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Old 07-05-2022, 01:42 PM   #1
Gubs
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surge protecter

I'm sure this question has been asked many times, however I've not seen it so here goes:

I was told that the 2020 Montana 3121RL comes with a internal surge protecter, however I cannot find it and therefore questions arise.

1) If it does have one where would it be located?
2) If not, what type of surge protecter is best for this rig?
3) Hardwired or portable which would be best?
 
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Old 07-05-2022, 01:55 PM   #2
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I hope someone else jumps in here with better info. I understand that the surge protection is built in with the ATS. The ATS is located behind the panel in the basement. In my unit the ATS is located just below the bathroom floor. My unit has a panel next to (left side) the iCommand system unit in the basement that had 4 screws in it. I don't have an opinion on questions 2 & 3.
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:26 PM   #3
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Larry,

Here is a thread the addressed the same issue. You really want an EMS vs a surge protector. Either a portable or built in will do the job although each has its pros and cons.

https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=85927
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Old 07-05-2022, 04:00 PM   #4
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Don’t make the same mistake I made and get a surge protector. You need a EMS.
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Old 07-06-2022, 09:55 AM   #5
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:08 AM   #6
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Gubs, your 2020 came with a PD ATS with EMS (high voltage, Low voltage, open neutral, no ground reverse polarity, etc) if it is the Legacy model. Unfortunately, many of the PD ATS units have failed in that they won’t latch in under lower power. Ours worked fine but didn’t connect on generator. The result was we weren’t charging when we thought we were. If you do not have a generator on-board (as in installed via generator prep), you don’t need that ATS. We replaced ours with the Hughes Watchdog. Two reasons I believe this is the best EMS. In addition to guarding against the aforementioned issues, it is Bluetooth and the surge module is user replaceable. With the other leading brand, they will replace the unit for free but you need to send it in and will be without it until it’s returned. Hope this helps.
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Old 07-08-2022, 02:20 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the responses, this is the one I went with! EPO is the same as EMS just manufacture jargon or so I was told. I will be padlocking this one to the shore power stand and standing guard over it all night with the AK-47 handy, they are expensive but cheaper than replacing all the appliances in the rig. Thanks again for the help!!!!
Hughes Autoformers PWD50EPO Power Watchdog Smart Surge Protector + EPO - 50 Amp
Brand: Hughes Autoformers
4.8 out of 5 stars 41 ratings
from $287.18 inc. tax + shipping | 6 answered questions

10 Price Changes
-22% $247.99$247.99
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Old 07-08-2022, 02:40 PM   #8
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Long story short, I have a 30 amp Hughes and I really enjoyed it, until Hughes did an upgtrade on their application, and then the Blue Tooth read outs on my phone never worked again. The unit is good, and does it's job, but I've never been able to get the app work on my phone after that upgrade.

I have a 50 amp Progressive (portable EMS) is use on my Fifth Wheel. But the 30 amp Hughes comes in handy for those rare occasions we are not on a 50 amp site.
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Old 07-08-2022, 03:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchmenSport View Post
Long story short, I have a 30 amp Hughes and I really enjoyed it, until Hughes did an upgtrade on their application, and then the Blue Tooth read outs on my phone never worked again. The unit is good, and does it's job, but I've never been able to get the app work on my phone after that upgrade.

I have a 50 amp Progressive (portable EMS) is use on my Fifth Wheel. But the 30 amp Hughes comes in handy for those rare occasions we are not on a 50 amp site.
Well, I hope this works for me, it was a bit cheaper than the progressive unit and the reviews were good so I went with Hughes. Thanks again for the advise and hope things are well with you and yours!!
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Old 07-09-2022, 06:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchmenSport View Post
Long story short, I have a 30 amp Hughes and I really enjoyed it, until Hughes did an upgtrade on their application, and then the Blue Tooth read outs on my phone never worked again. The unit is good, and does it's job, but I've never been able to get the app work on my phone after that upgrade.

I have a 50 amp Progressive (portable EMS) is use on my Fifth Wheel. But the 30 amp Hughes comes in handy for those rare occasions we are not on a 50 amp site.
I bit the bullet right from the get go and installed a hardwired South Guard 35550 with remote display before we ever took our fiver on its first trip.



Question concerning 30 service. Any brand of 50 amp EMS affords the same protection when one only has 30 amp service available don't they? Never thought about it until reading through this thread.
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Old 07-09-2022, 07:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-CI View Post
...
Question concerning 30 service. ...
I have read on different forums that folks will plug in the 30-50 amp dog bone adapter from a 30 amp electric service, then plug in their 50 amp EMS. (some portable, some hard-wired) and they say it works just fine.

In theory, yes, the 50 amp EMS would protect the camper plugged into a 30 amp supply. I've never tried it to see what happens and no clue what actually happens if there is a power shift of some sort. Considering I already had the 30 amp Hughes, to me, it just makes more logical sense to use the 30 amp protector when hooked up to a 30 amp service, since the most power I'll ever get out of that power supply is 30 amps anyway.

But to answer your question? I really do not know. I've never tried it. I do know that my Progressive portable EMS does not work when I plug it into my two generators run in parallel for 50 amp. There's no ground. The EMS will not pass power to the trailer. And I'm not electrically proficient enough to fiddle with the generators to fake out the ground. But, my generators already have their own built in power management system, so really do not need to use the EMS when running the generators.

What you need to do, after you receive your EMS, Hughes, protector, experiment with it when you get a chance and figure out what it's limitations are (if it has any). Take a few minutes when you are at a campground that has 30 and 50 amp service and switch everything back and forth. The most that will happen is, the "protector" will simply shut down and not pass power to the trailer. Then you'll know what to expect if you are ever caught in a campground with limited service (or plugged into someone's house).
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Old 07-09-2022, 07:46 AM   #12
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From Hughes Watchdog website:
"Q. Can I Use Adapters?

We often get asked, “Can I use a dogbone adapter or power adapter if I have a 50 amp coach and there are only 30 amp pedestals at the campground I’m visiting?”

The answer is “Yes.” You can use an adapter with any of our equipment, whether it’s the Autoformer or the Power Watchdog to successfully connect to the park pole that’s available.

If you have a 30 amp coach and 50 amp pole, there is one thing you do want to watch out for: you want to make sure that your main breaker is functioning properly. The main breaker is the only thing that’s going to limit your coach to receiving 30 amps. The pole could supply you 50 amps and if your coach is rated for 30, your main breaker is your only source of protection in that regard.

If you have a 50 amp coach and all there is available is a 30 amp pole, dogbone adapters are not a problem; you just are limited to 30 amps max, and the breaker on the pole will pop at 30 amps."
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Old 07-09-2022, 08:02 AM   #13
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Thanks guys. I had just assumed this is the way the EMS system would work not matter the brand name. This thread got me to think about it though. Like Dutchman pointed out, wouldn't hurt to run some real world scenarios in lieu of just assuming. Really don't want my assumptions to make an azz out of me.
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Old 07-09-2022, 09:03 AM   #14
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I have the Progressive system and have used it many times on a 30 amp service. One particular campground we stay at is notorious for low power. The Progressive works wonderfully to cut our power when the service drop below 104V.

P.S. It happens so often that we just run off the inverter and 12V (water heater, refer, etc) and only use the shore power to charge the batteries. And since this is on the Oregon coast no AC is required.
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Old 07-13-2022, 01:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubs View Post
I'm sure this question has been asked many times, however I've not seen it so here goes:

I was told that the 2020 Montana 3121RL comes with a internal surge protecter, however I cannot find it and therefore questions arise.

1) If it does have one where would it be located?
2) If not, what type of surge protecter is best for this rig?
3) Hardwired or portable which would be best?
Itís behind the small wall built into the transfer switch.
I went with the hardwired Hughes Power Watchdog.
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Old 07-13-2022, 01:14 PM   #16
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Its behind the small wall on the passenger side. It’s a surge guard that’s built-in to the transfer switch.
I went with the Hughes Power Watchdog hardwared.
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