Tow Vehicle Opinion - Good or Bad - Montana Owners Club

Dental Floss Tycoon · 02-15-2005, 01:46 AM

Hello all,

I would like your opinion on a tow vehicle I have in mind. It is a 2000 Ford F-350 XLT V-10 4X2 DRW with 4.30 gears. I took it out for a spin last weekend and it's pretty solid. Any pros or cons?

I need the expertise of the MOC membership to help me convince my accountant (wife) that we need this truck.

Thanks in advance,

Jetson · 02-15-2005, 03:05 AM

The main thing that comes to mind is fuel mileage. That truck will get low MPG unloaded, 11 to 12 probably, and even worse mileage towing your camper, around 6 probably.

The diesel F-350 should easily get 5 mpg better fuel mileage and the engine will last longer.

Bill Hill · 02-15-2005, 03:28 AM

Like everything else in life, there are trade-offs. I'm sure that Jetson is right about the mileage, but depending on how much you can spend for a truck and how much driving you'll be doing, it may be the way to go. We thought long and hard about spending the extra for the diesel, but since we're still working and can pay it by the time we retire, we opted for it, even though diesel fuel here in So. California is usually more expensive than regular gas.

RVWheels · 02-15-2005, 03:39 AM

If you haven't read the Trailer Life supplement on Towing that came out a month or so ago it is certainly worthwhile to get your hands on a copy of it. One of the things it talks about is the gear ratio vs. gas mileage.

RVWheels

richfaa · 02-15-2005, 04:59 AM

Good fuel milage a towing a Rv do not belong in the same sentence. I have a gas motor Chevy that gets a solid 9 to 11 MPG when towing.I belong to a rather large camping group and the reality is that gas, diesel, whatever 9-11 MPG in a pickup is about average. We just ordered the F-350 V10 Ford with the 4:30 Diff.We have several in our camping group and 9-11 is average. Of course driving conditions vary.remember just about everyone stretches the truth when it comes to "gas milage. Diesel SHOULD get a mile or two Better fuel milage.If the cost vs benefits are worth it Your "accountant wife" I have one of those also. can crunch the numbers on that one. Right now here in Ohio Gas is Average 1.85 diesel 2.19//diesel no advantage. If they were the SAME price with a motor cost diff of @ 5,000.00 wife figured it would take @5.65 years at 1000,000 miles per year to break even.
Bottom line..get the motor that suits your needs.

azstar · 02-15-2005, 12:11 PM

George,

I think for me it would boil down to purchase price and number of miles on the Truck. We have the 2000 Dodge V10 and love it. These V10's are wonderfully balanced motors. Smooth, quiet and good power. I would look at the Tow ratings for this Truck and see If it will do the job. If the price and miles were right I'd go for it. If you do this I recommend using Synthetic oils. Especially in the Motor and Rear End. A well taken care of V10 with synthetics should make 200,000 miles with out any big engine problems. There are the Old School people that still believe a gas motor is only good for 100,000 mi. but with the improvements in the manufacturing process and synthetic oils it has doubled.

Has this Truck been well taken care of?

It's going to take a minute or so longer to climb that mountain pass, but you'll make it. There's a number of pluses to having a gasser, but I don't wish to stir up the Diesel guys so I'll let it go there.

Wish you good luck and Happy Camping

kdeiss · 02-15-2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Good fuel milage a towing a Rv do not belong in the same sentence. I have a gas motor Chevy that gets a solid 9 to 11 MPG when towing.I belong to a rather large camping group and the reality is that gas, diesel, whatever 9-11 MPG in a pickup is about average. We just ordered the F-350 V10 Ford with the 4:30 Diff.We have several in our camping group and 9-11 is average. Of course driving conditions vary.remember just about everyone stretches the truth when it comes to "gas milage. Diesel SHOULD get a mile or two Better fuel milage.If the cost vs benefits are worth it Your "accountant wife" I have one of those also. can crunch the numbers on that one. Right now here in Ohio Gas is Average 1.85 diesel 2.19//diesel no advantage. If they were the SAME price with a motor cost diff of @ 5,000.00 wife figured it would take @5.65 years at 1000,000 miles per year to break even.
Bottom line..get the motor that suits your needs.

Rich, Good post I remember an article that stated the break even point of diesel/Gas was like 90,000 miles

richfaa · 02-15-2005, 01:01 PM

A comment on gas motors lasting longer. My dad had a trucking firm in the 50's and 60's and 100,000 miles on a gas motor was almost unheard of.We did constant motor rebuilds..I am a part time school bus driver and we have three gas busses (airport type vans) and the lowest milage on them is 158,000 miles and they run strong.We change the oil every 3,000 miles and none of them burn a quart between changes. They are chevy motors 350 and 454's

richfaa · 02-15-2005, 01:20 PM

Here is a word problem for all of you..papers will be graded.You have two motors one Gas one diesel,The gas motor gets 10MPG while towing. The diesel gets 14mpg while towing. For ease of calculations the price of both diesel and gas fuel is 2.00 per gal.

The price of a diesel (Ford) over the V-10 is 5,100.00 (as per this date see Fo Mo Co.
How many miles will you have to travel to break EVEN by having the diesel.

This is NOT a question of which is the better Motor.

azstar · 02-15-2005, 01:41 PM

Be careful Rich, your going to get them stirred up.

Not another PT School Bus Driver. ( Me Too )

My wife is my Bus Aide

sreigle · 02-15-2005, 04:22 PM

George and Janet, when we started our fulltiming life almost two years ago we did it with a 1999 F350, XLT, supercab, shortbed, V10, automatic, 3.73 rear axle. Our Montana at that time scaled at 13,980 lbs, which admittedly is over the GVWR, GCWR, and tow ratings of that particular truck in the 1999 vintage. When we started fulltiming the truck had 39k miles on it. We put another 29k on it while fulltiming. The truck did a beautiful job of towing this Montana (same Montana we have today). The truck was never ever in the shop for any kind of repair, just standard fluid and filter changes. And that truck never once required any additional oil between oil changes at 3000 to 3500 miles, sometimes 4000. In fact, when I checked just before the oil change it was still on the full mark. The truck was excellent for towing. But eventually the diesel bug bit and we traded.

Gas mileage, as others said, is the weak side of these big gas engines. I'm not going to debate here the merits of diesel mileage vs gas nor the initial cost of diesel vs gas. I think you're wanting to know real life experiences with a truck similar to the one you are considering. So, gas mileage. Towing, running usually about 65mph, sometimes 60, very occasionally 70, depending on speed limits and our degree of hurry, we averaged 8.2 mpg. That overall average includes traveling all kinds of terrain between both coasts a couple of times including Interstate 70 the length of Colorado from west to east. It includes Vail Pass on that stretch and climbing to the Eisenhower Tunnel at over 11,000 feet.

Solo mileage was not a whole lot better. Around town, we averaged 11 to 12. That's pure city with some city freeway driving. Highway driving, usually around 75 mph, we averaged anywhere from 13 to 15, usually 13 to 14. Flatland or mountains didn't seem to make a significant difference when solo.

I rarely drive for max mileage. I drive for conditions and degree of hurry. Mileage is whatever it gets. I hope this gives you an idea of what to expect. It's just our experience with a similar truck and your mileage may vary (did I really say that??!!). Good luck, you'll find that truck is excellent for towing. By the way, the horsepower of the V10 was increased in the 2000 model over what our 1999 had. I think the torque was, too, but am not sure.

Dental Floss Tycoon · 02-16-2005, 09:52 AM

I am more concerned with reliability than fuel mileage, especially with the 4.30 gears. This truck is mint with approximately 62,000 miles and just enough toys to keep me happy.

Thanks all for the great info. Now, just to convince Janet

richfaa · 02-16-2005, 01:57 PM

We just ordered a 2005 version of almost the same truck..Don't think reliability will be a issue. If we were real concerned about a couple of miles diff in fuel milage we would not be driving these big trucks pulling these big RV's.

azstar · 02-16-2005, 02:11 PM

George,

You could always try Jewelry.

I should have said more about the rear differential, to make sure you are aware of the severe pressure that's put on the oil in that Diff. when towing a heavy load. I believe all the big TV's today are coming from the factory with Synthetic oil in the Rear Diff., but I know that back in 2000 Dodge for one was still using Pet. oil in theirs.

When Towing these Differentials can really get HOT. I have measured mine as high as 235 deg. You wouldn't want to touch that. I also discovered my Dealer was putting the "normal" use weight oil in my Diff. instead of the Tow weight oil.

So if you buy enough Jewelry and you get this TV. Make sure you put the Synthetic Tow Weight Oil recommended by Ford in that Diff. I have been very happy with Amsoil in the Differential.

Happy Camping

sreigle · 02-16-2005, 03:04 PM

Rich, the price of the diesel in the '05 is 5100 but when we bought our '99 V10 it also had a premium price. I think it was around 1000 at that time, maybe 700. So the diesel price is above the V10 but not the whole 5100.

Also, a few years ago one of the magazines did a non-scientific calculation that showed the breakeven point, financially, of diesel over gas was 188,000 miles. That took into account the purchase price plus the maintenance and fuel costs. That was when diesel was cheaper than gas so that number likely is higher now. I later read another article that said the breakeven is actually lower than that number because it didn't consider trade value. The diesel apparently gets most of that premium, if not all, back on trade, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape. So who knows where the breakeven really is. But, then, I didn't buy the diesel with that in mind but with it's long term reliability and towing ability in mind. My personal opinion is a buyer should get whichever engine he/she is more comfortable that it fits their needs and desires. Both can do a great job.

richfaa · 02-17-2005, 12:00 PM

Azstar..good info on the tow weight oil for the diff.I never thought about that. I will ask my Ford Dealer what my New F-350 is using....does anyone know?????

sreigle · 02-18-2005, 09:00 AM

The Ford SuperDutys come with synthetic in the pumpkin. Clear back in our '99 this was true as it is today.

Bill DeMeulle · 02-19-2005, 09:48 AM

I have a 2002 Ford V-10 crew-cab pulling a 2003 Montana 3280,the truck is modified with the GearVender Trans. and a 4.30 rear end.I have no towing problems with this combination and will never have another towing vehicle without the GearVender addition.

Go Pokes · 02-20-2005, 06:33 AM

From our personal experience the Dodge diesel is extremely reliable. We have had both a 1994 and a 1996 with over 400,000 miles each. The l994 as totaled in a wreck -- not one was hurt-- and insurance paid $10,000 for it but Bruce was upset because he want to see how far the 1994 would go with any engine repairs.The 1996 is still running with any engine repairs. All these miles 800,000 were pulling a cargo trailer in our business. Even with over 400,000 miles both trucks were worth between $9000 and 10,000. Of course with this past we choosen a Dodge Dully Diesel for our TV for the Montana. With TLC and oil changes the diesel will give you many, many miles.

Jeff Heiser · 02-21-2005, 08:59 AM

We drive a 1999 454 Chevy Vortec Crew Cab Dually as a daily driver and TV. Mileage stinks but who cares. It now has 113000 miles on it and pulls as good today as when it was first pulled off the lot in 1999. Our feeling is if you buy big toys and have to worry about what it costs to play with them, then you shouldnt be buying big toys (my wife's favorite saying). Our TV gets between 7 and 9 mpg towing depending on how fast I drive and terrain. When not towing I get between 10 and 13 all depending on my driving manners. My point is this: I bought my truck because the deal was great, it looked good, suited what I needed in a truck and it was available when I went looking. Regardless of brand if that criteria was met I was buying. Not once did I consider fuel mileage. I have added goodies to it and I do get much better (consistent) fuel mileage. I hope to get 200k plus off the old gasser and should have that in the next year or so. Then I get to go buy one of the BIG BOYS - 550/5500 class truck (dont tell my wife).

Jeff Heiser
Merritt Island Florida

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