Kitchen Slide binding and crooked - Montana Owners Club

MaryPucker · 07-29-2019, 06:16 PM

The kitchen slide on our 2014 3100RL just started bindind and going in and out crooked. It is a hydraulic slide. We have it retracted now. The rear of the slide is fully retracted. The front of the slide is not. There is about a 2 inch difference at the bottom of the slide.

We are new to all of this. Any ideas?

**DQDick** · 07-29-2019, 07:08 PM

Your slide is out of adjustment and since it happened all at once something probably broke. I would get it to a good dealer that knows how to adjust slides. If you don't know who that might be, call Keystone Customer Service and ask for a recommendation.

rohrmann · 07-29-2019, 07:48 PM

We had an issue several months ago with our large curb side slide going in and out crooked. Nothing was broken, but I finally figured out the gear packs were worn, allowing the rack to jump the gear teeth. I ordered two new gear packs from Lippert and replaced them prior to moving to the Coos Bay rally. We arrived at Becky's Dad's property a couple weeks ago, a difficult location to pull the rig into, and when operating the slides, the rear street side slide would not go out and was crooked. I finally discovered the one gear pack had several broken teeth and was skipping on the rack. On our rig, the gear has 18 teeth. New gear packs, part number 324869, have 15 teeth, so you also have to order an 18 tooth gear, part number 122739, if you need them. I was able to cut the roll pins off the curb side gear packs and swap gears when I did that repair. The photos are of the broken gear pack, and a new gear pack along with the 18 tooth gear that will replace the 15 tooth gear. I guess Lippert went with a coarser gear on newer installations, just not sure when. This is the link to the the parts list for the slides:

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws..._component.pdf

Slide out service manual:

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001617.pdf

Slide out Owners Manual:

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001616.pdf

If you are not sure which gears you have, this is the link to the Lippert sheet that shows how to determine which gears you have:

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001862.pdf

MaryPucker · 07-30-2019, 06:15 PM

It is indeed a gear with missing/worn teeth. Thank you.

Mikendebbie · 07-30-2019, 08:04 PM

Rohrmann - there is another current thread about lubricating the gear...I read it earlier today and now I can’t find it...but this one sort of ties in. I went out and looked at my gears. I have 2 hydraulic slides (4 gears). Only one gear lines up perfect with the gear rail...in other words 100% of the gears line up with the rail perfectly. The other 3 maybe 50% of the gears contact the teeth on the rails. Is this normal and within tolerance? Is there any adjustment to make all 4 gears line up 100% with the teeth on the rails? I hope I am explaining the situation correctly. See the pic below for “50% gear teeth alignment”.

Now to jump threads and the lubrication question...before you loosen the bolts - do the slides need to be retracted or extended (mine is extended in the pic). And do I understand correctly from the Lippert documentation that you spray the points with dry silicone lube? I like your point about attracting dirt if oil is used.

rohrmann · 07-30-2019, 09:31 PM

On the old gear packs, the gear only engages a six sided spot on the shaft about the width of the gear itself, and the wheels have a round hole that turns on the shaft on either side of the gear. On the new gear packs, the hex part of the shaft is all the way through both the rollers and the gear in the middle. Not sure which is better, just am observation. It almost looks like the rollers are worn to the point they can't keep the gear centered. I would be planning on replacing them before you have an issue. It's hard to believe that these parts on your rig being that new would be worn that much. When I replaced gear packs, I had the slides extended and used a hydraulic jack near the outer end of the slide tubes to lift just enough that the rollers would turn. If your gear packs are the newer type with the 15 tooth gears and have the hex part of the shaft long enough that the rollers have a hex hole that engages the hex shaft, you won't be able to rotate them, but just getting them lose would make lubing them easier. I would be wire brushing the rack to get rid of some of the rust. It also appears there is a pretty big gap between the gear and the right hand roller, which is allowing the gear to not be centered on the rack.

Mikendebbie · 07-31-2019, 05:46 AM

If I tighten the nuts on the right side - will that close the gap on the rollers and align the gears over the rail teeth?

I assume that if that is true I would need to lift the outside edge of the slide out as you describe?

McRod · 07-31-2019, 09:56 AM

When, not if, you replace your gear packs, I would recommend getting the lippert HD gear packs vs their standard Teflon packs.

Here is a link from etrailer. You can order also direct from lippert.

18 tooth gears were used prior to Oct 2013, 15 tooth gears used after. Just count yours on the rail to verify. The rail will have either 4 teeth per inch (18tooth) or 3 teeth per inch (15 tooth).

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...BoCaTwQAvD_BwE

rohrmann · 07-31-2019, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRod

When, not if, you replace your gear packs, I would recommend getting the lippert HD gear packs vs their standard Teflon packs.

Here is a link from etrailer. You can order also direct from lippert.

18 tooth gears were used prior to Oct 2013, 15 tooth gears used after. Just count yours on the rail to verify. The rail will have either 4 teeth per inch (18tooth) or 3 teeth per inch (15 tooth).

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...BoCaTwQAvD_BwE

I'm not sure the rollers are the issue. I have not had any problem with the rollers failing. The gears are the same for both the standard duty and the heavy duty gear packs, and by introducing a steel wheel instead of the plastic wheel, you are likely to just add noise, corrosion, and wear to the square tube, where the plastic wheels won't damage the tubes. I'm just glad that if anything is going to fail, that it's the gears instead of the rack.

McRod · 07-31-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohrmann

I'm not sure the rollers are the issue. I have not had any problem with the rollers failing. The gears are the same for both the standard duty and the heavy duty gear packs, and by introducing a steel wheel instead of the plastic wheel, you are likely to just add noise, corrosion, and wear to the square tube, where the plastic wheels won't damage the tubes. I'm just glad that if anything is going to fail, that it's the gears instead of the rack.

Your right, the rollers are not the issue. It's the gears, which is why they went to a 15 tooth design. If you have an 18 tooth, to change to the stronger 15 tooth requires changing both the gear pack and the rail. The brass rollers don't rust and their is no noise, and they roll on the flat surface of the rail.

Mikendebbie · 08-01-2019, 05:40 AM

I took pics of all of my gears.
First two pics show gears for the big dining table slide. One gear lines up perfectly on top of the rail teeth.
Last two pics show the gears for the smaller TV/stove/fridge slide. Neither gear pack lines up very well over the rail.

1. If I tighten the nuts on the gear pack will it affect how the teeth line up on the rail?
2. Is silicone dry lube the correct choice to use on the gear pack bearing (like the Lippert manual says)?

psomers · 08-01-2019, 06:58 AM

My pinion gear also has only about 50% contact with rack on several gear packs. Noticed when unit was still pretty new so don't think wear is the problem. Never figured out what it would take to fix. Haven't checked but guess mine would be 18 tooth. Going to 15 tooth would make teeth a little bigger. More teeth the smaller they would have to be.
If gear is the problem, why not just replace the gear. Save about $60 per gear pack. Noticed etrailer has just the gear.
As stated earlier, glad it is pinion and not rack.

McRod · 08-01-2019, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

I took pics of all of my gears...
1. If I tighten the nuts on the gear pack will it affect how the teeth line up on the rail?

2. Is silicone dry lube the correct choice to use on the gear pack bearing (like the Lippert manual says)?

1. No.

2. Use this to lube it.
You can get it at Walmart, home Depot, etc. https://www.homedepot.com/p/WD-40-3-...0084/309589238

laverdur · 08-04-2019, 04:17 PM

I had trouble with my large slide being crooked when moving in/out. The rear of the slide always moved before the front of the slide. Found three problems. 1) the slide was not centered in the opening, resulting in excessive friction on the seals at the end with the smallest clearance; 2) probably due to the increased friction, the roller/gear assembly on the driven end of the slide (the rear) was one tooth out of sync with the front roller/gear assembly; 3) the drive shaft on the driven end was split so that when it tried to drive the passive roller/gear assembly (front) the split in the shaft would open up before it had enough tension to make the front roller/gear assembly move. Solutions: 1) center the slide in the opening. Best done with the slide partially open. To move the slide, the bolts at the end of the arms that control lateral adjustment need to be loosened so that the slide arms remain centered in the tubes when the slide moves. Don't forget to tighten these bolts when done or the slide will move again; 2) Open the slide fully and jack up the slide arm gently until the round gear is free of the pinion. Then using a large screwdriver, pry against the round gear with the tip of the screwdriver in the teeth of the pinion such that it moves the side in the correct direction to get the teeth on the round gear where they belong; 3) remove the drive shaft and repair or replace it. I had mine repaired to better than new condition. You will have to remove one of the roller/gear assemblies to remove the drive shaft. Since I had to remove one roller/gear assembly, I decided to remove and replace both of them with the newer type. All is well now.

glendodom · 08-04-2019, 08:44 PM

I have a 2018 3721RL which about a month ago got out of track and was making a loud popping sound like jumping gear teeth. They first thought it was a gear replacement issue but once they got the gear in and replaced it, it continued the popping sound. After lots more extensive time they finally figured out one of the hydraulic motors was bulged out causing the gear to not match up. Ultimately they ended up replacing both hydraulic motors on the frig slide out.

As far as the question about lubrication of the slide rails, I had always been told to lubricate the slide rails with the special rail lube spray. After this event when I was going through the LCI in rail slide manual I ran across guidance that specifically says "Do not lube the rail" only apply light oil to 6 designated spots on the gear shaft and gear areas as designated on page 12 of the LCI In-Rail Slide Manual (attached extract).

I asked my RV dealer shop manager and got this puzzled look saying he hadn't ever seen the guidance and thought you should lub the rails. He ended up advising to follow the LCI guidance.

prndl · 08-04-2019, 09:13 PM

This is not rocket science...Lubrication allows a reduction in friction, Great for bearings, not good for gears used for alignment. If you want your gear pack to jump a tooth or more go ahead and lube it. If you want some friction to keep the gears aligned then follow the instructions and DO NOT LUBE the gears. I don't care what the "tech" says. If you lube them they are prone to slippage and mis-alignment.

EmptyNesterRV · 08-05-2019, 07:54 AM

I have the same model except mine is a 2015. On our first outing with the new to us camper we got the cabinet door caught in kitchen slide and thru the slide out of wack. Same place you are talking about. We had broken a couple teeth on the rear gear. It is 15tooth. I ordered the heavy duty packs and changed both. Bring the slide about half way out I had a Jack in place on the ends but just for safety purposes. Once you get the gear pack undone from the front where you are off just push the slide in and then measure both ends. Replace both gear packs, cost me 180 dollars from lippert off amazon. 2 1/2 by 2 1/2. You measure your bar that slides in with the teeth. It took my neighbor and I about 45 minutes, the dealer wanted like 1200 dollars. Then check your bar where the teeth broke and you might have some sharp teeth that gotten eaten up a bit, file them down slightly and measure your sides again. Hope this helps.

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