizing schematic look like between the port and the pump? I have been assuming based on conversations here that it is port/check valve/winterizing valve then pump?

Second on the Black tank wash down. Basically the same questions. Is there a check valve behind the port?

What does the black tank wash down schematic look like between it's port and the black tank. Based on threads on this topic I have been assuming it is port/check valve/vacuume breaker/spray nozzle in tank. If that is the case where is the vac breaker located, how do you access it and is it reaallllyyyyyy necessary? Also what type of spray nozzle is in the tank?

I setup the 12 volt water pump to supply the black tank wash line. I have noticed that it doesn't seem to put much volume or pressure to the tank based on what I see coming out of the discharge lines. I'm not sure if that is because the check valve is restricting flow, or the pump just doesn't put out that much volume or pressure. I do admit that I didn't try to wash the tank with a hose hooked to city water first to compare . Thoughts?
Yes, there is a check valve on my winterizing port (see photo). It is the same as the city water connection check valve and built into the fitting.

I'm not sure if there is a "check valve" on the black tank flush; I have not looked. There is an "anti siphon" device; mine is in the cabinet under the bath room sink. I just replaced the cheap plastic one with a brass one (see photo). I don't write the codes, but those that do feel it is necessary.

I doubt that your fresh water pump would put out enough volume or pressure to adequately flush the black tank.

I have a rough draft of my plumbing; it's on my "to do" list to draw it up properly. Bob's looks right.
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:38 PM   #11
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Yeah I was worried about that 12 volt pump not putting out enough volume and pressure. But there is a very good reason to use it. I have found on most dump stations that IF they have a hose for flushing it almost always has a crushed end (apparently most folks only use the hose to wash out their sewer dump hoses and or they are very careless and run over the end of the flush hoses--either way the parks don't seem to have any inclination to provide hoses with good screw ends). That forces you to remove their hose and install your own which takes time which is not good when you have several folks behind you at the station. And then there are the places that don't have a flush hose at all, have those odd spring loaded contraptions with open ends or the spigot doesn't work. Having a little water in your fresh water tank and simply turning on the pump and opening the flush valve was a very appealing, faster and less messy solution. Its a small thing but I thought it was worth a try......
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Former StClairSailor View Post
RoadRunnerTR21, be careful hoking up to city water and running that to your black tank flush!!! Without connecting a water pressure regulator, you can overpower the anti-siphon valve with too much pressure and cause the valve to fail. And, if you have it in the cabinet below the bathroom sink you run the risk of having your DW come out of the 5er yelling "there's water leaking in the bathroom coming out of the cabinet"!! Don't laugh, I speak from first hand experience. Then, you will have the choice of replacing or bypassing the anti-siphon valve.
Thanks for the heads up. I do use a pressure regulator but I believe I am going to look at this anti-siphon valve situation. When did they start using the anti-siphon valves? I don't seem to recall having one in my last 5er.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by RoadRunnerTR21 View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I do use a pressure regulator but I believe I am going to look at this anti-siphon valve situation. When did they start using the anti-siphon valves? I don't seem to recall having one in my last 5er.
There was one in my '07. Forest River put it inside a wall.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:45 PM   #14
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Maybe that's why I didn't see it in my 04 Mckenzie Medallion.
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Old 01-30-2018, 06:48 PM   #15
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Those valves are junk and just waiting for an flood to happen if they fail. A lot of people including myself just simply remove them and connect the pipes together. IMHO they are not needed and are only there because of some government mandated regulation.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mtlakejim View Post
Yep that looks like it. FYI, I started a new thread with pictures of my setup (I just got my camper back and it was finally warm enough to go tinker with it). I took some pictures and have comments there.


One thing I haven't found traced all the way out yet is the black tank flush line. I want to see if like some people say, it has a anti siphon valve on it. That would seem like a total waste of plumbing but I know how government regulations are on such matters too.....
The only valve in the black tank flush is the one mounted above a level at least above the rim of the toilet. It is not truly a check valve, but is an vacuum/check valve. When I flush the tank, the vent valve is closed, and when done and I disconnect the hose, the valve opens and the water in the flush line on the tank side of the valve drains to the tank, and the water on the inlet side of the valve drains out of the flush port so there is very little water left in the line when you are done.

THIS IS THE MANUFACTURERS DESCRIPTION OF THE VALVE:

Installed between the water hose connection and the tank flusher itself, this item protects harmful bacteria and waste from entering the hose or water supply system. Meets IAPMO standards and is required for tank flush equipment on all OEM installations. ASSE 1001-02 requires that it be installed 6" or more above the highest point of any item connected to the waste tank that the flusher is installed in.
571-Vac-Chk-A - Vacuum Breaker - Check Valve

https://www.makariosrv.com/vacuum-br...571-vac-chk-a/
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:12 PM   #17
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Here is the drawing of my convenience center plumbing. As Bob noted, there is not a check valve in the black tank flush line.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:04 PM   #18
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Just like I stated, its a government mandated devise that is it protect us from ourselves. Remove it before it floods your camper.

There are many member here that have had this happen to them.(just saying)
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Old 04-15-2020, 05:33 PM   #19
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I have water seeping out of the belly of my 2017 Montana 3721RL. It is about 3-4 feet towards the front of the rv from the convenience center. There are no leaks in the storage area where the water pipes are visable, yet water is coming out from under the corregated underbelly covering. Any thoughts? Does anyone have a drawing or pictures of how the tanks are laid out and physically piped on the underbelly? Schematics only show the flow diagrams - I want to know the physical layout, so I can tell what is under the area where the water is dripping down from...
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Old 04-15-2020, 05:50 PM   #20
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Scottz, I am curious, is that schematic just for that particular model or a design for all models?
Thanks
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