Montana Suspension Upgrade with X-Factor

[glendodom]

I have a 2018 Montana, 3721RL which has a suspension system that Morryde manufactured for Montana. The center suspension assembly is labeled: Montana LRE 4100.

Looking on the Morryde website, I presume that equates to their Morryde LRE suspension assembly?

Morryde makes an added cross member that goes with their suspension systems, referred to as X-Factor Crossmember. You can add just one in the center or also add two additional, one on the front suspension end and one on the rear. These run around $130 plus per set. They are advertised to improve stability and decrease frame stress, especially with tight turns and or backing when you put the suspension system in a bind, especially tight turns.

I have noticed when making real stiff turns in some cases there definitely is a lot of stress put on the tires and the suspension system.

I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with adding these cross members? Advantage of adding all three verses just the center.

[kowbra]

Following; I'm also interested in folks experiences.

Brad

[dieselguy]

If you do a search on the MOC for "x factor", you will come up with several past threads addressing the subject. I've put the middle beam on two units and feel it helps the flex of the frame I beams during tight turns.

[Last2Die]

following

[RMcNeal]

Also following. I've been considering 1 or 3 for our 3791RD. It's going to be a while before I'll be able to get the IS upgrade.

[RMcNeal]

For anyone interested, please be aware!
I just got off the phone with Lippert, the frame manufacturer. They say that any addition such as the X-Factor Crossmember, or even the Morryde Independent Suspension, would void the frame warranty and that any repairs in the future would not be covered.
Needless to say, I was shocked. They also will not cover any frame issues if any parts are bolted on, welded on, or otherwise attached to the frame unless prior approval by Lippert. When I asked for suggestions in lieu of the Morryde IS, they said their best suspension upgrade would be Center Point Air Ride Equalizer and adding that would not void the warranty provided it was installed properly.
https://support.lci1.com/center-point. Now I'm not sure how I'll proceed, but being this is a new unit only 1 year old, I don't want to void any warranty or give Lippert or Keystone any reason not to repair something.
I live at the edge of a cul-de-sac so somewhat tight turns are necessary. I go as slow as I can and take the turn as wide as the road will allow, but with all the complaints about the spring hangers and suspension problems, I was concerned enough to want to beef up what it came with. I'm already getting the rig into the dealer for an alignment as the left rear tire is wearing heavily to the inside and the axles are about 3/4" further apart on the left side than the right. Also, there appears to be a toe problem causing the wear to the inside on just that one tire.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by RMcNeal

For anyone interested, please be aware!
I just got off the phone with Lippert, the frame manufacturer. They say that any addition such as the X-Factor Crossmember, or even the Morryde Independent Suspension, would void the frame warranty and that any repairs in the future would not be covered.
Needless to say, I was shocked. They also will not cover any frame issues if any parts are bolted on, welded on, or otherwise attached to the frame unless prior approval by Lippert. When I asked for suggestions in lieu of the Morryde IS, they said their best suspension upgrade would be Center Point Air Ride Equalizer and adding that would not void the warranty provided it was installed properly.
https://support.lci1.com/center-point. Now I'm not sure how I'll proceed, but being this is a new unit only 1 year old, I don't want to void any warranty or give Lippert or Keystone any reason not to repair something.
I live at the edge of a cul-de-sac so somewhat tight turns are necessary. I go as slow as I can and take the turn as wide as the road will allow, but with all the complaints about the spring hangers and suspension problems, I was concerned enough to want to beef up what it came with. I'm already getting the rig into the dealer for an alignment as the left rear tire is wearing heavily to the inside and the axles are about 3/4" further apart on the left side than the right. Also, there appears to be a toe problem causing the wear to the inside on just that one tire.

Interesting. It seems similar to the Anderson Hitch warranty change in another thread where all of a sudden Lippert is excluding an aftermarket product from their warranty.
This seems to be a pattern, where Lippert is taking the stance that any changes to suspension, frame or hitch will void the warranty, with very few exceptions. And, those exceptions may become limited to only Lippert aftermarket products.

I find this pattern a bit disturbing. What other products that were approved in the past will suddenly become disapproved? Are others likewise concerned?

Brad

[dieselguy]

As each year passes ... the CYA of any conceivable event attitude of many companies just get more and more ridiculous. With this latest revelation, It has become apparent to me that with the increase in size of fivers year over year ... Lippert's frame design is on the very edge of function vs design limits. Thus any deviation from the original build is concerning to Lippert. I do value warranty, but not to the point of not adding an X factor that to my knowledge has never been directly attributed to any frame issue reported on any of the 4 RV forums I subscribe. X Factor has been put on a boat load of units since it came out say 9-10 years ago. I realize warranty is warranty and that in itself stokes concern to some of you.

[rames14]

I’m hoping Mootana chimes in here. This was discussed in the Virtual Rally and Sam was going to get clarification from Lippert. We have an appointment for IS in September on out new 3230Ck.

[Gregg]

I have an appointment Feb 2 to have the Moryde IS installed on my 2017 3721RL. Lippert has already proven to me their warranty is worthless. I spent my career involved in warranty dept. of a Caterpillar dealership. First of all a warranty cannot be voided. That is federal law. However all warranties are against faulty material and/or workmanship. So if a failure is caused by a modification that failure may not be covered by warranty. However the warranty is still valid. From an engineering stand point if you look at how the Moryde IS system is built and mounted. It removes all of the frame bending loads from the front to rear shackles caused by tight turns. There will still be a bending load at the front of the IS frame where it attaches to the trailer frame.
I am counting on a smoother ride to make the rest of my trailer experience much less shock, bounce and shake.

[DaveS1949]

My 2008 3000RK has the Mor/ryde LRE suspension system. In 2016 it collapsed onto the tire and cracked the frame after a cross country trip. Luckily we were actually in the parking lot of our destination. We had to pay a mobile mechanic to make a temporary repair to get it to a repair shop in Orlando, Florida. They said that this was not uncommon as the rigs were riding much higher than in the past and that the stress on the hangers was greatly increased, causing more failures. Then they informed me that Mor/ryde had a kit to fix the problem and strengthen the whole system ( which included wet bolts, heavier hangers and a cross brace ). My total cost was $5800 which was no fun, but fixed the problem and with about 20,000 more miles driven has proven bulletproof. If I had known of the kit and that the design was flawed, I would have hopefully avoided the breakdown as well as saved lots of money by having the kit installed as a preventative measure without paying for frame repair also. A good side note is that they did an alignment which saves tire wear.

[azwiz]

One more reason why!!!

[kramperD]

Approx 6 years ago we had the cross member put in by and covered by Lippert because of flexing problems underneath. They were the ones that suggested it, paid for it and it's one of the best things we had done for our Montana. They said the one cross member was all that was needed. No problems since!

[glendodom]

Originally Posted by RMcNeal

For anyone interested, please be aware!
I just got off the phone with Lippert, the frame manufacturer. They say that any addition such as the X-Factor Crossmember, or even the Morryde Independent Suspension, would void the frame warranty and that any repairs in the future would not be covered.
Needless to say, I was shocked. They also will not cover any frame issues if any parts are bolted on, welded on, or otherwise attached to the frame unless prior approval by Lippert. When I asked for suggestions in lieu of the Morryde IS, they said their best suspension upgrade would be Center Point Air Ride Equalizer and adding that would not void the warranty provided it was installed properly.
https://support.lci1.com/center-point. Now I'm not sure how I'll proceed, but being this is a new unit only 1 year old, I don't want to void any warranty or give Lippert or Keystone any reason not to repair something.
I live at the edge of a cul-de-sac so somewhat tight turns are necessary. I go as slow as I can and take the turn as wide as the road will allow, but with all the complaints about the spring hangers and suspension problems, I was concerned enough to want to beef up what it came with. I'm already getting the rig into the dealer for an alignment as the left rear tire is wearing heavily to the inside and the axles are about 3/4" further apart on the left side than the right. Also, there appears to be a toe problem causing the wear to the inside on just that one tire.

I contacted the MORryde guys and asked if they had heard of an issue about Lippert warranty issues based on installation. Below was their response. I am going ahead and do an install immaterial. I think the additional bracing is worth any possible issues.

======
MORryde response:
I got with everyone in aftermarket sales. While most cross members are welded in place, the X Factor is bolted on. It doesn’t modify or change any component of the frame. It’s possible LCI doesn’t understand this product or just wants to make a blanket statement. The X Factor will provide added lateral strength to the frame.

[shovelhead86]

Originally Posted by glendodom

I contacted the MORryde guys and asked if they had heard of an issue about Lippert warranty issues based on installation. Below was their response. I am going ahead and do an install immaterial. I think the additional bracing is worth any possible issues.

======
MORryde response:
I got with everyone in aftermarket sales. While most cross members are welded in place, the X Factor is bolted on. It doesn’t modify or change any component of the frame. It’s possible LCI doesn’t understand this product or just wants to make a blanket statement. The X Factor will provide added lateral strength to the frame.

On my last trailer I built an X factor copy. I am a welder and fabricated it so that it could be bolted on as I did not like welding to the frame. It was still working fine when I traded the trailer on my current 3791 RD. I think I will be buying an X factor system for this trailer as I do make tight turns occasionally. By the time I purchased materials and spent all the time fabricating the X factor I think I ill be ahead of the game buying from Moryde.

[rames14]

I had an email exchange today with Sam Lengerich of Keystone. He contacted both Lippert and MorRyde. Since MorRyde is replacing the suspension, obviously Lippert would no longer warranty the suspension. MorRyde has a five year warranty on the IS. We are scheduled for September for IS.

[bshgto]

I put all 3 x-Factors on and the MorRyde SRE 4000 suspension to improve on what we are given. Common sense will tell you this can nothing but help. I just know stuff does not move around in my camper like it used to.
Seems like every time one talks to another person at Keystone, MorRyde or the frame shop
you get a different answer. I believe they all are looking for a reasons to deny any warranty claim with no engineering behind it and use your fear of that to get over on you. Ask to speak to their engineer and prove in writing it will do some thing to the frame by using those products, you`ll never get it.
I tried a warranty claim for frame flex, they could find nothing to deny the claim so the dealer said you can not fix a vacuum bonded wall so they said they would not do what Keystone said to do for the repair.
The engineering will prove them wrong and this isn`t the person you are talking to at a rally. Engineers don`t like to lie it`s a professional thing among them the others will and do all the time.

[twindman]

For those worried about frame stress when turning, no way (in my opinion) is the 12 inch frame on Montanas a weak spot. What IS going to break is the small welded on bracket holding the springs. Think about it - a maybe 1/4 or 3/8 inch piece of steel, or the frame that has the cross piece of the I beam strengthening it. I am interested in any mechanic/welders opinions.

[Former StClairSailor]

I had the MorRyde IS system installed in 2018 after attending the National Rally. While at the rally, I spoke to a Lippert rep. He stated the IS system will not affect the frame warranty. Based on your comments, I just contacted a senior technician at Lippert. He states the MorRyde IS system is an after market upgrade and if installed by MorRyde will not affect the frame warranty.

[RMcNeal]

Well it seems what day and who you talk to at Lippert has great effect in your answers to any questions. I'm starting to think their frame warranty isn't any better than their answers.