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Old 02-18-2007, 02:47 PM   #1
Montana Sky
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Article on ULSD Fuel

http://www.lancasterfarming.com/node/429

Here is an interesting article on the new ULSD fuel gelling in cold temps.
 
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:46 PM   #2
BigAl52
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Sky
Just some notes from my own personal experience. Here in Colorado we have had one hell of a winter with lots of snow and very cold temps. One morning on the way to work it was 17 below on my Dodge temp gauge. I never had any trouble with my personal vehicle but I also use the Amsoil fuel treatment and the Cetane boost. I know all of the manufactuers say you don't need the additive but I like to cover my own base. I did however have trouble with my truck that I drive at work. The fuel filter that we normally use filters to fine so we had to use a filter that would allow more flow. They told me that the finer filters wax over easier and the fuel was not actually geling it was waxing and forming a film on top. You could see this film in the fuel tank. Just some info to pass along to go with the article. Al
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:36 PM   #3
Montana Sky
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Al,
Thanks for the info. I run the GM Diesel Fuel Conditioner in my truck, so far I have not had a problem with the fuel gelling. I think it is going to be real interesting in the upcoming years to see what type of long term effect this new fuel is going to have on all the diesel motors that are "pre" ULSD.
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:06 AM   #4
CanDo
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I am relatively new to this diesel engine ownership thing and have a few questions. I have never used any type of fuel additive in either truck. In my 2004 Dodge 3500 I did not have an engine block heater and had no trouble starting the turbo Cummings in cold weather. In my 2007 (manufactured in August 2006) I do have the block heater and I use it all the time - except, of course, when CRS sets in!!! Even when I do forget, I have never had any problems starting the engine. My Dodge dealer assured me that my diesel is a pre-ULSD engine and that I will be ok with any diesel fuel. They never mentioned anything about additives either. Questions: In your opinion, should I be using some type of diesel additive? If so, why and what type do you recommend? I have never seen anything at the stations where I buy diesel that says they sell ULSD - is this something that is on the way or do they just sell it withiut saying anything? HELP!!! Thanks in advance for your help!
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:29 AM   #5
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Chris and Dave: First to address your last question/item: By law, every diesel pump is supposed to have a label attached (as of mid-October 2006) stating whether it is 500ppm diesel or the ULSD (15ppm); it is a rather small 4 by 6 inch decal posted on the front of the pump in these parts. In my limited winter travels I've seen about a 50/50 split on 500 and 15 ppm stations so far -- they have to get enough diesel through their tanks sold, then have them tested to ensure that what you are buying meets the 15ppm requirements before they can put that label on. My 'daily' fuel point just got his tested last week for the 4th time, last time he was just about at the cut point to change his labels.

Now for the additive: A lot of different discussions here and on other boards. I have the same engine as you (2006 Dodge Ram 3500 Quadcab here) -- I personally run PowerService white bottle that I get a Wally world; neighbor runs STP Diesel treatment. Neither of us have had any concerns one way or the other; just feel better adding it for added lubrication (ULSD has less native lube for injectors and injector pump than 500 ppm but oil company is supposed to be putting in additives to meet specs before it leaves the terminal); and then the anti-gelling capabilities. Being an aviator I'm also concerned with water and other nasty things that can grow in our tanks. Opinions abound - do what you feel best and what your dealer supports, but in all cases, enjoy the new vehicle -- you got on that will last you a long time!!

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Old 02-19-2007, 03:37 AM   #6
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CanDo, I am like you I don't see any stickers on any pumps in my area either. I asked my dealer where i purchase my fuel and he told me I was burning the new diesel. He went on to say that there is a statement in the new rules that say he can sell ULSD as LSD. He said most dealers around here have chose to do that. The reason is because the fine is $32,000.00 if the fuel does not meet the new PPM requirements. The fine is placed on the selling dealer not the supplier. Being that all the refineries have not switched over no one wants to take a chance of getting some fuel that is contaminated from a supplier. So until all the refineries are all switched over they are not going to put the new ULSD stickers on the pumps.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:52 AM   #7
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From OPISnet.com (Monday, Feb 19th)Full post of the article as shown -- couple of things to note -- they can be fined for not having either label; they can only downgrade 20% of their total volume sales during this transition period.) I feel for the retailers !!!

Article follows -- sorry for the length. --------------

December 13, 2006
EPA Warns Marketers Still Failing To Comply With Diesel Labeling Requirement

Nationwide, some 12% of diesel retailers are breaking the law because they have not complied with dispenser labeling requirements in the diesel sulfur rule that went into effect on June 1, warns EPA.

Currently, EPA is issuing warning letters to retailers found in violation but plans to start dishing out fines in the near future, agency officials told the Petroleum Marketers Assn. of America and other industry groups at a meeting last week. Fines for labeling violations can be as high as $32,500/day.

EPA recently conducted a survey of 979 retail locations. Of those, 44% of dispensers were labeled with the ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) label, 39% had a low-sulfur diesel (LSD) label, while 12% had no label at all.

EPA has also expressed concern about the number of dispensers sporting low- sulfur diesel labels, since more than 90% of fuel currently produced by refiners is ULSD.

Officials at PMAA assured EPA that many of the stations with LSD labels were likely still in the process of converting their tanks to ULSD and would change the label when the conversions are complete. EPA regs allow retailers to downgrade ULSD to LSD, and subsequently label their dispensers as LSD, but they are only allowed to downgrade 20% of their volume between Oct. 15, 2006 and May 31, 2007.

EPA said it intended to focus on wholesale purchaser-consumer locations next. As exclusively reported by Oil Express 10/30/06, results from the first round of testing by the refiner-funded RFG Survey Assn. that started Oct. 16 showed most problems at retail sites involved labeling.

If you aren't properly labeling your pumps you are at risk for steep fines. If you haven't purchased pump decals yet, OPIS has 8 different decals available.

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Old 02-19-2007, 10:54 AM   #8
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And one more site (then I'll quit, I promise - this one from Chevrom.com - FAQs:

What are diesel dispenser pump labeling requirements?
The EPA regulations require that the sulfur content of all diesel dispensers in the United States, except California, be communicated to the diesel end-users, using new dispenser labels. This includes the S15 (ULSD), S500 (LSD), and S5000 (HSD) dispensers. The EPA has defined the text for each label and provides specifications as to where the label is to be located on the dispenser. This regulation applies to any dispenser; whether it is at a retail site, commercial site, or is for company's own use.

As of June 1, 2006 each diesel dispenser (except those dispensers in California) must have a label that correctly identifies the type of diesel fuel being sold from that dispenser. Initially, for most on-highway diesel dispensers this will be the S500 (LSD) label. When a dispenser is transitioned to the new ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, the S500 (LSD) or S5000 (HSD) label must then be removed from the dispenser and replaced by an S15 (ULSD) label.

In California, the state has mandated that ULSD be the only fuel available. Therefore, the EPA has exempted California from labeling dispenser pumps.

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Old 02-19-2007, 12:10 PM   #9
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Thanks very much for all the great info. One mor question if I may: how often do you add the fuel additive? I'm hoping that it isn't every tankfull, but if it is, then so be it! Thanks again!
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:34 PM   #10
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Last october I sent an email to Cummins asking then if I should or needed an additive for my new 2006 RAM 3500.
Their reply was simply NO.
If you do a search you should be able to find Cummins comple reply as I recall posting it.
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:04 PM   #11
Tom Gina 06
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Getting back to the fuel gelling. I used additive grey bottle from Deisel Services it has the antigel additive where the white bottle didn't. Wallmart stores up North had both types where I have not seen the gray bottle in the South. Another thing to eliminate water in my fuel was to make sure the tank was full all the time. With heating a cooling the condensation can build up inside the tank on a tank that is not full. Never had a problem when I practiced these two things living where the temp variations could exceed 50 degrees in a day.

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Old 02-19-2007, 01:41 PM   #12
Montana Sky
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GM's Diesel Fuel Conditioner is good for 30 gallons. It comes in a 11oz bottle and cost is about $6 per bottle. Getting the fuel mileage back that I lost from the new ULSD fuel more than pays for the bottle of conditioner. I will not tell anyone how to run their truck. I run the conditioner for my own personal peace of mind. The results I am getting justify why I run it. Do what you feel is best for your truck.
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Amps

Last october I sent an email to Cummins asking then if I should or needed an additive for my new 2006 RAM 3500.
Their reply was simply NO.
If you do a search you should be able to find Cummins comple reply as I recall posting it.
GM told me the same thing...the 07 Classic will burn LSD or ULSD and does not need an additive.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:14 PM   #14
BigAl52
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I am like Sky I won't tell anyone to run the fuel additive in there truck I do it for my own peace of mind. I also run a Cummins.I run the Amsoil Diesel fuel additive along with the Cetane Boost. Each bottle is 16 ounces and will treat 80 gallons. You also need to add it every tank. Al
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Old 02-19-2007, 06:33 PM   #15
skypilot
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Goes back to the ole principle of what your personal threshold is? For me, an extra $2 to $3 per tank for the additive is cheap insurance given the prices that the dealers want to change filters (just knowing that mine will fail when I'm away from home or don't have a spare filter with me). Also, I don't add it every tank when traveling -- but I do keep it in when truck is going to be idle for a couple of weeks.

Finally, as indicated in earlier post, the wholesaler is supposed to be adding lubrication additives to fuel as it leaves the tank farm; I think I'll play it on the 'safe side' for awhile and ensure that my system has some added stuff in there. Once we get some history then I may change my tune.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:05 AM   #16
keham
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On our school bus fleet the first cold day of -15 with the new fuel over half our fleet would not start even though they were plugged in. and when they did get them started they would run about ten minutes and then fuel lite come on and then shut down on the newer models. and older just stopped. they replace filters. would run for ten 15 minute and shut down again. this was the blended ultra low stuff with the additive. Long story short they had to blend more no# 1 into the mix and add a cetane booster. was a mess. they never had this much trouble before even down to 30 below so. I kind of believe it is more the the manufactures quality (low cetane numbers) Because the (ADDITIVE THAT DID THE TRICK IS THE ONE FOR THE CETANE) cetane rating was only testing around 38 to 40 now its at around 50 and all start right up and run like tops.
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Old 02-22-2007, 06:35 AM   #17
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I've never used any additives and have never had fuel problems. I used ULSD down to single digits but did not get into the colder range cited in that article so maybe that's why. I am interested in hearing more about this.

My truck has a block heater but officially does not. Ford puts them in all the 6.0 engines but includes the electrical cord only if you pay for the block heater or live in a state where it is considered a standard item. The cord is available from Ford dealers for around fifty bucks. I never got around to doing that and the truck started fine winter before last at five below (F). However, the next one will have the block heater and the cord as I'm more comfortable with heating the engine in seriously cold weather.
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