Disc brake fail

[Kevinpark]

In late February I had disk brakes installed on our Montana 330, by Performance braking. Performance braking sent me the parts and made the arrangements to have an installer come out and do the work. The brakes stared leaking fluid in late April. I had a complete brake failure with all the fluid on the ground. As a result I had no brakes. I took the rig to a shop very close to where was I was stranded. Fortunately, this is a shop I had other mechanical work done and was very happy with their work. They said that they could fix the brakes. I called performance braking to make sure the parts and labor were covered by the warranty before any work was done to the rig. Michael at Performance braking confirmed that the parts and labor were within the warranty. I was told to have the work done and to send them the receipt for reimbursement. To make a long story short, the repair required more than just the replacement of the cracked bleeder valves and the replacement of an additional leaking hose to the pump. The bleeder valves were glued into the calipers. The shop could not get the valves out of two, of the four, calipers without damaging the units. At each step in the repair process, Performance Brake and Michael was informed what was happening. The shop has the e-mails to prove it. The final bill came to $1052. When the bill was sent to performance braking they said that Dexter would only reimburse me for half of the bill. They said I was over charged by the shop. The work could have been done in half the time, and on and on. The shop called Michael and they confirmed that the time worked and billed for was correct. California Labor rates are not cheep. Michael then said that I should have contacted Dexter for approval. Then I was told, you should have contacted the installer, which I did by the way. The installers told me to contact Performance Braking. At every step of the repair process, Performance Braking gave me the impression that they were on board and that the correct steps and approvals were being followed.

Bottom line I would not work with this company again. To be fair Performance braking was responsive and sent the needed parts when the shop when requested them. But the merry-go-round of its not our responsibility is very disappointing.

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by Kevinpark

In late February I had disk brakes installed on our Montana 330, by Performance braking. Performance braking sent me the parts and made the arrangements to have an installer come out and do the work. The brakes stared leaking fluid in late April. I had a complete brake failure with all the fluid on the ground. As a result I had no brakes. I took the rig to a shop very close to where was I was stranded. Fortunately, this is a shop I had other mechanical work done and was very happy with their work. They said that they could fix the brakes. I called performance braking to make sure the parts and labor were covered by the warranty before any work was done to the rig. Michael at Performance braking confirmed that the parts and labor were within the warranty. I was told to have the work done and to send them the receipt for reimbursement. To make a long story short, the repair required more than just the replacement of the cracked bleeder valves and the replacement of an additional leaking hose to the pump. The bleeder valves were glued into the calipers. The shop could not get the valves out of two, of the four, calipers without damaging the units. At each step in the repair process, Performance Brake and Michael was informed what was happening. The shop has the e-mails to prove it. The final bill came to $1052. When the bill was sent to performance braking they said that Dexter would only reimburse me for half of the bill. They said I was over charged by the shop. The work could have been done in half the time, and on and on. The shop called Michael and they confirmed that the time worked and billed for was correct. California Labor rates are not cheep. Michael then said that I should have contacted Dexter for approval. Then I was told, you should have contacted the installer, which I did by the way. The installers told me to contact Performance Braking. At every step of the repair process, Performance Braking gave me the impression that they were on board and that the correct steps and approvals were being followed.

Bottom line I would not work with this company again. To be fair Performance braking was responsive and sent the needed parts when the shop when requested them. But the merry-go-round of its not our responsibility is very disappointing.

I ordered my kit from performance. It’s only been on about a month but I did the install. It sounds like it was a parts failure not a poor install. At that point all performance is is the middle man between you and the parts manufacturer. In my instance I have Kodiak brakes and calipers not the dexter/Titan version. On the kodiak calipers everything comes apart with the bleeder screw I only know that because I took mine out just for the heck of it because I have had a previous caliper with a cross threaded bleeder screw and it was a pain. The previous caliper was not on a part supplied by performance trailer braking just to be clear. Kind of a bummer on your end but you can always contact dexter directly and see what they say.

[Kevinpark]

It really was a little of both, a parts failure and and install failure. According to the shop the bleeder valves were cracked and there was also a bad crimp on the hose to the pump. This should of been a straight forward fix, until the shop discovered the bleeder valves glued to the calipers. After some time they were able to get two of the valves out without damaging the calipers, the other two not so lucky. I called Dexter and they are also refusing to honor the warranty. Very disappointed.

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by Kevinpark

It really was a little of both, a parts failure and and install failure. According to the shop the bleeder valves were cracked and there was also a bad crimp on the hose to the pump. This should of been a straight forward fix, until the shop discovered the bleeder valves glued to the calipers. After some time they were able to get two of the valves out without damaging the calipers, the other two not so lucky. I called Dexter and they are also refusing to honor the warranty. Very disappointed.

Just out of curiosity I pulled my warranty paperwork. Mine says 5 years for calipers but they cap it at the cost of the product and I see no mention of labor being covered by Dexter. Brake rite controller is 1 year but again no labor. Kodiak says 3 years for e coat and 6 for stainless still no labor. Interesting that anyone would say labor would be covered unless Performance gives a warranty on the labor aspect.

[rohrmann]

My experience is totally opposite from this thread. I had the system installed a little over a year ago. Was very happy with the system and how well the brakes worked. Shortly after having the brakes installed, I notice brake fluid leaking out from under the white cover of the Brakrite actuator. I contacted Michael and he had a new actuator sent to his installer in Arizona who came to our location and replaced it. The first trip, only about two hours to Quartzsite, and the new actuator is leaking. Michael and Kelly showed up to put on a presentation at the circle, and I showed him the leak. Before we left Quartzsite, he again had his installer replace the actuator. This time, it hasn’t leaked a drop, and I never had an issue about warranty. All this to say, most people I have talked to that have had PTB install their brakes have had nothing but good experiences with their installs.

[Kevinpark]

The warranty does cover labor but only for a few months. After that the warranty is for parts only. My biggest complaint was that I was under the impression that I was doing everything right and was in contact with the correct people to get the rig fixed under the warranty. If they want to send out an installer to fix the rig they should have told me. If they wanted the rig at another shop they should have told me. There was a cap on the amount of labor that they would cover they should have told me. But to reject the half the bill after the fact is not acceptable.

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by Kevinpark

The warranty does cover labor but only for a few months. After that the warranty is for parts only. My biggest complaint was that I was under the impression that I was doing everything right and was in contact with the correct people to get the rig fixed under the warranty. If they want to send out an installer to fix the rig they should have told me. If they wanted the rig at another shop they should have told me. There was a cap on the amount of labor that they would cover they should have told me. But to reject the half the bill after the fact is not acceptable.

I can understand your complaint. I wonder where the shop time would have fallen if they had just pulled the bad parts and put on the new parts instead of trying to repair. It sounds like there was a fair amount of time spent trying to repair stuck bleeder valves.

[speedster100]

Just a question, how did the initial installer bleed the air from the system after the 1st install ?? One would think that they would have had to bleed the air from the calipers after the initial install as is the case anytime you install calipers or new lines etc regardless of vehicle or trailer with hydraulic brake systems ... ..... just sayin

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by speedster100

Just a question, how did the initial installer bleed the air from the system after the 1st install ?? One would think that they would have had to bleed the air from the calipers after the initial install as is the case anytime you install calipers or new lines etc regardless of vehicle or trailer with hydraulic brake systems ... ..... just sayin

On my Kodiaks then bleeder screw is two parts maybe the part that leaked is the part not loosened to bleed the brakes but the part screwed into the caliper that then has the bleeder screw screwed into it.

[Kevinpark]

From what I was told at the shop the bleeders are two parts. The part in the calipers were glued in. The bleeding valve part was ok except they were cracked and leaking. To get the bleeder assembly out they had to extract two bleeders out of the calipers. The other two bleeders they were eventually able to break them out without damaging the calipers. Anyway you look at it was a time consuming job.

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by Kevinpark

From what I was told at the shop the bleeders are two parts. The part in the calipers were glued in. The bleeding valve part was ok except they were cracked and leaking. To get the bleeder assembly out they had to extract two bleeders out of the calipers. The other two bleeders they were eventually able to break them out without damaging the calipers. Anyway you look at it was a time consuming job.

Personally if I had to do it I wouldn’t have wasted time trying to get the bleeders out. I would have simply emailed performance or the manufacturer and ask for 4 new caliper assemblies and switched those out completely. Not sure what the shop time on replacing a loaded caliper is but I have to guess it’s less than an hour per wheel. So maybe 5 hours shop time between diagnostic and repair. Chances are that’s probably high since getting most calipers changed on a car takes 1.1-1.5 hours per 2 calipers in my experience. I’d bet the attempt to repair them was more than 5 hours of shop time and after reading the Dexter warranty I am not surprised they only would cover half. I do understand the OP frustration from the sounds of it things could have been better on communication and since it sounds like four calipers were eventually replaced or at least 2 were perhaps that should have been the initial solutions.

[432bartman]

Is the disc brake conversion worth the money over the electric ones? With my truck brake control set at 6 and the manual control I have, those suckers grab hard. To Kevinpark, I hope you get reimbursed for all the repair work you had done. I'm sure that brake kit, and installation was expensive, and to have a complete failure, they need to do what's right. You're lucky you weren't going down a 6% grade when that failure occurred.

[rohrmann]

Originally Posted by 432bartman

Is the disc brake conversion worth the money over the electric ones? With my truck brake control set at 6 and the manual control I have, those suckers grab hard. To Kevinpark, I hope you get reimbursed for all the repair work you had done. I'm sure that brake kit, and installation was expensive, and to have a complete failure, they need to do what's right. You're lucky you weren't going down a 6% grade when that failure occurred.

Are you saying the brakes grab hard with just applying the truck brakes or when you manually operate the trailer brake control lever?

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by 432bartman

Is the disc brake conversion worth the money over the electric ones? With my truck brake control set at 6 and the manual control I have, those suckers grab hard. To Kevinpark, I hope you get reimbursed for all the repair work you had done. I'm sure that brake kit, and installation was expensive, and to have a complete failure, they need to do what's right. You're lucky you weren't going down a 6% grade when that failure occurred.

Worth every penny of the $2000 dollars the kit costs

[MARK A]

Stop your trailer.com

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by MARK A

Stop your trailer.com

The kits from what I saw were not much different between performance and stopyour trailer.

[MARK A]

They are nearly identical, they just have a better customer service.



Mark

[bleedmichigan]

Originally Posted by MARK A

They are nearly identical, they just have a better customer service.



Mark

When I was ordering my kit I contacted both companies and while the response from stopyourtrailer was good I eventually went with performance because they were able to ship in the timeframe I needed not a week later. I feel they both have good customer service and likely the experience by OP is a one off.

[Dave W]

I have to add my $.02 to this discussion:


1 - Yes, this brake mod is well orth the dollar outlay.


2 - No way was that bleeder glued to the adapter. The original installer may have over tightened it AFTER bleeding the brakes but there would have been no way (or reason) to successfully glue it in place AFTER bleeding the brakes. To crack a new bleeder, you really have to use a bunch of force. Even a rusted in place bleeder wont break easily. The adapter may have been Lock Tite installed though as I believe that adaper is metric (caliper) to SAE.


3 - Why weren't the damaged bleeders simply replaced. There are inexpensive repair kits available - this just AMAZON, but NAPA and other auto parts stores have similar - https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-123...5762267&sr=8-4. If the broken bleeder is stuck in place, a little heat and an E-Z Out works well



4 - The OP got shafted by the repair facility in that they 'shot gunned' the repair after an untrained/unqualified tech screwed things up.

[mazboy]

hard to read your one paragraph but you should have dealt with the installer in my opinion.


regardless, if performance said that they would reimburse you the quoted amount you should of had some sort of verifciation.


and i am confused with why you didn't have just the minimum done and returned to the orginial installor.


miscommunication it appears.