Lemons and Lemon laws

[Ozz]

Yes, I have carefully followed all the guidelines, & have the correct paperwork to back all of it up.

[Cat320]

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

Yes, I have carefully followed all the guidelines, & have the correct paperwork to back all of it up.

You can only proceed with a law suit when the weight of the paperwork is equal to or greater than the weight of the truck!

[Ozz]

That's a good one! Yes, I sent him 2 files chuck full of paperwork, $5.12 UPS...

[Steve and Brenda]

For what its worth, one of our travel amigos just had his 2005 F250 PSD bought back by Ford due to the engine failures many PSD owners report. Not related to a tranny clunk but it seems he's getting MSRP back minus depreciation from the first maintenance failure (2000 miles) and plans on ordering a new 2008 F250 PSD tow vehicle.

[Ozz]

Good info, thanks.

[Mac]

This is just a question to all after Steve's post above. If you had such a problem with a brand of vehicle of any kind why would you purchase another? I had a 1998 Dodge pickup that was a lemon from day one, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough and I'd never own another Dodge product. I don't know, maybe it's just me, I guess eventually you couldn't buy anything because you'd eventually get a bad vehicle of any brand.

mac

[Ozz]

It is a tough one, as a mechanical guy, I can see the 'Forest within the trees'

[Carl n Susan]

quote:Originally posted by Steve and Brenda

For what its worth, one of our travel amigos just had his 2005 F250 PSD bought back by Ford due to the engine failures many PSD owners report. Not related to a tranny clunk but it seems he's getting MSRP back minus depreciation from the first maintenance failure (2000 miles) and plans on ordering a new 2008 F250 PSD tow vehicle.

quote:Originally posted by Mac

This is just a question to all after Steve's post above. If you had such a problem with a brand of vehicle of any kind why would you purchase another?


mac

In reality, the buy back program has a couple of options. The best one is to exchange your current vehicle for a brand new one. The exchange must be for a identical model although the options may vary. So if you have a 250 Crew Cab 2WD you get a new 250 Crew Cab 2WD. The second option is when you want to change models. In that case you will pay the difference between the MSRP of your old vehicle and the new one. No discounts other than "financing rebate" (if available - which is isn't currently). So if you wanted to give up your 250 2WD and get a 350 4WD, be prepared to bring around $10 - 15K with you depending on what you have currently. In either case, you will be assessed a "usage fee" as described by Steve and Brenda.

The main reason to make the exchange is to improve your position. A 2004 250 6.0L PSD (with little warranty left) is worth significantly less money than a new 2008 250 6.4L PSD. It doesn't cost you anything (ignoring the "usage fee") to make the exchange (assuming similar options), you have a new warranty and any Service Plan you have starts over. In addition, FORD will ensure post-delivery installed equipment (i.e fifth wheel hitch) is moved from the old vehicle to the new one.

Once you make the exchange, you can do what ever you want with the new vehicle. Keep it, trade it, donate it to a worthy cause, whatever. I am not a big fan of the 6.0L PSD. But there are a lot of folks here who have haven't had a problem with one. The 6.4L PSD is still too new to know if it is a keeper or not. A similar argument could be made about the Chevy/GM or Dodge motors too.

There are various features that I want/need that Chevy/GM and Dodge don't have. That is why I bought a FORD in the first case. I hope the new 6.4L PSD is a much improved motor, else I will be trading a 2008 6.4L PSD (instead of 2004) in on a Cummins or a Duramax. (Note to Dick (Chevy) and Robbie (Dodge) - don't hold your breath :-) )

Carl (& Susan) Youngren - Signing the paperwork tomorrow.

[Mac]

I was different, I knew I was going to lose money by trading it in but there was no way I would have settled for the same brand that I had before. I wouldn't have cared if it were Chevy, Ford or Dodge. Once burnt is twice learnt.

mac

[sailer]

Ozz the big thing is as i said all work has to be done in one state so if you were laid up across the state line you also need 30 days in that stat also john

[Carl n Susan]

quote:Originally posted by sailer

Ozz the big thing is as i said all work has to be done in one state so if you were laid up across the state line you also need 30 days in that stat also john

My experience is different. This truck has been worked on in CA (home dealer), WA, and OR. It currently is in OR getting a new motor (a process which started in WA). I sure don't have 30 days out of service in each state. But then again, my exchange isn't based on it being out of service for an extended time.

Carl (& Susan) Youngren

[CmdrDewey]

The Missouri Lemon Law is found in Title 26, Chapter 407. Following are what I take to be the most pertinent sections. I think this is no slam dunk but the reader can make their own conclusions. I believe (but haven't researched it,) that most states have similar laws.

407.569. Affirmative defenses.

It shall be an affirmative defense to any claim under sections 407.560 to 407.579 that:

(1) An alleged nonconformity does not substantially impair the use, market value, or safety of the motor vehicle;

(2) A nonconformity is the result of abuse, neglect, or unauthorized modifications or alterations of a motor vehicle;

(3) A claim by a consumer was not filed in good faith; or

(4) Any other affirmative defense allowed by law.

(L. 1984 H.B. 992 § 4 subsec. 3)

407.567. Replacement of motor vehicle or refund of purchase price, when--allowance deducted for consumer's use--reimbursement, when, application for.

1. If the manufacturer, through its authorized dealer or its agent, cannot conform the new motor vehicle to any applicable express warranty by repairing or correcting any default or condition which impairs the use, market value, or safety of the new motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer shall, at its option, either replace the new motor vehicle with a comparable new vehicle acceptable to the consumer, or take title of the vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price, including all reasonably incurred collateral charges, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle. The subtraction of a reasonable allowance for use shall apply when either a replacement or refund of the new motor vehicle occurs.

2. Refunds shall be made to the consumer and lienholder of record, if any, as their interests may appear.

407.571. Presumptions of nonconformity--exception.

It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if within the terms, conditions, or limitations of the express warranty, or during the period of one year following the date of original delivery of the new motor vehicle to a consumer, whichever expires earlier, either:

(1) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer, or its agents, and such nonconformity continues to exist; or

(2) The new vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of the nonconformity by the manufacturer, through its authorized dealer or its agents, for a cumulative total of thirty or more working days, exclusive of down time for routine maintenance as prescribed by the manufacturer, since delivery of the new vehicle to the consumer. The thirty-day period may be extended by a period of time during which repair services are not available to the consumer because of conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents.

(L. 1984 H.B. 992 § 4 subsec. 4)

[Ozz]

Thanks, Dave. That is a good refrence to the law. Should not be a problem, as I see it.
I hope your TV is chugging along with no problems.

[hazmic]

Makes me like my 7.3 more then ever. Dealers sure do want the old motor trucks. I,like others are watching the 6.4 and the Dodge 6.7. Waiting to see how OZZ comes out on this.

[Leaseit]

Ozz, Sorry your going throught the nightmare. Hope it all comes out ok, but, somewhere in there do i hear SportChassis by Freightliner. OK i'll make it easy, WWW.SPORTCHASSIS.COM Now all ou have to do is pick out the color.

[Ozz]

OH Mamma! Where would I put my ladder?
That is a nice truck.
Thanks to all for the good wishes, now if I could just get my lawyer to return my phone calls........

[skypilot]

He's too busy digging himself out from the paperwork you sent him

[Ozz]