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Old 07-23-2006, 04:52 AM   #1
David and Jo-Anna
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350/3500--buy new or used? what MY?

I'm a newbie here who is looking to buy my first 5er and first tow vehicle next spring. I would look to spend the rest of next year getting acustomed to the rig with short trips and then hope to start full timing in early 2008 if I succeed in retiring at the end of 2007. I'm heavily focused on the 3400RL so far and am thinking of what tow vehicle to get to handle it. I've already pretty much decided on a one ton diesel to provide the level of towing capacity and payload that I'd be comfortable with personally. Haven't yet resolved where I come out on the DRW vs. SRW issue or whether to go 4x4 or 4x2, or long bed vs. short bed.

My original plan, for budget reasons, was to buy a used tow vehicle rather than a new one. Because there seem to be far more used Fords than other brands on the market here in northern Virginia, I've been focused on the F350 diesel. I have been looking at the 2005 F350 because of what seem to be higher GCVWRs with the 2005 MY. However, I've read in this forum and elsewhere about problems with some of the 2005 F350s, and I'm increasingly concerned that I'm at risk in getting one of those problem units by buying a used 2005--seems to me that someone is more likely to sell or trade in a two-year-old pickup if that unit is a lemon than if the truck is terific. So I'm wondering if I should be looking to something older or newer than a 2005.

I probably wouldn't want to go older than a 2004 model because I'd like to still have some warranty coverage if I have transmission problems in the first couple of years of towing a heavy Monty. How would 2004 350/3500 diesels compare to a 2005 F350 diesel?

If I look to go new instead of used, I don't have to focus as heavily on Fords because the used truck market in my area becomes less relevant. I haven't looked very much at 2006 units so far because I had not been planning to buy a tow vehicle until next spring. However, I've recently heard something about new emission standards going into effect in 2007 for diesel vehicles. I'm a bit nervous about buying new models in their first year. How are 2007 MY 350/3500s expected to look compared to 2006 units? Does it make sense to grab a 2006 unit before they all disappear even if it means having it parked for most of the next 9 months?
 
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Old 07-23-2006, 07:14 AM   #2
Fordzilla
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With Ford's and maybe the others. The MY 2008 will have the new engine's. I know Ford didn't change the engine much if any from MY 2006 to 2007. I have a 2006 and have had no problems with it to date. But I only have 6k miles on it so far. If I was looking at used fords I would lean towards the 2005's and newer to gain the extra weight capacity. I think you are on the right track looking well ahead so you can do lots of research before making a purchase. But looking at a one ton diesel is a great start. These trailers are not lite and a diesel will serve you for years to come while full timing. I look for the big 3 (Ford, Dodge, and GM) to all have some changes in there diesels over the next year. Even though I am a ford man I will not be buying a new motor the first year of production. Someone else can work the bugs out and I will stick with my '06 for a few years.
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Old 07-23-2006, 07:41 AM   #3
steves
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I agree with Fordzilla. I went for a Ford 06 model as I didn't want to get the new redesigned motors for the ULSD fuel. My 06 F350 has been flawless and handles the Montana great without any aftermarket add ons. I think any of the big 3 will provide good service - it just depend on your likes. Good-luck
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Old 07-23-2006, 07:49 AM   #4
richfaa
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If I were looking for a used Diesel truck ,I would be looking for a 7.3l ford or a 2 or 3 year old Durimax. There are to many unknowns with the new EPA standards and new motors for me to commit to a 05/06 or 07 Diesel motor..any brand.. Just my opinion..means nothing.. Every manufacturer needs folks like Fordzilla(Ford by God) and my lovely wife (Honda by God)..Me..I will buy whatever meets my needs..We did look hard before we purchased the V-10 05 Ford..Could not find anything that suited us and got a great deal on the Ford.
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Old 07-23-2006, 08:33 AM   #5
Montana_1240
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When we decided to buy a fifth-wheel, (2003,) and even before we settled on a brand, I saw a 2002 F-350 CC Lariat dually in Budget Auto Sales in Fairbanks, Alaska. It had only 24,000 miles on it, and was spotless. Because it didn’t come from a Ford dealer, I got no education in diesel, or the truck, in general. So I was thinking at the time that the DRW would mean heavier towing capacity and traction. I figured the 4WD was absolutely necessary…Well, in Fairbanks, it sure is, just to get started on the slick winter roads. And it helped getting out of some spots I was able to get us into, even in my own gravel driveway.

What I wasn’t aware of, (though it seems you know,) was that DRW and 4WD adds to the weight of the vehicle, and takes away from the possible weight of your fifth-wheel. And DRW takes away traction, compared to a SRW TV.

I’ve learned a lot, since then. Never “enough,” of course. But more.

If you buy a used vehicle, (it sure would be nice to know who drove it, but that’s hardly ever possible,) do look into getting one that’s still under warranty, and buy an extended warranty. That’s what we had with the 2002, even though we sold it before ever using the extended warranty. But the tranny troubles our overweight conditions, and my lack of diesel knowledge brought about, were covered by Ford.

If you settle on a Ford, get at least a 2005. They’ve been beefed up that year, and they have the Tow/Haul transmission feature that you will simply love.

I’ve been told that DRW aren’t needed. Still, I have a gnawing feeling in the back of my head that if one tire blows on the rear of the truck, I’m going to have problems. (Tires hardly ever blow in conditions where you can simply let off the accelerator and pull safely over to the side of the road, in MY head!) And I’ve been told that SRW TVs won’t suffer from the breezes speeding 18-wheelers create while passing. I can’t say if there’s a difference. I’ve only had a DRW TV. But I just know I don’t feel those breezes. Only the splashing of road water up onto my windshield as they pass in the rain. And that can make it FEEL as though you’re having a white-knuckle moment, even if you aren’t. I just keep an eye on the centerline to make sure I’m not going to either side. And so far, I’ve stayed right where I was as they pass.

I wonder what will happen to my 6.0, (the 2002 was a 7.3,) when the new EPA specs hit the streets. If the government tells me I must replace the truck, I’ll be in the crowd, right along with millions of others, in a Class Action lawsuit that might last longer than this old carcass will. But I wouldn’t worry too much about buying a new engine. A manufacturer isn’t likely to sell a downright lemon. It’s not financially astute to do that. But be prepared for the old timers to try to make you feel you’ve been taken for a ride. There are still the 7.3 people pointing fingers at every single incident reported by a 6.0 owner, trying to make them feel better in their bias. And I suspect there will be 6.0 people pointing at the next new engine people, claiming they’ve been had, as well. I haven’t had a single engine problem. Still, I am now running on my Ford ESP, warranty, just in case.

I’m only discussing my experiences with Fords, because that’s all the knowledge I have. It’s not to discredit other brands. But you seem to be concerned with issues that concern me. I just feel good with my choice.

I hope that by the time you purchase, you will feel good, as well. You’re leagues ahead of me, though. I did no real research about the TV before buying it.

Steve
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Old 07-23-2006, 10:42 AM   #6
Broome101
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I have had them both 7.3 and 6.0. My 2005 6.0 F350 SRW 4x4, LB will out turn , out run, out maneuverer my old 2001 7.3 10 to 1. It is thus far the best truck I have ever owned. The 2005 is so much more beefed up as Gyro said it's unbelievable. I use tow haul mode on tranny nd for get it, never had minutes trouble out of mine in over 38K miles. My 2001 had three transmissions put in it in less than 32k miles all under warranty but it was a weak truck compared to the 2005. I would not worry at all about the 6.0 so far it has more power than my old 7.3 had.
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Old 07-23-2006, 10:42 AM   #7
emdavis
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david, what ever you get the extened warrenty, that way you will be able to get your truck repaired with very little cash outlay. be sure to get a repitable company for your warrenty. good luck with your hunt.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:11 AM   #8
Fire5er
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As the others have said, GO for the 2005 or newer Ford. I had a 2000 7.3L F-250 and when the 2005 came out with the larger capacity and the integrated braking system, I had to get a new one. I have had the 2006 6.0L F-350 for just over a month now and it is sooooooooooo nice . The new truck turns so much tighter then the old truck... much easier to park in a parking lot. The new truck is much quieter than the old truck. And the tow haul w/ the integrated braking system (pulling a load of wood) sure work great! I can't wait to get the 5er next year!! Good luck on your truck purchase.
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Old 07-25-2006, 02:55 AM   #9
tcorbitt
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Hi David,

There Dodge, Ford, and GM all make good TVs. I have for the past 15 years been driving GMCs. When we decided to move up to the Montana 5th this year, we decided to upgrade the TV. At the time we had a 2500HD GMC Duramax with extended cab. We wanted to move into a crew. I had planned to stay with a GM, but ended up making the switch to a Ford F350 PowerStroke Crew. Why? (a) 1 ton Crew with Single Rears and Short Bed, not offered by GM (needed to go long bed). Dodge had not yet come out with the Mega Cab short bed 1 ton. (b) Integrated brake controller offed by Ford. (c) I liked the idea the Ford was physically larger (taller) and looked like it would brake the wind ahed of the 5th better than the GM. (d) After driving 4 GMCs, we were ready to try something else. (e) Love the King Ranch trim and color that matched the Montana (white/tan)...

8 months and 15K miles later, the truck has been flawless. About 11K of the mileage is towing. Mileage is acceptable (13/gal) in tow and 17-20 without 5th.

Good luck and have fun shopping. TC
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:37 AM   #10
OntMont
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On used trucks, just be cautious about the truck's history. I saw a nice looking 04 Chev DRW with about 30K miles that seemed like a good buy at the time. I noticed that it had the bars for a very heavy 5th wheel hitch. I asked the dealership owner/salesperson about it and he told me that it had a 32K hitch because they used it to haul horses to the race track, and needed that big a hitch to take all the weight they were hauling. 32K on a truck with a 16K max trailer weight did not sit too well with me, so I passed on that truck, also it would not have been owner-driven, so who knows what care it got during its run-in period? It was a leased truck, so what would they have cared?
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Old 07-25-2006, 05:27 AM   #11
David and Jo-Anna
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I appreciate the input from everyone so far. Seems to be very positive feedback from people who have the 2005/2006 F350s, and don't see very much of a push towards Dodge, Chevy or GMC instead of the F350--don't mean to start a war with the non-Ford owners, just observing that no one is suggesting that the Ford 350 would be a mistake and that I should be looking at other manufacturers. Still worried about buying a used vehicle--reinforced by Ontman's comments about the used Chevy he looked at.

If I do go with the a new Ford 350, any reason to worry about waiting until next spring to get a 2007? Just when do those new EPA emission requirements go into effect?
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Old 07-25-2006, 05:42 AM   #12
Montana_1240
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Going forward with John's sage advice, I would say that using CARFAX would be a good idea, as well. I did on that used 2002 I bought.

If you see anything suspicious in the vehicle’s history, run away.

With all the Katrina stuff that's gone on, plus the more recent flooding along the northeast, there'll be plenty of SALVAGED vehicles on the market looking for hapless buyers to swoop in and give premium bucks for something that the laws should never have allowed to be put back on the streets.

And if it’s possible, report the scummy seller to the authorities.

Steve

P.S.

As for brands? Just wait a while. And especially since you mentioned it, you‘ll be hearing from the other TVs’ owners, I’m sure.

But right now, I think the F-350’s got the others beat in GCWVR at 23,500 pounds.

RichFAA, I believe, has mentioned the year the new specs come into play. If memory serves, I think it’s 2008 when Ford will come out with a 6.4L engine.

S.
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Old 07-25-2006, 08:09 AM   #13
richfaa
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That's with the V-10 and 4:30 Diff..The diesel is higher by I think @ 3000lbs.
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:28 AM   #14
Emmel
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Gyro, you haven't looked at the ratings in the last 6 months, have you. The 2006 3500 Duramax-6spd allison now has a whopping 26000 lbs. But wait, Dodge will beat that and then Ford will again too! I think if they don't slow down, there will be some frames starting to twist. By the way, I get GM discount, that makes a difference on what I drive. If I had Ford or Dodge discount, I would drive one of those.
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:36 AM   #15
Montana_1240
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Emmel,

I haven’t been truck shopping since we got the ’05. Heck! I didn’t even know they offered a package with 20” wheels on an F-350!

I do know that Ford had altered their stuff to get past the old standard of 23,000 the other brands had. I suspected copy-catting, or one-ups-man-ship would follow.

26K!

Wow.

It might also be a smart move on your part, owning a GM. Did you see what happened to the Bud beer delivery truck driver who was seen with a Coors? Lost his job!


Steve
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:55 AM   #16
Broome101
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Let me see 26K would require you at least in NC to have a CDL license unless it's a school or church bus.
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:06 AM   #17
Montana_1240
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Broome,

Lettuce spray!

Amen,

Steve
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Old 07-25-2006, 12:58 PM   #18
Broome101
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Amen to that
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:59 PM   #19
Montana Sky
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I love my Duramax and Allison combo. In fact, I love them so much I am already on my 2nd one. This truck has a tad over 56K on it, and towing has been a dream. When the time comes to purchase my next tow vehicle, I am planning on going up in size. Since there is "great debate" on 3/4 ton and 1 ton among the MOC members, I am looking at 2 vehicles that are larger than the 1 ton of all 3 makers. I can say that I tow more than just a 5th wheel with my truck, horse trailers, 32' boat, wave runners, snow mobile trailers and so on. The handling of my truck has me 100% confident in the ability to tow any of the trailers I have had behind it, including my 39'7" Montana.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:31 AM   #20
lightningjack11
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Just completed my annual trip from Florida to Kansas with stops on the Gulf Coast in Mississippi. I did not see any ULSD fuel at the stations which will be required for 2007 models. So if you decide on a 2007 model make sure the fuel is available where you plan to travel.

One station I stopped at in Missouri had both stickers (ULSD and LSD) on the pump. I ask them what kind of fuel it was and they didn't know but they just wanted to be covered on the sticker bit. Lots of confusion out there.

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