Declining Quality

[reinell30]

Why has the Montana, and when did the Montana get built so shabby. I for one can't understand where the quality control has gone? My son just took delivery of a new 2020 Montana today. Doors that wouldn't latch, one battery instead of Two (He ordered Two) LED lights missing on the outside, half there and half missing, Master Bedroom TV not there, nail holes partially filled with putty, etc..... This should not happen! poor quality control at factory needs to get fixed! I shutter to think what will happen on his 1st trip out, will the furnace work, will toilet flush, will the sewer drain,? Small things so far, but no reason for it. Keystone fix it!

[PNW Fireguy]

Maximum production to achieve maximum profit in a boom economy that executives know won’t last forever. They sell to distribution network and manufacturers get paid. Worry about problems later or dealers responsibility.

[Montana Man]

X2 pnw fireguy. If he took delivery today, there will be a list of problems to be found that were not visible to the eye. Keystone's lack of quality at assembly is gaining them a well deserved reputation. Advise taking the trailer out and purposely work the snot out of every system. Take two pens and plenty of paper for listing things for the dealer to fix.

[wed]

Just left factory and the checking is on going and improved!
Please have dealer fix the issues.
Ed

[mhs4771]

BUT, Keystone just opened another PDI Facility to check all units before shipment.

[mlh]

What I think I have noticed on this form is the people with older units are pleased with the quality and people who recently bought a unit not so much.
Lynwood

[richfaa]

Except for added technology and the 6 point leveling system we see little if any difference in quality of workmanship between our 06 3400 and this 13 3402 Bigsky. We tour the factory every year at the fall rally and last year the line was as crowded as we have ever seen it. The economy is booming and the manufacturers ,all of them know it will bust.We have been there when the unemployment rate was 26% plus.They are making as many as they can.

[AZ Traveler]

I would question why he took delivery before these issues were corrected. Most of the issues sound like the dealer vice the factory.

[PNW Fireguy]

Originally Posted by mlh

What I think I have noticed on this form is the people with older units are pleased with the quality and people who recently bought a unit not so much.
Lynwood

I am happy with our 2015 Montana. We did a very thorough PDI and addressed most of the issues which were documented failure points ahead of failure. For example we change the tires before taking delivery. We changed out the toilet at the first sign of the seal leaking. We have added some upgrades like disc brakes and IS (at the rally). This "quality" is not exclusive to Keystone or the Montana line. A really thorough PDI is the place to start. The information I was exposed to from this forum prior to our purchase definitely prepared us for the journey. All together being an informed consumer makes a difference.

[CaptnJohn]

We picked up a new 3761FL 3 weeks ago. Took it out 5 days with pen in hand. Found nothing that needed attention. I had zero adjustments to make. Same zero items during a long PDI and I have done well over a dozen.
What I do not like is the washing machine empties into the 1/2 bath black tank, why not gray? I can live with that.
Leaving this week for a 2 week trip of only 800 miles and will give it another workout.

[druryg]

How can you take delivery with these issues? I would have walked!

As a 2008 owner the quality was much better. We custom ordered in December of 2007 and received in February of 2008. I felt the decals were going to be an issue as some were already lifting on the slide frames at delivery. That proved true and worse than thought. Other than the transmitter on the cap for the rear camera which was poorly sealed and one recliner arm that split, the Rig had has been rock solid. Our dealer was a great help to resolve the minor issues incurred in the first 6 months. I replaced the parts myself wanting piece of mind. 11 years later that is basically all that was fixed short of a vacuum breaker on the black tank flush line that failed around 2011. 2006-2008 seems to be the line in quality. I have visited my trusted dealer over the years and walked all the new models and was disappointed with the newer rigs every visit. The bling is there but the quality is gone!

[reinell30]

Just to add to the poor experience of quality. The dealer took care of the initial items before my son towed his unit home. When he arrived at home, he unhooked, leveled it and opened the slides. He had neighbors who wanted to look. After their look, my put in the slides. While the slides were coming in, he heard a loud crack noise. He stopped and looked for what might have made the noise. The slides coming in hit the ceiling fan and broke one of the blades. Now how the hell can this happen? I am guessing the fan blades weren't tightened at factory and the vibration of going down the road loosened the blade so it hung too low, just a theory. Who knows what he will find down the road? The RV dealer is over 170 miles away.
This ordeal is not making me feel real good about another Montana! I have the 2007 3500RL and for the most part no big issues. This spring I had to replace the linoleum in the kitchen as it cracked from the extreme cold winter.
I have only owned Keystone products, I wonder how other RV's are built, do they have the same kind of quality issues?

[daveinaz]

Originally Posted by reinell30

I have only owned Keystone products, I wonder how other RV's are built, do they have the same kind of quality issues?

From what I'm seeing, my impression is that the quality (or lack of it) is about the same across all brands for units within that price point. From reading posts, I am also under the impression that older units tended to be built a little better.

A while back I was talking to a guy who's been in the industry for over 30 years. He said that after the 2008 crash, the quality of all mainstream brands went down. He said that the higher end units like Carriage continued to be better. He advised that if I was going to buy a used unit, to get a 2008 or earlier unit unless I was going for high-end used ones. I'm not sure how true that is, but with the RV industry events associated with the big recession, it seems to make sense. I looked at a 2007 Carriage and while it clearly had higher quality, it wasn't worth the 50% price increase over something from Keystone.

I also agree with an earlier comment about newer ones having more flash and bling, but not the underlying quality. I saw the same thing when looking at manufacturer homes years ago.

While our 2008 has some normal wear and tear, it seems solid overall and seems to have held up well for its age -- no bulging walls, floors, or panels, and when I took off the cholorplast the underside looked pristine. Actually, that reminds me of the one factory defect that I discovered with this one and that was the poorly installed hydraulic line. When it burst, in the process of replacing it, I found that the original hose had been installed from the factory with a 180 degree hard kink in it. I was surprised it had worked at all! It looks like it happened because instead of fully straightening the hose and getting all the loops out of it before installing it, they left one loop in the hose and when they straightened it during installation, it just created a hard kink in the hose.

I think if we decide to get rid of our 2008 Montana that we will move to a slightly smaller, higher end unit like a DRV or Grand Design.

[reinell30]

I too like the looks of the DRV Elite Suites, Nashville 44. I have only seen these on-line as no one in Montana handles these. I also like the looks of the Heartland, Landmark Phoenix. Again, I have only seen on-line as no one handles these in Montana. I live in a state where the RV market is mostly for weekend campers, not full time RVers. I will be patient in my search for a new 5th wheel. Maybe Keystone will wise up and fix the quality issue!

[BiggarView]

Quite a difference between a 44' DRV and any Monty by any metric you want to choose. Decide your budget first, then find a floor plan that works for you that fits your budget. Then decide which RV builder with that floor plan best executes it from build quality, to sales, to service, to whatever other factors are important to you. There will be more factors in the decision if you are comparing DRV and Keystone. DRVs are considerably heavier and you may need more truck to tow it than you currently have or are planning on. Higher price means higher insurance. Keystone Montana holds up well for its target market, at least anecdotally. So does DRV but they are not really competing against each other.

Just food for thought.

[PNW Fireguy]

Originally Posted by reinell30

I too like the looks of the DRV Elite Suites, Nashville 44. I have only seen these on-line as no one in Montana handles these. I also like the looks of the Heartland, Landmark Phoenix. Again, I have only seen on-line as no one handles these in Montana. I live in a state where the RV market is mostly for weekend campers, not full time RVers. I will be patient in my search for a new 5th wheel. Maybe Keystone will wise up and fix the quality issue!

All of those brands that you mentioned have issues too. Go onto their user forums and you might be surprised by what you find. I had looked at those brands before I purchased our Montana. I even went so far as to create a design/floorplan with a custom builder in Kansas. It is a bit of apples and oranges comparison but I decided on the Montana for reasons that made sense for us as we weren't sure if we were going to enjoy the lifestyle.

[team bradfield]

We are very happy with the quality of our 2017, We've had it on 3-4,000 mile trips with only small issues. FYI this is our 5th rig over the past 20 years and understand, some things are going to happen, Just like our S&B, over the last 25 years things have had to be fixed.

[CaptnJohn]

What makes you think GD is superior? This one did not make it a short distance from the dealer home,,,

[Rondo]

mhs4771-- Keystone did indeed build a new PDI building BUT they are not PDI'ing each and every unit that comes off the line. This is suppose tobe done by the section supervisor at each station as the units move down the line. They are pulling a unit off the lot or off the line and pull it into the PDI building and do a thorough inspection of the unit. Also several of the executives at Montana Division are randomly pulling a unit off the line or the lot waiting for departure to the dealers or customer weekly and doing their own PDI. If an area shows up as a problem two times or more, the team leader/supervisor for that area is called in and made aware of the problem and is expected to correct this problem. We just returned from Goshen and our organizational meeting with the Montana executives for the upcoming Fall Rally and this is what we were told and saw. We think this is a great way for Keystone and the Montana Division will improve the QC on the units going out to the dealers.

[socoinc]

What does PDI stand for?