bad battery or converter not charging? - Montana Owners Club

sreigle · 08-15-2005, 05:00 PM

About six weeks ago our battery died a sudden death after three years of faithrul service. We happened to be doing our first and only overnight at Walmart so I just walked over and bought a new battery.

Sunday when hitching up to leave Hungry Horse, MT, I used the stabilizers, on battery (no 110 hooked up, truck not hooked up), to get the right height for hitching. Pushed the button for a short time then let go of the button. Pshed the button again. Nothing. Cussed it awhile, walked around awhile, tried again. It worked. I figured it overheated the auto reset circuit breaker on the battery. Thought maybe I need to clean and lube the landing gear sometime soon. Got the house the right height and hitched the truck. Went to lower the house onto the hitch. Nothing. Waited, cussed, walked around. Nothing. I figured at this point maybe the motor died but I could hear the clicking, like a solenoid. Then our neighbor, one of our MOC members - Nkwist (Norm) suggested maybe the battery is too weak to operate the motor. Being six weeks old I didn't suspect that. The umbilical was attaced to the truck so I started the truck and, voila', we had an operational landing gear (thanks Norm!). On our two day trek to Island Park, ID, we found we have to leave the truck engine running during those pullout potty stops or there's no juice to run the water pump. Also the fridge would not operate (I assume) without 12v power.

In the next couple of days I'll check the battery and try putting the charger on it. I am not sure yet whether the battery crashed a cell or what. Or maybe the converter quit recharging the battery. We've done no boondocking on this battery but did about 1200 miles on the road before it went bad.

So, does anyone know how best to check to see if the converter is in fact putting out juice to recharge the battery? I do have a VOM and know how to use it but am not highly skilled in electronics/electrical areas.

Other ideas and suggestions are also welcome.

Thanks.

Montana_2785 · 08-15-2005, 07:54 PM

Steve, when we arrived in North Carolina last thanksgiving day to pick up our Monty from the previous owners, our converter was not working. I borrowed his charger during that night then went out the next day and got a battery charger to supply power on our trip home.

Sometime during the next few weeks the converter just magically started to work again. I never did figure out what was wrong..... AND that battery charger has a permanent spot in the Monty just-in-case

All you need to see if your converter is working is to get a 12V meter. I have a digital one that plugs into the cig. outlet on our tv antenna amplifier. If the converter is working and you have no lights on you should see something like 13.6-13.8 volts. If it is at or below 12V, then the converter is not working and you are discharging the battery.

If you just have a typical volt meter, put the probe ends on the battery terminals. The above voltages apply there as well.

Eric

tweir · 08-16-2005, 08:48 AM

Steve,
Make sure your battery ground is good & clean on both the cable end attaching to and going from the battery to the ground lug on the coach. Without a good ground, you will have all sorts of problems, especially in the charging circuit.

rames14 · 08-17-2005, 04:01 PM

Steve -

Did you put your meter on to see if you're getting 13.5 volts during charging? I believe that's what it should be showing. I also lost a one year old battery over vacation and attributed it to the fact that our dealer only put one small battery in and we should have had two larger ones. Mine was to the point that it didn't work even with the truck running. Plugged in the Honda and away we went. The new Honda 2000 earned its keep. Mine was showing 12.9 v but I may have a dead cell in that battery. Haven't got a chance to check it out - figured to do it at the rally with Keystone reps there.

jerryb · 08-18-2005, 02:50 PM

Wally World does not have the best batteries, but they do have a very good waranty, take it back.

kdeiss · 08-18-2005, 03:04 PM

As mentioned above check the ground wire to the coach also the pos. goes to a term block both of ours were loose.

patodonn · 08-18-2005, 08:20 PM

Steve: I recently had an electrical problem and was concerned that the converter may have been "blown". A Keystone dealer's tech told me to disconnect the battery leads (with shore power hooked up) and then check the voltage across the disconnected leads. In that configuration, the converter senses "low" battery voltage and is in the charge mode. He said to look for around 13.5 - 13.8 volts. You need a digital voltmeter to do this...the "old" type of voltmeter just isn't accurate enough. If you are getting 12 or less volts across the disconnected leads, that is indicitive of a converter failure.

Hope that is of some help.

Best,

PJ

HamRad · 08-19-2005, 10:04 AM

Hi Steve,
I'm betting it's a converter gone bad. You'll know as soon as you do the test PJ suggests. Those things are pretty accessible on our model rigs so you can probably do it yourself. Did I mention I just had to change out my alternator on my 450? It was an easy job. I COULD have done it myself but got my brother to do it for me. One of the nicely engineered features on the Ford PSD. $174.00 for a replacement. Not too bad.

Let us know what you find out. See you later.

Dennis

sreigle · 08-20-2005, 08:21 AM

Thanks all. I haven't done anything yet but by the time I get done with MOC it should have warmed up enough for me to go outside and get this done. I'll do the check for charging voltage. PJ, my VOM is analog, not digital, but is a good quality one. It should show the voltage ok, at least enough to convince me it's charging ok. Maybe not. We'll see. In any case, I'd put money at this point that the problem is the ground. I know for fact the sheet metal screw through the front locker floor which grounds the battery cable is loose and corroded. I've seen that in the past. Just didn't take time to do anything about it. Plus the other day, the park lost power. We had no 12 volt power either. But 30 minutes later the 12v power was back but the park's 110 was still out. Has to be an intermittent ground. At least I hope so. That's the cheapest possibility anyhow!

Dennis, sorry to hear about the alternator. Last time I changed one of those was on my '64 Pontiac LeMans (changed nearly everything in that car at one time or another!) and the alternator was something like twenty bucks!

HamRad · 08-20-2005, 03:51 PM

Hi Steve,

After reading your description of the corrosion on the grounding cable I'd guess you're right. It has to be clean and nice and tight. Do you use the battery cable cleaner and corrosion preventer stuff? If not it would be a good idea. It really works well. I hope that is the problem.... that will make it easier to fix.

See you later.

Dennis

nkwist · 08-20-2005, 05:51 PM

Steve, if you don't have it fixed by the time we get there next weekend, we'll swap batteries for a bit and see if it travels with the battery.

I rigged up a simple "pushbutton" opener for the screen door yesterday so you don't have to "slide the slide" if you're using the screen door. Took less than 10 minutes and less than 50 cents. Perhaps you'll help me post photos here in case anyone else is interested.

Chris says "HI" to Vicki. (Woody says "Woof").

sreigle · 08-22-2005, 05:44 AM

Norm, I'm interested in your pushbutton but will look at it when you get here. By the way, I saw in the office this morning "you have mail."

It was the ground that was bad. The battery was as 13.8v and the converter was putting out the same. I removed the ground strap, cleaned it up, drilled a new hole (my third sewer hose container blocks access to the original hole), tossed the original sheet metal screw and remounted the cable with a through-bolt. I used a standard lock washer between bolt head and cable, then an external tooth star washer between cable and floor/ground, and another lock washer between floor and nut. I don't think it's going anywhere and I wanted to make sure there was a solid bite into the floor/ground.

Dennis, the corrosion was mostly on the sheet metal screw. The cable had the usual discoloration on the cable ring at the floor/ground end, not on the battery end. I scraped it shiny but didn't put anything on it. It's a very long ways to a hardware store from this park. Something like 45 miles. So I used what I had at hand.

Thanks to all. I think we're back in business. Norm, thanks for the offer to swap batteries but looks like we're ok now.

Montana_2785 · 08-22-2005, 06:29 AM

Steve, before you put that new ground bolt together you should coat it with a dielectric grease. There is some stuff I've used on battery terminals from an automotive place that has some anticorrosion compounds in it. It will keep the air, water and other outside elements from oxidizing your connections. That way you will have a good ground connection for a very long time.

Eric

tweir · 08-22-2005, 06:50 AM

Steve,
Glad you found the problem. Eric has a good thought here. I have some stuff here in the shop that is really good---a bit messy, but good! Keeping over 30 "electric golf cars" running here at work, really intensified my "self-study" on batteries and charging circuts. Nexst time you are "out-n-about" pick up a small tube/container of the dielectric grease---it works on the battery terminals as well and really cuts back on "problems".

nkwist · 08-22-2005, 12:34 PM

Steve, good to hear you got it fixed. Leaving Polson on Wed., then a week in Anaconda and arriving Red Rock on Wed. the 31st. See you then.

rames14 · 08-22-2005, 01:59 PM

Steve -

Another successful field fix. Glad everything is going well, now. Enjoy Yellowstone.

sreigle · 08-23-2005, 08:19 AM

Good idea on the dielectric grease. I think I still have a small tube of that in my toolbox from back in the distributor points days.

Norm, I assume you let the CG know the change in dates. When I asked the other day they had you arriving the 27th. If you want, I can let them know of the change. Just email me the dates. They're very nice people. They also told me the other morning a moose and a bear were spotted about a quarter mile east of here, along the road. Different times, of course. We also saw the mama moose and her calf the other evening while driving the five-mile road from US 20 to the park. By the way, don't speed down that road. There is open range for some cattle and they like the road. Lots of deer, also.
We got a box of firewood, by the way.

HamRad · 08-23-2005, 10:59 AM

Hi Steve,
I'm glad it was a relatively easy fix. Those are always nice!

Dennis

nkwist · 08-23-2005, 06:58 PM

Steve, we got the arrival date squared away with Pat yesterday. We were going to stay longer but Fishing Bridge and Colter Bay have room after the Labor Day weekend and we have reservations starting the 6th of Sept.

Looking forward to another campfire. Not allowed in this part of MT now due to extreme fire possibility.

We saw our Grizzly while in Many Glaciers, and know we'll see plenty of elk and bison in Yellowstone. Yet to see our moose, though. Would you try to keep him around for a while? Thanks.

adelmoll · 08-24-2005, 03:10 AM

You guys are making me very jealous. We never did get to see our moose.

Helen

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