Figuring Weights - Please Check My Logic

[richfaa]

I am with bingo.There is plenty of information to be found on how to properly weigh the rig. The RVSEF website is one of them. Forums like this are generally not. Shame on you bingo for injecting levity. My "it will pull it fine" joke apparently was not funny. I always think it is when I see it posted.

[Art-n-Marge]

There is mixing of terms or acronyms within several posts. I think I know what most posts meant but there are some mistakes. First, when weighing the rig and truck together this is called GCW (not GCWR). The acronym is also known as CGW or CGWR. The distinction is the "R". R refers to the rating or the maximum weight recommended for the description, in this case Combined Gross Weight Rating. Since "a" represents an actual weight, then the R is not used.

A trailer does not have a CGWR, since they are not typically used for towing things, double towing aside. The proper term is GVWR or GTWR (to distinguish it's a trailer). In kind, leaving off the R refers to the actual weight from a scale. There are also other weight points like Pin Weight which is calculated and Axle weights. But all these become part of the GTW or GVW (of a trailer).

I agree with CountryFolks math (since it's now fixed) that the trailer appears to be overweight (but Irlp explains how the math works very well). But one can expect most trailers are going to be overweight when the tanks are full, there's people in them, the cupboards are full, etc. The Rating becomes important when you are UNDERWAY, and this is one reason I don't travel with a completely full fresh water tank and don't need to. For example, my rig has a 60 gallon fresh water tank and 10 gallons in the hot water heater. With water weighing about 8.3 lbs, that's 581 lbs! Empty the fresh water tank and the HW and you save almost 600 lbs. Fill these up at your destination, then empty them before getting underway to save weight or even fill them partially, but you don't have to fill them up. You can also save lots of weight by not carrying those rocks you collect. The key is to unload stuff you don't need before getting underway.

There are mostly good posts in this topic for weighing and improving a load and for the most part this topic is about people who want to tow within weight compliance. Finding out you are overweight and need or want to do something about it, is mostly a good thing. Joking aside, some still pull over the ratings and this is bad especially when something fails or someone else gets involved. I say since things can go bad when one is within the weight ratings, why push it and chance negligent liability. This isn't a law, YET, for the private sector. When someone with very good media attention runs into this THEN rest assured it will become law. Then we all get to belly-ache that another law telling us to do what we should have been doing gets argued to no avail. When anyone voluntarily messes with the spirit of what's right or safe, then laws force the issue for those who prefer to take a chance.

I weighed my rig some time ago, found myself overweight even with empty tanks and was lucky enough to remedy the issue without buying a new truck, but it was MY choice to seek a fix. When I was going through this, I had folks telling me I was wrong, what I was doing was wrong and several other opinions which I have since disregarded. I KNOW I am in compliance, by law and I am more than satisfied with it. I may improve further, but I don't have to. I just have to make sure any improvements don't cause me weight compliance issues because that's what I choose.

I say, the question was not stupid and Countryfolks answered it with the most simplicity and let's leave it at that. Please note that Bingo's weight police cartoon does NOT have a full load of constabularies because the extra weight would violate the vehicle's ratings. Y'all didn't notice that did ya.

[Irlpguy]

While your reference to GTWR makes sense Art, the actual sticker on every trailer I have owned that had one, says GVWR. Because the sticker is affixed to that vehicle there would be no need to distinguish a trailer from a truck with the terminology. I along with other contributors included the terms GVWR in instances where it might have been more appropriate to have used GW when referring to the GW (actual) weights. However I think everyone understood what was being referred to.

Neither I or anyone else made any judgement on being overweight or not, that is an individual choice, no one made any reference to the law or otherwise in this thread until you made mention Art. That also is ok with me.

What bothers me is that Long Time members of this forum who have seen this type of topic many times chose to inject a joke and what appears to me to be mocking comments. What kind of message does that send to new members who are legitimately trying to educate themselves on this or any other topic of concern to them. While the topic may be old hat to a lot of members, it may be new and interesting and hopefully informative to newer members.

Rather than make a joke, if you have a link or other informative information on the topic then share that. In my opinion that would do a lot more good than injecting so called "levity".

Just my opinion as a fairly new member trying to be helpful.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I am with bingo.There is plenty of information to be found on how to properly weigh the rig. The RVSEF website is one of them. Forums like this are generally not. Shame on you bingo for injecting levity. My "it will pull it fine" joke apparently was not funny. I always think it is when I see it posted.

I, for one, thought your attempt at humor was funny.

You, like me, tend to spoof the "pull fine" posts because those posts are normally made by a driver who has a truck too small for his RV. Therefore, rather than saying "I'm over weight and need a bigger truck" he says, "I've driven a million miles and it pulls fine." There is a lot of good information on this forum, but there is also a lot of bad information...mostly regarding the size truck needed to handle the weight of a Montana.

[HOOK]

On the entry door, screen, or in jam is a yellow sticker with dry weight . They are now applied at factory.

[richfaa]

Be serious.. No joking. Beware the levity police. We old timers , I have been here 8 years, must have banged our heads on the pin box one to many times or maybe we have been rv'ing to long or on forums to long and have heard it all . We have always tried to help one another and I have been on the receiving end of help many times. However changes must be made. When a question is asked if you don't have the answer don't reply. Levity and joking are not answers. No spoofing. That should leave me out of replying to most every question asked.

[Art-n-Marge]

I have seen the dry weight and also know where my stickers are in that regard, but when trying to meet weight compliance, it means nothing plus it is not always accurate. Adding an additional fixed item like an A/C or a generator will change the dry weight no matter what the sticker says because this item has permanently taken away Cargo or aka Load Capacity, so like Dry weight, load/Cargo capacity is not relevant for determining weight compliance since this can easily be made inaccurate. This is also true for most TVs who've added accessories and options and all carry different cargo for their needs. For this reason, only GVWR is the number to use. I mentioned GTWR because many articles I've read often use this acronym to reflect the same GVWR when talking about a trailer - I encountered this as I learned about weight compliance. The real point I was trying to make is that a trailer does not have a CGVWR. That acronym belongs to the TV (the item with the motor and trans that is pulling everything behind it and never the trailer(s), This is also why most trailer manufacturers don't want to tell you anything can be attached to the back of the trailer since this can put any mishap for this configuration on them and they just don't want to deal with it.

Irlp, I didn't mind the levity, brevity, or jokes, at all, since I very well know how these relationships work and can tell the difference. I do some of this on other topics myself. I just wanted to ensure since this is a black and white topic (you are either gonna be weight compliant or not, period and the scales are the only place to find that out) that the information we provided was consistent so for those who are asking for help like the OP (and others who brought up they'd like to know where they stand) will get the information they need to figure it out. You and CountryFolks did that. I recall others did this too, but there were some incorrect references and terms that I hoped I addressed to ensure with this topic is accurate.

I am weight compliant and know how to get there. Then there's tires... no, let's not get started on that.

[Irlpguy]

quote:
Hook wrote:
On the entry door, screen, or in jam is a yellow sticker with dry weight . They are now applied at factory.

I am sure I am not telling you anything you don't know, but the same yellow sticker refers to that weight as Unloaded Vehicle Weight UVW. The same sticker includes the weight of a full load of water and tells you that the Weight of Cargo should not exceed a certain weight.

I assume this is specific to each individual RV, depending on it's accessories when shipped from the factory. Would that be correct.

The other White sticker on the drivers side normally by the propane tank compartment tells you who the manufacturer is and gives the GVWR of the unit along with some tire info.

Then of course there is the tire sticker located normally beside the one mentioned above.

Thanks for the reminder of that particular yellow sticker.

[helmick]

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

Wow, Rich has reformed his ways and is actually displaying a sense of humor?? Never thought I would see the day. Guess I will have to clue the WP (Weight Police) in on this thread and send them to the rescue since the request was made!!

They are watching you:



Bingo
You would think that by the age of 39 you would know there are really know weight police.
Ron

[Irlpguy]

Art thank you for correcting the references, as hard as we may try to word things correctly sometimes a reference will be incorrectly used.

You have actively participated in this thread by attempting to clarify meanings of terms used, and have added additional thoughts of your own. Your reference to the tire subject is taken in the way intended and I do not object to that.

A joke or other non related aside being the only contribution to the threads topic is where I have made the distinction and right or wrong I object to that. Jokes, levity and friendly jabs are completely ok when applied in an appropriate way and at an appropriate time.

That's my opinion which ain't worth much and for sure no one wants to hear my opinion on mouse traps or tires.....

[8.1al]

It's quite simple. Rainer wanted to know if his trailer is overweight and according to his figures it is.

[richfaa]

[quote]Originally posted by helmick

[quote]Originally posted by bncinwv

Wow, Rich has reformed his ways and is actually displaying a sense of humor?? Never thought I would see the day. Guess I will have to clue the WP (Weight Police) in on this thread and send them to the rescue since the request was made!!

They are watching you:



Bingo
You would think that by the age of 39 you would know there are really know weight police.
Ron


But there are weight police. In Ohio they are a branch of the Ohio State patrol, Their cars and trucks are so marked and all they do is weigh commercial vehicles. They patrol the roads and can pull the truck over for inspection and weighing.

[kdeiss]

Same in Pa>

[bethandkevin]

But there are weight police. In Ohio they are a branch of the Ohio State patrol, Their cars and trucks are so marked and all they do is weigh commercial vehicles. They patrol the roads and can pull the truck over for inspection and weighing.
[/quote]
Same here in Michigan. However, they look just like any other MSP Tahoe. You don't know until they are behind you, and I've been there.

[helmick]

Sorry
I have towed in 45 states and never saw a RV weight police.

[Art-n-Marge]

Hey, Ron, down here where I live in Murrieta/Temecula, there is now one officer dedicated to stuff like this. He checks more than that just weight and mostly goes after commercial trucks. I hear he's VERY busy and not in a good way. The Cities actually bought him his own big SUV and he carries all kinds of test equipment and catches infractors on a daily basis. It's been a while since I've checked how he's doing or even if he's still around, but since so many aren't serious about maintaining the safety of their rigs, I'm guessing the income from the tickets might pay for more officers to "help us" do that.

I do agree that if you don't look like you're overweight, you probably won't notice or see them, but they do exist. Even in Canada I heard that private trucks towing overweight will only get stopped and checked if they look overweight (sagging rear ends or obviously oversized loads). The story is to install air bags to hide it since they don't increase the ratings but help disguise any issues.

[richfaa]

quote:Originally posted by helmick

Sorry
I have towed in 45 states and never saw a RV weight police.

Do one said RV weight police. Rv's are not bothered unless you are pulling commercial. But there are weight police.

[Countryfolks]

Weigh stations [chicken coops] anyone? And in Arkansas there's the Highway Police, part of the Ar Dept of Highways who keep an eye on the big guys.

[Flymutt]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa


My "it will pull it fine" joke apparently was not funny.

Heck, I thought you were serious.

[bigred715]

A lot of us knowingly tow overweight, and some don't know. Has ANYONE heard of an accident that was caused by being over weight? There will probably never be an accident caused by being over weight unless you are grossly over. "Tows just fine" is probably true in most cases and they will never have a problem. We SHOULD try to be within our weights, but most likely nothing horrible will happen if you drive properly and keep your equipment in good shape. JUST MY OPINION!