EGT ..Opinions

[skypilot]

What a hoot -- and timing coincidence -- Last night I just happened to be talking to my brother who is mechanic'ing for one of the Ford Dealers in Albuquerque. They have a 6.0 liter in that has a 'melted turbo'; driver pulling a large cattle trailer in from the west and running it hard. Told brother of this thread and he said 'Yes, the computer will defuel, but not always before damage is done. Also, prolonged running at high temps (high speed, low rpm but high fuel (I called it lugging the engine)) will cause damage as well. The damage is cumulative for turbos according to him. I asked specifically, would having an EGT guage have prevented this -- his answer was 'Yes, if the person used it properly and didn't just run the S%^t out of the truck. (Could tell he was not a happy mechanic today having to fix this!! Pain in the ars from what I remember). (As a side note he told me this guy routinely drives from Grants/Gallup and points slightly further out west and takes loads of cattle to areas in central and North Central New Mexico -- drives the speed limit or better which is 75 mph on I40 and I25 -- pulling a load. My wording -- guess he believes the 'DieselStop' forum sight where they say 'drive it like ya stole it!!' But again I digress).

In any case, thought his insight might help.

One last thing - asked him pre or post turbo and he said 'PRE!!! -- post turbo too slow and by the time it gets up there, the damage is already done!! (his emphasis as well).

Hope this helps.

[richfaa]

Diesel guy ..no offense taken. I am just not a handy person and I contribute heavily to the economy by paying folks to do all the things I can not do.This was a great learning experience..We made the decision today and will have "stuff" installed Oct 11th.After more discussion and clarification with these guys, www.turnerracing.net we went with a monitor that measures every thing the truck is doing..in fact it measures things I did not know the truck did.. and we are going pre turbo as what they meant was that most turbo failures are caused by the improper use of the motor after performance enhancing chips or software has been installed.The enhancements are installed so that the manufacturers specs can be exceeded and when you exceed them the chances are good that you will blow up the motor.Amatures doing the installation also cause many failures. Mr Turner said that he had NEVER seen a EGT probe cause a turbo failure by itself. He showed me the material the newer sensor is made of and said it was doubtful that if it did go through the turbo it would cause any damage.

Thanks for all the help..

[c5racer]

Hope they don't have to remove the body to drill for the probe.

[richfaa]

"Hope they don't have to remove the body to drill for the probe" Holy cow...never thought about that..

[Fire5er]

So far so good with my stock engine and no gauges. Love how the truck pulls through the passes out here in the great northwest.

[clutch]

This has been an interesting topic. Since installing an Edge box I have been a little nervous about what was going on with my Dodge. We had a pyro installed pre turbo and it is amazing how fast that needle can move. I also had a fuel pressure gauge installed because that is the most important one for the Dodge. I am very happy with my fuel pressure plus I can now keep a closer eye on it. The last gauge was for my automatic transmission. I opted to not get a boost gauge. Lots of black smoke tells me if my boost is low. We had these gauges mounted on top of the dash because the blind spot on the pillar is too big as it is.

[richfaa]

I do not remember the brand of guage we purchased. It is a single guage, round and plugged into the diagnostic port under the dash and reads everything that is present there. It is a digital read out. The EGT is a seperate run but also reads on the single guage. I chose that particular guage because it IS a single guage..The dash of the truck is cluttered enough as it is. You can only present two readouts at a time and have to scroll through the rest but the readouts are large, easy to read, and the digital readout is bright. It will be installed on top on the dash to the far left at the bottom of the pillar and at about steering wheel level.I was mainly interested in seeing the EGT but for the price I figured it would not hurt to see everything... besides as a one time E.T with the FAA We love computer readouts of system performance.

[Redrover98]

I installed Westach gauges on my 98 24 valve Dodge to help me monitor what was going on with the engine and transmission. Towing a heavy load as most of us here do, the gauges let me know of a problem that might starting. Fuel pressure on the 98 Cummins is critical for the life of the injector pump. The fuel pressure gauge showed erratic fuel pressure and I was able to determine I had a fuel pump problem. While driving outside of Sedona, AZ I had a decrease in power and noticed that my egt was higher than normal. I also noticed that as I gave it more pedal the egt increased and I had very little boost. I thought "turbo trouble". It was actually the bottom turbo hose that had come loose from the intercooler pipe. I would definitely not be without the transmission oil temp gauge on the Dodge.Checking these gauges plus the engine temp and oil pressure regularly can help spot a potentially serious problem.

[clutch]

Redrover98, our trucks are almost twins. When I wear this one out I will get a set of training weels on the next one.

[Blord]

quote:Originally posted by Eagle Man

IMHO, if the manufacturer says a stock truck works fine with stock guages, that's good enough for me.

It works fine with the truck all by its lonesome. When you start towing a heavy load in mid summer or you start pushing hills (hills as in Colorado) it is a whole different ball game.

I have a 2006 Dodge dually and I have had more than 1 occaison where my speed was determined not by what the engine could do but what the EGT was running. Driving across Kansas last month at 97 degrees I had to back off 65 and only do 60 to keep the temp at 1250 degrees.

In my 2001 I pulled from Phoenix to Flagstaff in 110 degree heat and also had to back off to keep the EGT down. The engine had throttle and power left but the temps were too high.

Both trucks have the thermocouple mounted pre turbo.

[Eagle Man]

BTDT, never had a problem.

[happy campers]

quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

I guess as usual I'm gonna buck the mainstream here. It is no biggie to install the thermocouple pre-turbo plus you'll get a much more accurate indication of the temperature hitting the turbo blades. There's two easy methods of getting the thermocouple in the exhaust manifold. I drill on the bottom of the drivers side manifold about 1.5" before the flange that the up-pipe bolts to. 1. Get your drill, a pilot bit, and the full sized bit along with the correct tap ... start her up, roll under the truck and just do it. The exhaust will blow out any shavings produced. 2. Gather your equipment again except don't start the engine. Coat your drill bits with heavy grease as well as your tap ... then just do it. If you still feel there might be a shaving inside the manifold ... just stick one of those small telescoping pocket magnets in the hole before you install the thermocouple. I've done 7 installations using either of the above and never had an unhappy customer. As for the factory Garrett turbo on Fords ... 1270 is max ... 1250 sustained is very concerning. If you decide to go post tubo, be sure and keep in mind you need to add about 250 - 300 degrees to your reading to get the true temp going into your turbo. I also know there are worries about the possibility of the probe breaking off and causing damage pre-turbo ... I've never heard of this possibility becoming reality. This is just my personal take on this and not meant to throw stones at the post-turbo crowd.

In my opinion, this is a well thought out installation DIY for the EGT gauge install, and I'm with the pre turbo crowd as well. No doubt some variation of this has been used hundreds of times or more by backyard mechanics, including me, without any problems. Not being a diesel mechanic myself does not keep me from working on my truck and doing what repairs or mods I can do. All diesels should have an EGT gauge(my opinion), and I'm guessing they don't because the bean counters have decided to cut that corner in production. But any gauge is worthless unless monitored while driving, which most people probably don't bother to do. I want to know what the temps are, so I can have some input to make corrections. Also as was stated, it's good to know what the temps are before you shut down the engine.

[Fordzilla]

So far no gauges in the '06. but previous trucks all had pre turbo Pyrometers and gauges mounted on the a-pillar down close to the dash so not to create a bigger blind spot.

[gj4040]

While it is true that most people don't look at their gauges most of the time, they do use them on those rare occasions when they are putting their truck under an increased load such as climbing or driving in very hot temperatures and when getting ready to shut down after an extended period of hauling. I know that in my previous 05 F-250 I had a pillar mounted EGT gauge and I always waited for it to come down to 400 degrees ( pre turbo ) before shutting it off. I also believe that it should be a standard gauge on any truck but as the previous poster has stated, the bean counters are probably to blame for it not being included.

[Ozzie]

Wow...I just had a conversation with our dealer about egt and boost gauges. I told him I wanted to monitor my truck towing in the mountains and didn't want to place my warranty in jeopardy by adding these gauges.

He said no problem, and is looking into having it done for me - by a certified tech and full warranty in place.

Of course, it is going to be expensive going through the dealer, but I still think it would be awesome to have.

[Montana Sky]

Bruce,
I had my dealership install both the boost and egt gauges in my Duramax for $428.36 including tax. In my opinion, the best 400 bucks I ever spent.

[Ozzie]

You betcha Dave...it's the last thing keeping me from a return to Glacier...I gotta get back out there. I know it's a tough pull in the mountains, our motorhome was our last victim out there, so I know what to expect. It'll be interesting to see what those gauges do.
I have to quit spending money soon, I'm running out of things to mod on my truck...just in time too with winter fast approaching.

[Trailer Trash 2]

This is the information on the proper place to install the EGT probe.
I sure hope this tag works.


http://i24.tinypic.com/15gro6d.jpg

[richfaa]

I had this one installed http://www.aeroforcetech.com/ A single guage, reads everything, large easy to read display. It reads every parameter that the diagnostic port outputs and I can choose and cycle through on a periodic basis any 8 parameters so that I have 8 guages worth of information.Developed by a couple of NASA engineers. The EGT and the Gage do not void the warranty as they are not....A performance enhancing chip or software.

[Trailer Trash 2]

Realy nice gages and do they install easy and what is the ball park price for the set up.
thanks