2008 Ford and 2007 GM's - Montana Owners Club

Montana Sky · 02-14-2007, 05:54 PM

Well it is official!! The 2007.5 GM HD's have hit the dealerships as well as the 2008 Ford Super Duty!

The new Chrome bumper on the Silverado is not as bad as it looks in the pictures, but GM still could have done better. Interior is the same as the 2007 half tons and the Tahoe's. Price is in line with the 2007 classics, MSRP was $49,355 for their LT3 Duramax crewcab 4x4 short bed. A nice truck, but in my opinion GM could have done better.

Ford on the other hand must be trying to recoup all of their losses from every Super Duty they sell. I found a 2008 F350 Crew long 4x4, King Ranch~loaded. Really a sharp looking truck with great creature comforts. This is where Ford has lost it, MSRP for this truck is $57,855 + $3,500 in market adjustments = $61,355 x 8.6% sales tax = $5276.53 bringing the new King Ranch to a grand total of $66,631.53. The dealership is not willing to deal, sticking to the original $61,355 price. LOL!

exav8tr · 02-14-2007, 06:26 PM

That's a lot of moola for a Ford (or any other truck for that matter)!!!!

JH Sechelt · 02-14-2007, 06:49 PM

Heck,

A person could buy a new Big Sky with that kind of money.

J&D

Chuck and Carol · 02-14-2007, 11:12 PM

We think we have found a GMC. They are so much more expensive than the last one we bought in 2005. There are incentives, but too many exceptions for the incentives. No wonder these companies are in trouble.
Also sign the papers for the Montana today. Maybe -- just maybe we will be owners of a truck and fifth wheel by this afternoon. Or, we will be two people with headaches

Carol

stiles watson · 02-15-2007, 01:44 AM

Somebody buy that Ford, put 60,000 miles on it and sell it to me for half price.

sreigle · 02-15-2007, 03:38 AM

Dave, isn't the LT3 more comparable to the Lariat? I'm thinking LT3 is top of the line, right? Lariat is top of the line for Ford. The King Ranch is another package on top of that. Apples and oranges, in other words. I may be wrong but I thought LT3 is the equal to the Lariat (or is that the XLT?). Last I saw in my research GM doesn't have anything comparable to the King Ranch. Again, I may be wrong. Taht's just what I'm finding.

richfaa · 02-15-2007, 03:55 AM

I have the MSVRP for the F-350 6.4l Lariat which, like Steve, I think is compairable to the silverado. The MSVRP is about the same as the Silverado. The King Ranch a nice rig..is a very expensive upgrade..What is this market adjustment??? have not heard of that??? They are all very expensive..

William H. Collier · 02-15-2007, 04:32 AM

I have never heard of a market adjustment either and I there are dealers that will deal. I bought mine at dealer invoice, and they are still making money. MSRP was $50,150.00 for a fully loaded Lariat F250 extended cab long bed. A F350 is only a couple of hundred dollars more, the price of a different rear spring. By the way it did come in Tuesday and we are going to try and pick it up this afternoon between snow storms.
Bill

W7PSK · 02-15-2007, 04:54 AM

Thats my problem with the New Trucks they want an arm, leg, 2 quarts of blood, your first two born and the keys to FT Knox.

GlobalDouglas · 02-15-2007, 05:37 AM

Several month ago, when looking for a new 07 king ranch I found many dealers not willing to come down from msrp (around 54k for fully loaded '07 KR). However, I went on-line and found a few dealers willing to deal. I think you get a much better deal that way, unless you have an honest dealer you've worked with in the past. My OTD price was under 50K. Either the now 08s are REAL SPECIAL or that dealer loves that truck so much he doesn't want to see it go!

Cat320 · 02-15-2007, 06:43 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Dave, isn't the LT3 more comparable to the Lariat? I'm thinking LT3 is top of the line, right? Lariat is top of the line for Ford. The King Ranch is another package on top of that. Apples and oranges, in other words. I may be wrong but I thought LT3 is the equal to the Lariat (or is that the XLT?). Last I saw in my research GM doesn't have anything comparable to the King Ranch. Again, I may be wrong. Taht's just what I'm finding.

You are correct, Steve...the LT3 is the top of the line. There are very few options you can get in addition to what comes standard...sun roof comes to mind. Chevy scales down from there to LT2 then LT1. The way is was explained to me is that the LT3 corresponds to the Ford KR.

Best I can find out the HDs will not be out until well into spring, only the half tons are out now.

Montana Sky · 02-15-2007, 08:45 AM

Bert,
The HD's are out! I sat in the new 2500HD last night...

Steve,
Yes, the LT3 is GM's top of the line. The price I quoted last night is for a fully loaded Duramax with sunroof and DVD player. I would say it is the same package as the Lariat on the Fords. Now as far as a King Ranch being a step above that?? The only difference between the fully loaded KR and the Lariat the dealership had in stock was the interior. (according to the salesman). I just cannot see paying $6-8k more for the saddle leather seats... What am I missing between the two packages??

On edit,
I also saw the wheels, running boards and badging was different.

Montana Sky · 02-15-2007, 11:38 AM

I just got home from the Ford dealership and need to clarify a few things from my original post. First, the King Ranch is one sweet truck! Took that baby out for a test drive and "WOW" is about the only word I can use to describe it. Second, the regional markup is something that was not supposed to be on the window. Dealers a few years ago were allowed to use this as an additional way of making profits for high demand vehicles. (Example, in our area 4x4 is almost a requirement, therefore a dealership could use the RM to inflate the vehicle cost as they are a higher demand vehicle). The $3,500 is no longer in play for this truck. The truck in play does have the Nav system so that put another $1,200 onto the sticker price as well as the sunroof. The final MSRP for the King Ranch in play is approx $58,000. I went over to the Lariat F350 which does not have the roof or Nav system, and that had a sticker price right at $52,000. According to the salesman, the only difference between the KR and the Lariat is the saddle leather, wheels, and badging, everything else is the same. Subtract off the approx $1,800 for roof and nav system and it looks like the King Ranch package is approx. $4,000 more than an equally equipped Lariat.

sreigle · 02-15-2007, 01:16 PM

Dave, I've never driven a King Ranch. Several in this forum own them so maybe they can answer my question. What I'm wondering is how comfortable were the seats? What I've read is that the saddle leather is so soft, so comfortable, that it, alone, is worth the upgrade cost to some people. Not having driven one, I have no idea how accurate that is. I know the leather seats in our Lariat are very comfortable, especially on long towing days. I'm spoiled and will have leather from here on out. I think you figured out the guy who said the loaded LT3 is the equivalent of the KR is just trying to sell his truck. As far as I know, the only difference is the interior, badges, wheels, and trim, as you said. Everything functional is the same. I think.

What did you think of the 6.4? I know it's not broken in so would not be at full power but I'm curious. I'm scrapping for every bit of info I can find on this and the new GMC before we buy this summer.

As you said, 'market adjustment' is, or was, additional profit tacked on by a dealer who knows the demand outstrips the supply and he will get that higher price. I was under the impressions dealers can still do that. I know I saw that on the stickers in some dealerships when that new Mustang came out. They left the floor so fast the dealer could almost name his price.

Thanks for the input Dave. If I recall, when I used the link RichFAA provided, the truck I "built" came in with msrp right about 51k. That was for the Lariat crew cab short bed 4x4 off road with lots of goodies but not everything. 6.4 and torqshift, etc.

One thing that appears to inflate the price is that about $4,000 worth of goodies is now standard and included in the base price. A good deal for those who want the goodies. Not good for those who don't. I don't recall what those goodies are. It may be listed on one of the many web pages I've saved.

Fordzilla · 02-15-2007, 01:30 PM

On the fords you can get 6-8k off if you have an x plan pin number. I have ford stock and a pin number to buy at costs. saved me a ton when I got a KR. The King Ranch is another step above the lariat and the seats after 4-5 years will still look just broken in, while the lariat ones will be getting cracks and starting to look tacky. My last two were KR's and the two before that were lariat's. You get a few other things with the KR package like painted wheel moldings, adjustable pedals, and my favorite part this time of year "HEATED seats"

Montana Sky · 02-15-2007, 02:01 PM

Steve,
Both the KR and Lariat have the same seat frame, as you know it is the leather that is different. The seats were very, very comfortable. The center console is large enough to put a full size laptop in and the arm rest on the door was at a good height. The console lids acts as the arm rest for the drivers right arm. My GM has a fold up arm rest, so I was not sure what I would think of the Ford not having one. The console hit me perfectly. Having 2 bad shoulders, I am pretty sensitive to my arm height. Not an issue on the new Ford. Interior space is huge, much more room over the entire cab. The Nav system was a tad awkward at first, but in time will be a nice addition. The sound system was nice, great bass and crisp highs. This is only my opinion, but if I were to deal on a Ford, I would go for the KR hands down. The steering wheel is also wrapped in the saddle leather and matches the seats, as does the console lid. The power rear sliding window is a nice touch. I forgot to look to see if it also had a rear window defroster?? I must have up here in the Pacific Northwest.

The new instant heat came on as soon as I turned on the heater. The dash layout is much different from my Chevy, that would take some getting used to. The motor is crammed under the hood of this truck, I am not sure how you would turn a wrench in there. The salesman said something about if major engine work has to be done, the body of the truck is lifted off the frame to fully expose the motor. (Not sure what I think of that)! The Powerstroke is quiet, and Ford has really gone to the extreme in using sound damping materials throughout this truck. I would say the 6.4L is almost as quiet as the Duramax. The motor will rev up its high idle feature after sitting for 2 mins at idle. This will bring the motor up to 1,000 RPM's~ has a dual purpose. First, the engine does not operate efficiently at idle RPM's. Second, as part of the new EPA regulations the exhaust system needs warmer exhaust temps to burn off the excess. Even at 1,000 RPM's we were able to stand in front of the truck with the hood open and have a conversation.

Drive ability is good. The new mirrors are AMAZING! GM take note! The larger windows throughout the truck help visibility. The small Honda Civic that was behind me disappeared at the stop light. The tailgate on the Ford is taller than the Civic. The new built in step in the tail gate is nice, but not of much use with a Montana attached. I put my foot into it while merging onto the freeway, power was good; sound from the motor was softer than the music coming from the stereo. In comparing the quickness, I would still say my Duramax is quicker than the Powerstroke. Up to highway speeds, the truck runs smooth and you had to strain to hear the diesel. The new 6.4L requires a special oil that you can only get from Ford, and Ford is saying oil changes are now standard at 10,000 miles. No more 3k or 5k oil changes... (not sure what I think about that either)!

Overall, I would say Ford has finally built a great truck. Being a fella who grew up on GM and has been driving GM for the past 12 years, I would not hesitate to purchase this new Super Duty. In fact, if I had to do it right now, the Super Duty King Ranch would be my next truck. GM has really dropped the ball in my opinion on their new HD trucks.

sreigle · 02-15-2007, 03:00 PM

Excellent info, Dave. My Lariat has the folding arm rest, also. But I have the captain's chairs. I understand the console large enough for a laptop is on the Lariat, also. Not sure if it's only with captain's chairs and if it's available on XL and XLT trim levels. I think I prefer the folding armrest but will have to check it out before I say that. My steering wheel is leather wrapped but not as nice as on the kr.

The instant heat is something I will insist on if I get the Ford. I like that idea. I've given up turning any wrenches under the hood of any of the new vehicles! The 2 minute fast idle is on the 6.0 also but I don't think it's quite 1000 rpm. It might be though as I never checked.

Dave, I heard when you raise the hood the grille is part of the hood and raises also for better access. Correct?

I think the mirrors are the same size as on mine except the wideangle mirror is larger. I've been telling you I love these mirrors and get paranoid in other vehicles when I can't see as well in the mirrors. The new ones power fold as well as power extend, too, while mine manual folds. Dave, you should have seen that Civic in the wide angle mirrors, right? Nothing gets by those mirrors on mine. Nothing. No blind spots because of those mirrors. I'd assume the same on the new ones?

Dave, that engine is not broken in. From what I'm reading, it will leave you trailing it. Not sure if that's true of the LBZ, though. Oil changes. In the past, Ford required Motorcraft (their brand) oil until they tested other oils. Motorcraft is available at Walmart, by the way. Ford, for the 6.0, approves a number of oils including Rotella T synthetic, which is what I use. And I've been doing 10k mile oil changes for quite some time now. The truck is still on the full mark at 10k, towing or not. Oil is much better than in the old days.

Dave, Ford has built a great truck for many years (witness the 30 year sales king thing). This one is just even better.

I'm still out to school on what I'll buy. From everything I've looked at so far, for me and in my opinion the new Ford wins hands down. Especially when looking at the numbers, frame, brakes, etc. BUT, it's still a new engine and I'm waiting to hear reports on that. I'll be in the market about the end of June and in July. I'm open to all the brands but from what I've seen it's Ford's to lose (for me). And if the new engine isn't getting great reviews, then they may lose it. We'll see.

Thanks for a great report. Wish I could find one to test drive myself.

Connorsmom · 02-15-2007, 03:03 PM

From my understanding, you can't have a rear defroster on the power window. Thats why it wasn't an option or standard on my truck.

Jan

Montana Sky · 02-15-2007, 03:23 PM

Jan,
If that is the case, I would take the solid rear window and defroster over the power sliding window.

Steve,
Yes the grill is part of the hood that opens, but with the large radiator sitting right there, it is not of much use. The King Ranch has bucket seats with the console in the center. The rear seat in this truck was a bench, but could have ordered it with rear buckets.

Yes, the Honda stayed in sight through the wide view side mirrors, that is the only reason I knew it was still back there.

The high idle feature on the new 6.4L is not based on temp. It is based on RPM's and idle time. Not sure how your 6.0L is, but the Duramax's high idle feature will only kick on when the temps are close to freezing.

To quote the brochure; "CJ-4 lubricating oil is another important link in the clean-diesel chain, and it is the only engine oil approved for the new Power Stroke." I am not up on my oils. I have no idea which brand this is talking about??

Part of the reason the Ford could have felt slower to me is the weight. I drive a crew cab sb 2500HD, this was an F350 crew cab lb, which I am sure weighs much more than my truck. Plus as you said, it is new.

Good luck on your next truck purchase. I do not think you could go wrong with either GM or Ford.

keham · 02-15-2007, 09:16 PM

I myself will not again buy a first year engine. Did that with ford in 03 with the 6.0. and nothing but problems. ( I think a lot of them were caused from ford not training the mechanic for the roll out). Around here for the first 7 or 8 months the only thing they had was a 20 minute tape. And also the new computers and sensors. they seem lost on. Got better at the end but by then I had had enough. 7 computer flashes less power each time and after rear seal still leaking after three repairs and other leaks . I bailed out took the 14 thou hit. Had this truck almost two years and only been to shop for oil changes. That other truck seemed to live at the diff dealers for one reason or another. So I hope they get this one right as I do like the ford heaver body and load ranges.

ken

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