Arctic Package

[Montana_657]

I can only speak for the /03 3670RL. The furnace is under the sink. A 4 inch round duct from the furnace has a 4 to 2 inch adapter attached. A foil 2 inch duct about 24 inches long goes through the floor under the sink into the tank spaces.

Now that I sit here and think about it, I think I'm gonna give some thought to running a 4 inch duct up to the bedroom from this point with at least a manual damper to diret heat between tank or bed room. Thermostatic control may take a bit more work.

Great part about this forum.. it makes you think.

[Thunderman]

quote:Originally posted by Random Line

Just spent last 2 weeks of November in Aberdeen, SD in our Montana. Ran furnace quite a bit. About 10 to 12 # of propane a day. Avg temps 35 F daily highs 10 to 15 nightly lows. Ran two electric heaters at night. One blowing into pump compartment. One blowing into kitch cabinet space.

Kitchen water (from storage tank) usually frozen until about noon.
Bathroom sink cold (very cold) water never froze nor did stool.

Everything works much better here now in Oklahoma.

Random Line,
When you ran the two electric heaters, did it not blow the breaker? I have one heater and if anything else is on the breaker will eventually go. Plan on putting another plug in using the breaker which was originally for the extra a/c. The breaker is a 20 amp, Thanks
Have arctic pack and dual pane windows. Although I am not sure that one of the exchanged windows from Customer Service back in Oct wasn't a single pane. Have to check into that.


Still got by fairly well in our MOntana. end

[cargary]

Steve & Gruffy:
It most likely is like yours Gruffy, that is undampered. As our 3400rl is in storage around 50 miles away, its not easy to run out to the backyard to check to see what our unit has. Gruffy, as I don't know what our unit has for a duct size to the bedroom, is yours smaller than the 4 inch? If it is, what size is the bedroom heat carrier? My guess, without seeing it, would have been the 4 inch size. Anything less, would appear not large enough to do a good job. Also, wouldn't it also be better to increase the size to the belly as this is a large area, with a manual dampener in the line? Just some thoughts.
Thanks for the replies Gruffy and Steve.
Gary & Caole

[Montana_657]

Our bedroom has two 4 inch flex ducts, but both are on the kitchen side of the bed. One in front of the shower, one nearer to the bed. They do not put out enough heat to keep the bedroom the same temperature as the lounge.

I have a temperature probe added to the tank spaces. They stay above freezeing right down to -3F so far...What the tank space could really use is some insulation over the steel I beams that form the ends of the space...next summers project.

[cargary]

Gruffy:
I also plan to do some insulating in the belly area next spring. I haven't been into it (the belly) area yet, but from what you and others have said, it certainly needs alot of help. Is it much of a job getting access to the belly?
Gary & Carole

[Montana_2694]

I've been following this subject but have to ask the questions because we may use it during the winter next year. Is the "belly" the space where the tanks are located and where access to them is gained by dropping the plastic bottom that lines the length of the trailer underneath? Or is it the luggage compartment occupying the same space as the laundry shoot?

Looking at literature, it does state "heated holding tanks." From what I'm gathering from reading here, when the furnace is operating, it's venting warmed air into the compartment occupied by the holding tanks as well as the living area. Is this correct or is there an electric heating device surrounding the tanks that runs off of battery/shore power?

[sreigle]

Smoketrain, the first part of each paragraph is correct. The belly has the tanks, is below the floor of the downstairs area and has a cover below it that you can see underneath. The furnace has a two-inch duct into that area and pumps heated air in there when the furnace is running. Thus the need to make sure the furnace runs in subfreezing weather.

Random Line, I'd bet the low point drains are what got you. We had that problem last winter. When the temp got below about 20 outside they froze up into the belly, into the water line tee and shut off water flow. A hair dryer thawed them out.

Thunderman, we run two electric heaters but only one can be on high (1500 watts) while the other runs on low. Also, we need to make sure they're on different circuits. For us the heavily used circuit is the gfci circuit. When we have a heater going downstairs we plug the upstairs heater into the outlet on the front bedroom closet wall. That's a different circuit in ours. The outlets at the other end of the dresser, by the bathroom, are on the gfci circuit. We can have both heaters going along with the furnace, the tv's, two computers, several lights, fridge, but we need to turn off the electric water heater element. Otherwise when the furnace motor kicks on it will pop a breaker. Also if we want to use a hair dryer or microwave one of the heaters needs to be turned off. Or the furnace.

[Montana_657]

What Steve said is true..

The biggest hassle with the belly is working on your back with the dirt falling into your face. The self tapping (drill & tap) screws they use tend to get rusty and don't like to go back in. The easy way to go is to remove a sample and buy a box (100for $10.00). Also buy some 1/4 inch fender washers as you will find spots where the screw heads have pulled through the material dowm there.

So all you need is a 3/8 wrench and a power driver... a soft grassy place to lay on your back and work... and in you go.

[Random Line]

[quote]Originally posted by Thunderman

[quote]Originally posted by Random Line
---------------
Everything works much better here now in Oklahoma. (Now in Phoenix/ Glendale) Furnace quit on road at Albuquerque. Probably limit switch again. Waranty expires tomorrow. Repair is covered. Scheduled for Monday. (Recent edit to our RL quote)
---------------

Random Line,
When you ran the two electric heaters, did it not blow the breaker? I have one heater and if anything else is on the breaker will eventually go. Plan on putting another plug in using the breaker which was originally for the extra a/c. The breaker is a 20 amp, Thanks
Have arctic pack and dual pane windows. Although I am not sure that one of the exchanged windows from Customer Service back in Oct wasn't a single pane. Have to check into that.
--------------

Good observation!!

We were in a park at Aberdeen with good 50 amp service. But we did have to keep our two 1500 watt heaters. (each with a blower) on separate circuts or we would trip the onboard breaker.

On thing we neglected to think of at the time was the electric element on the hot water tank. If the electric heaters were running. a TV or two, possible the microwave and then if the inverter or the hotwater tank element kicked in-- OVERLOAD-- THE 50 AMP BREAKER ON THE POST WOULD KICK OUT.

We should have turned off the electric hot water heater element and managed our electrical demand more thoughtfully.

Also in that 10 degree range we would fill our onboard tank and use it. We then disconected and drained our supply hoses. That ladder on the back makes a good hose rack for 75 foot of hose and the drain process.

A few of the warmer nights we did leave the hose connected and sinced we were connected to the sewer just let it trickle all night. But we did worry about freezing up a drain hose full of ice a couple of times. Scary.

Going south was the best solution. But we think we can figure out how to winter camp and have fun with some adjustments in the use of utilities. And a lot of propane.

RL

[Random Line]

Steve,

Theat could be it. We just figured with that no split plastic pipe that Keystone uses just letting the low points freeze was not a problem. But as you say that cold probably progresses up the line to an important junction.

If a person had a model 2955 (rear door) it would be possible to keep the waterline supply pipes in the basement and above the main floor level and enter the cabinet from the basement through the side wall where it would be easier to keep them warm or at least above freezing. With our 3255 (middle door) the water to the kitchen sink must go under the floor. (cool country)

One day I will have to make a plan for improvement and go into the belly of that whale. I will gather up all the good ideas I see here in the interim.

Have a Happy and Blessed Christmas and everybody else do the same.
Travel safe.

[Montana_676]

ps,excuse my typing and my grammer.artic for crying out loud.arctic please excuse.

[Montana_676]

grammar,Iv'e been at this computer way too long!

[sreigle]

Rickochet, we haven't had ours freeze up at the connection (yet) in two winters in the Kansas City area but the heat tape on the hose runs right up to the connector. Plus I wrap it with some more insulation at the ocnnection point and fill the whole water connection tub with loose insulation before closing and locking the door. So far, so good. Wish I could say the same for the low point drains. I just today heat taped those and plugged it in. We're still waiting for it to thaw out so we have water. At least we have cold water in the bathroom. Last night's low was 10 with a high today around 20. Tomorrow it's to reach 50 so we should have water by then. Later in the week they forecast lows of 9, 5, and 6, over three successive nights. This is a test of my will. We may have to bodily move our kids to somewhere warm so we can do the holidays with them without this trial.

[Montana_676]

Steve & miss Vicki,Bless your hearts, I know what your dealing with.We had six" of snow yesterday and it was 9 degrees this morning.Clear skys now but cold,and its supposed to be colder yet tommorrow.But 50's next week.Good ole central Ar.Yet Kansas city most likely got hit harder.If I remember corrctly kc's only about 250 miles from Des Moines and as you know thats one winter I'll never forget.So while Im grateful my fivers parked with me working close to home,My advice to you is to "Hogtie them yung'uns,tro em in the back of that ole pick em up truck,and get the heck outta Dodge".Until the next time,Happy holidays,Take care & stay safe,Rick and dori.

[cooksters]

Wow, We just got back from vacation in Wis were it was butt-cold. Ever see grumpy old men? That's what I did, spent time in the fish shack telling lies to my brother-in-law. We did not take the 5th wheel as we flew there for the holidays. I had been thinking all the while we were gone...I wonder how many more ideas, stories, suggestions, and tips will be on the MOC. Thanks so much everyone, what great information. I can see that in order to minimize the potential for serious problems one should take the time to prepare their Monty for freezing temps. I also noticed that this is a topic of great concern for many owners from the amount of traffic. But I also noticed that many fortunate folks read, but don't have to comment, they must be the fortunate and smart ones that say, "Honey aren't you glad that we stay where it's warm"!
I can see myself now getting her ready by dropping that belly pan and getting busy. I like to even the playing field and be prepared. Thanks so much again folks...
cooksters

[Montana_2785]

Hi gang,

I've been reading this thread with some interest as I just got our unmodified 3757RL a month ago. While I won't be spending a lot of time in it during cold weather like some of you, I think we may strike out during cold weather to extend our "camping" season.

On the topic of using the propane furnace in really cold weather, what you might consider is forcing some of the electrically heated air into the belly. Consider rigging this duct booster fan to do the job.

http://www.smarthome.com/3011.html

That way, you could even out the heat without having that noisy propane blower running all the time. Of course, I wouldn't want to play games like this without having instrumented the belly first so I know what is going on...

If you have replaced the original thermostate, you might even be able to re-use the old thermostat down in the belly to regulate the booster fan!

One other thought:

If you are placing insulation on the inside of the frame rails, make sure that it is removed before doing any welding on the outside. I only mention it because I have some tire damage to an outside bracket that will require welding to repair. If nothing else, you might put a placard on the outside of the rail to remind people to remove the insulation before welding. Since welding the frame is a rare event, it would be very easy to forget...

[Montana_657]

The cost of the fan-in-duct would be as much or more then a cheap electric heater with thermostat installed..... why fool around??? If you want to go electric put a space heater down there and forget it.

However, leave the propane in place cause on the road running off 12 volts you will need it.

By the way the factory has all sorts of hydraulic lines wires etc. up against the frame on the inside... if you want to weld to the frame...drop the belly pan and have the fire extinguisher ready.

[Montana_2785]

Gruffy,

I would be go the fan route because I would not be comfortable putting a space heater in a small enclosed area like the belly. Every space heater I've seen warns to leave a three foot space in front of and above the heater to prevent the chance of a fire due to over heating. Blowing warm air is a no risk operation.

Eric

[larryngail]

I'm in San Diego....and still recommend some Ugg Boots and a Hoodie.

[sreigle]

Rickochet, your central AR comment made me check your profile to see where you are, then look at my mapping software. I believe we passed just a few miles from you (we were on I-40) this past Wednesday. We barely (maybe an hour) got out of Kansas City ahead of the ice storm about 3pm on Tuesday. Stopped overnight about 40 miles north of Fort Smith, on US 71. Then took I-40 through Arkansas. Here in Perry, GA, it was in the seventies today. Last night we didn't even turn on the furnace or the electric heaters. .

I had to chip ice off the north side of one of the landing gear to get the leg up and we had some ice on the north side of the Montana but the roads had been pre-treated and were ice-free when I drove them. I got home at 2:55, told Vicki "let's go, now, before we get iced in." Otherwise we'd have been there until Friday. Anyhow, we pulled out twenty minutes later. An hour south of Kansas City it was above freezing (per the truck's outside thermometer) so I could start to relax, although the heavy rain and heavy traffic were not exactly a lot of fun.

Eric and the others. Interesting ideas about additional heat to the belly. I will look into these things before next winter. I'm wondering if I can fashion some kind of trap door in the kitchen island Where I maybe could insert some removable ducting and put a forced air heater in the coach itself. Will have to look into this. A fan just bringing in coach air would work, too, and it's back in the kitchen area where I think we're most susceptible in the belly. Thanks to all for the ideas.